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The current state of the game certainly seems to favor shooting over assaults. I think GW can reign this in a bit with the Black Templars, by creating a viable assault-oriented army.

One big problem assault-based armies face these days is making it to the enemy. There aren't a lot of assault transports out there that don't cost an arm and a leg. By creating an assault-variant of the rhino, GW could give the Black Templars a very cool / fluffy way to get stuck in via transport without forcing the player to pick up a Land Raider. Imagine a Rhino with an assault ramp offset to either side of the front end.

Another idea would be to provide a fair number of affordable storm shields to the crusader squads. This would allow large footslogging squads to march across the field without being pulverized by pie plate AP2/3 or the dreaded Hell Turkey. This too would be fluffy and fun to model.

These are two simple ways to create a viable assault based, fluffy army that can compete, encouraging a little more choppy in a world of Dakka.

FootlooseJarl wrote:

Another idea would be to provide a fair number of affordable storm shields to the crusader squads. This would allow large footslogging squads to march across the field without being pulverized by pie plate AP2/3 or the dreaded Hell Turkey. This too would be fluffy and fun to model.

"Affordable" Storm Shields to your main Troop choice is not happening for obvious reasons.

I could see them giving all BT a 6+ invun or something along those lines

I'd like something along the lines of "Black templars may choose to automatically run 6 inches in the shooting phase. If this ability is not used, they may run and charge in the same turn."

Gives them a kind of horde of "honed warriors charging forward" feel, rather than packing them in transports. When I think black Templars, I think marines with broadswords, charging across the field without fear.

Could also give them something along the lines of "Feel no pain, if they number more than 10." to represent this blind rush without fear, singularly focused on meeting the enemy in combat, but once their numbers drop too low, they will "come to their senses" a little, and not merely waste their lives.

Or heck, assault-rapid fire bolters.

Emperor's champion should have the same ability as the grey knight brother-captain, the one where if he dies, he can take a test, to heroically take his enemy down with him.

On one of the Faeit rumor lists it said that they no longer get the righteous zeal movement but would instead take overwatch wounds AFTER their assault attacks were resolved.

This would definitely make the assault much stronger.

I would also like a thunderfire cannon.

I would like the emperors champion to not be mandatory and be a actual HQ choice that can be your warlord. It can be annoying sometimes to realize you have dumped 300pts in HQ alone due to the fact that you have to get a second HQ.

Make sword brethren good and not just limited overpriced marines.

FootlooseJarl wrote:
The current state of the game certainly seems to favor shooting over assaults. I think GW can reign this in a bit with the Black Templars, by creating a viable assault-oriented army.

You are correct, 6th favors shooting, and we can certainly assume GW did this on purpose, so what makes you think they want to reign it in?

 KillerSkivil wrote:
I could see them giving all BT a 6+ invun or something along those lines

This already in the rules. It's one of the Emperor's Champion's vows.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All Templars really need is a points adjustment to make them around the same as other Marine chapters. All the obsolete rules have been dealt with, so no arguing about what Last Man Standing means.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kiggler wrote:
I would like the emperors champion to not be mandatory and be a actual HQ choice that can be your warlord. It can be annoying sometimes to realize you have dumped 300pts in HQ alone due to the fact that you have to get a second HQ.

Make sword brethren good and not just limited overpriced marines.

These are two unique units to the Templar army, why take them out?

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:

FootlooseJarl wrote:
The current state of the game certainly seems to favor shooting over assaults. I think GW can reign this in a bit with the Black Templars, by creating a viable assault-oriented army.

You are correct, 6th favors shooting, and we can certainly assume GW did this on purpose, so what makes you think they want to reign it in?

Because they are releasing assault oriented armies that heavily lean on assault or almost exclusively lean on assault? Black Templars, Blood Angels, Space Wolves (I think fluff wise at least), Dark Eldar, ORKS, Tyranids, CSM (ever so slightly), and Chaos Daemons. I'd also argue that GK are relatively favourable of assault at least in conception.

