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Lynata, the quote itself in your thread says "nearly 1000 years", It's silly to nitpick a +/- of only a few years.

It's not a "silly nitpick" if it can serve to avoid an apparent contradiction constructed out of circumstantial interpretation.

I'm not saying that you couldn't simply disregard the 6E Rulebook - 40k fluff is all about personal interpretation and preferences, after all, and I am cherrypicking for my own vision of the 41st millennium as well - but one should be aware of the sources that would go against one such interpretation, as well as that (in this case) the conflict may well be avoidable, even if ultimately they may not allow this to factor into their decision.

Even if you take this 5E quote about Lysander as gospel, then that statement is the odd man out and goes against material in 2E, 3E and 6E books. If you prefer it, stick to it, but don't think it is any more valid than the 1.100 years. It really is as simple as that.

If I recall correctly, he's in the realms of 1000 years old. He hasn't succumbed to the Black Rage through being too disciplined and stubborn to do so, and also because he believes that he is destined to fight alongside the Emperor at some point, and is therefore "hanging on" until then.

Yeah, I think there was a bit in the 5E Codex about how he knows he shouldn't have lived that long and how he's fighting to retain his sanity - but that it is his firm belief in him still having to play some sort of role in a pivotal event that keeps him going.

My guess is that this would be a perfect tie-in for his participation in the defense against Abbadon's 13th Black Crusade - but then again, this was probably left open for players to create their own pivotal events, such as a local campaign or whatever.

The pivotal event was a prophecy of a golden warrior defending the Emperor himself from his enemies.

Lots of people think that prophecy came to pass when Sanguinor died against Horus, but Dante thinks that golden warrior is supposed to be Dante, and thus keeps on living so he may one day fulfill that prophecy.

Now that almost sounds like a rare case of the Black Rage cancelling itself out.

As if part of him has already succumbed to the memory of their Primarch, yet another part of him refuses to acknowledge the details, thus allowing him to retain his personality and resulting in a self-fueling feeling that he has to keep resisting his Chapter's inherited psychosis in order to make this premonition come true.

Interesting.

 Lynata wrote:
Now that almost sounds like a rare case of the Black Rage cancelling itself out.

As if part of him has already succumbed to the memory of their Primarch, yet another part of him refuses to acknowledge the details, thus allowing him to retain his personality and resulting in a self-fueling feeling that he has to keep resisting his Chapter's inherited psychosis in order to make this premonition come true.

Interesting.

It sounds arrogant and a little lazy to me. As if GW wrote "1,100 years old." Someone says "OMG really how?!zzz"

"In the Grimdarkness of the far future, YOLO so why notz???"

Honestly it just sounds like a ten year old's fantasy. "Ma chaper master is so old cuz he gon save dah Emprah one day in his gold nipple pimp suit."

Whereas an educated or sophisticated background writer would just say "Geneseed did it, and got lucky not to be hit?"

 Deadshot wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
Now that almost sounds like a rare case of the Black Rage cancelling itself out.

As if part of him has already succumbed to the memory of their Primarch, yet another part of him refuses to acknowledge the details, thus allowing him to retain his personality and resulting in a self-fueling feeling that he has to keep resisting his Chapter's inherited psychosis in order to make this premonition come true.

Interesting.

It sounds arrogant and a little lazy to me. As if GW wrote "1,100 years old." Someone says "OMG really how?!zzz"

"In the Grimdarkness of the far future, YOLO so why notz???"

Honestly it just sounds like a ten year old's fantasy. "Ma chaper master is so old cuz he gon save dah Emprah one day in his gold nipple pimp suit."

Whereas an educated or sophisticated background writer would just say "Geneseed did it, and got lucky not to be hit?"

It's both?

Physically he's survived this long thanks to how the scions of Sanguinus are long lived, so long as they don't get killed by combat or the black rage.

MENTALLY (NOT to be confused with the Black Rage.... maybe), he's survived this long because he's determined to keep going until the prophecy is fulfilled. This is somewhat crucial because a lot of human minds would just snap and go crazy after one-thousand friggin' years of war war war WAAAAAR. By this point, perhaps even a space marine would scream and jump off a cliff (or rather, turn to Chaos).

Granted, while the latter is a typical narrative point for those writers who believe in the "Who wants to live forever?" trope, neither of the above two aspects are really addressed by other space marine fluff very much.

For example, we've yet to read about a normal space marine dying of old age, Blood Angel or not. Space Marines that get sick and tired of all the killing and fighting and going snap are rather rare, too (although I think not as rare as space marines dying of old age. Pretty sure it's stated that some Chaos Marines went renegade simply from all the pressure of the constant warfare finally making them basically say "OH WHATEVER.").

But despite the non-existance of Space Marines dying of old age in the fluff, Blood Angels having a long life span was "canon" for a looooong time, I think. Which is funny since it's like one half of Games Workshop's metaphorical brain has always said "Blood Angels live a long time!" without the other half begging the question, "Not including combat casualties, how long do Space Marines live, anyways?"

TiamatRoar wrote:It's both?
Physically he's survived this long thanks to how the scions of Sanguinus are long lived, so long as they don't get killed by combat or the black rage.
MENTALLY (NOT to be confused with the Black Rage.... maybe), he's survived this long because he's determined to keep going until the prophecy is fulfilled.

That's how I see it as well - although the mental state does seem to be connected to the Black Rage. When Blood Angels are more prone to falling victim to it the older they get, then Dante still resisting it whilst simultaneously being the oldest among them, then that makes him double-remarkable, so to say. His belief in "I've still got something to do" makes him cling unto sanity like a mountain climber hanging on to a ledge to avoid falling down. Even though he knows he'll fall eventually.

TiamatRoar wrote:This is somewhat crucial because a lot of human minds would just snap and go crazy after one-thousand friggin' years of war war war WAAAAAR. By this point, perhaps even a space marine would scream and jump off a cliff (or rather, turn to Chaos).