Quite a bit of armies that lean on assault it seems. Whilst CSM kinda struggle to do it, Chaos Daemons seem to do relatively well using beasts and FMC to wreck into the enemy cause damage and deepstrike in CC units. They'll probably give BT something to help them assault.

FootlooseJarl wrote:
The current state of the game certainly seems to favor shooting over assaults. I think GW can reign this in a bit with the Black Templars, by creating a viable assault-oriented army.

One big problem assault-based armies face these days is making it to the enemy. There aren't a lot of assault transports out there that don't cost an arm and a leg. By creating an assault-variant of the rhino, GW could give the Black Templars a very cool / fluffy way to get stuck in via transport without forcing the player to pick up a Land Raider. Imagine a Rhino with an assault ramp offset to either side of the front end.

Another idea would be to provide a fair number of affordable storm shields to the crusader squads. This would allow large footslogging squads to march across the field without being pulverized by pie plate AP2/3 or the dreaded Hell Turkey. This too would be fluffy and fun to model.

These are two simple ways to create a viable assault based, fluffy army that can compete, encouraging a little more choppy in a world of Dakka.

Now you know how us Stealer armies feel now. At least you have transports, Nids do not. Problem is instead of playing the old way, try adapting and come up with new ways to play with the cards we are delt with? Yes I know BT is the oldest codex but try playing them a different way or at least a different way that your opponent thinks how they should be played.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 KillerSkivil wrote:
I could see them giving all BT a 6+ invun or something along those lines

This already in the rules. It's one of the Emperor's Champion's vows.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All Templars really need is a points adjustment to make them around the same as other Marine chapters. All the obsolete rules have been dealt with, so no arguing about what Last Man Standing means.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kiggler wrote:
I would like the emperors champion to not be mandatory and be a actual HQ choice that can be your warlord. It can be annoying sometimes to realize you have dumped 300pts in HQ alone due to the fact that you have to get a second HQ.

Make sword brethren good and not just limited overpriced marines.

These are two unique units to the Templar army, why take them out?

Not saying take them out, I actually think the emperors champion is really good for what he costs. I would just prefer if he could be your warlord. I like the idea of sword brethren but they need more weapon options or a special rule to justify taking them. The only advantage sword brethren get is the option to take some veteran skills which would put them over 20 points per model.

 Kiggler wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 KillerSkivil wrote:
I could see them giving all BT a 6+ invun or something along those lines

This already in the rules. It's one of the Emperor's Champion's vows.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All Templars really need is a points adjustment to make them around the same as other Marine chapters. All the obsolete rules have been dealt with, so no arguing about what Last Man Standing means.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kiggler wrote:
I would like the emperors champion to not be mandatory and be a actual HQ choice that can be your warlord. It can be annoying sometimes to realize you have dumped 300pts in HQ alone due to the fact that you have to get a second HQ.

Make sword brethren good and not just limited overpriced marines.

These are two unique units to the Templar army, why take them out?

Not saying take them out, I actually think the emperors champion is really good for what he costs. I would just prefer if he could be your warlord. I like the idea of sword brethren but they need more weapon options or a special rule to justify taking them. The only advantage sword brethren get is the option to take some veteran skills which would put them over 20 points per model.

I concur. I'd love to see the Emperor's Champion buffed to be more survivable (or even being a warlord!), picking a unique warlord trait to boost the whole army.
The Sword Brethren could be fixed by giving them +1 WS and/or BS, +1 A, and a leadership of 9. THEN They'd become useful. 2-Wounded models of SB would also sound fascinating - they'd actually become a threat, and a worthy invest of points. I believe, should they keep the Sword Brethren in the possible upcoming codex, they could get bonuses in close combat, according to their gear - like Grey Knights.
Rhino with an Assault Vehicle special rule would sound brilliant for the crusader army... or if is open-topped...

Let's just hope wish that they keep the Templars alive and won't kill 'em with a White Dwarf "update", or assimilate them into the C:SM book.

For some reason, Black Templars on bikes with lances and power swords and shields sound appealing to me. Like Knights on horseback kinda deal.

Make the Emperor's Champion customisable. I want to be able to make him anything from a slightly souped-up Sergeant to Death, Destroyer of Worlds who farts flaming chain axes and fires beams of concentrated Grimdark (TM) from his eyes at the enemies of the Emperor.

Another idea I've had (shameless self-plug ) is to allow Templars to have one-wound Chaplains as their version of the unit-buffer Character that seems to be up in all the new Codices.

Yet another thing I've been toying with is how to make the rules reflect the fact that the Templars prefer Drop Pod Assaults. Letting Sword Brethren perform Disordered Charges or something similar out of Drop Pods could do that.

Another yet another idea is to let Templars consolidate into combat once a turn, counting as a Disordered Charge.

I'd make sword brethren super elite, like WS5 and 2 wounds and all that jazz, these guys are veterans even by SM standard. But keep the ability to choose veteran skills, because thats cool.

Reign in the points costs, buff the HQ stats (WS/BS to 6th ed standards), give our marines grenades for free.

Give us some awesome standards, a hatred banner, a +1 A banner. Lots of units with Crusader.

 Wilytank wrote:

FootlooseJarl wrote:

Another idea would be to provide a fair number of affordable storm shields to the crusader squads. This would allow large footslogging squads to march across the field without being pulverized by pie plate AP2/3 or the dreaded Hell Turkey. This too would be fluffy and fun to model.

"Affordable" Storm Shields to your main Troop choice is not happening for obvious reasons.

You’re right, that would never happen. What if you could get a model with a storm shield and a power weapon for ~15 points as a Troops choice? Games Workshop would never do something that wild and crazy *cough* henchmen *cough*

I was thinking more along the lines of upgrade x number of templars to carry a shield. With 6th edition's wound allocation this would create some fun options for model placement within the squad.

FootlooseJarl wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:

FootlooseJarl wrote:

Another idea would be to provide a fair number of affordable storm shields to the crusader squads. This would allow large footslogging squads to march across the field without being pulverized by pie plate AP2/3 or the dreaded Hell Turkey. This too would be fluffy and fun to model.

"Affordable" Storm Shields to your main Troop choice is not happening for obvious reasons.

You’re right, that would never happen. What if you could get a model with a storm shield and a power weapon for ~15 points as a Troops choice? Games Workshop would never do something that wild and crazy *cough* henchmen *cough*

I was thinking more along the lines of upgrade x number of templars to carry a shield. With 6th edition's wound allocation this would create some fun options for model placement within the squad.

Difference is those henchmen are I3, T3, WS3 and i think only have a 5+ save otherwise with no assault grenades.

Well they could add the storm shield/power weapon to the equipment list of troops.

So for every ten marines, two units may replace their bp/ccw with a power weapon and a storm shield for 20/25 points.

I dont think that would be too absurd, and actually it may not even be that useful if it gets in the way of bringing a melta or a flamer.

edit: make it separate from the ranged weapon updates.

So two units may replace their bp/ccw with flamer/melta/plasmagun
Two different units may replace their bp/ccw with power weapon storm shield.

That would be expensive when you are looking at making 4 marine additions to each 10man squad. or hopefully 8 for each 20man squad.

Two things would make the BT better: Count Rhinos and Razorbacks as Assault Vehicles, consolidate into combat... give them that, and assault is back!

Or give a special HQ choice that allows the squad he joins to assault from a drop pod

Or make it a Vow. That'd be rather interesting actually, make one Vow allow Disordered Charges for non-Troops units in Drop Pods (might get a tad overboard otherwise), make another allow consolidation into combat once per turn, let one buff Righteous Zeal moves and so on. Have several different options to get into CC, but don't allow them all at the same time to avoid some crazy stuff.

Can we just have AW write the BTbook?

Hopefully something like vanguard vets, or making the sword brotheren be able to come from reserves and shoot or assault.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Can we just have AW write the BTbook?

Oh, if only...

A lot of these suggestions lead me to believe that BT whinge folk should just play GK

Bigfashizzel wrote:
A lot of these suggestions lead me to believe that BT whinge folk should just play GK

Dirty Psykers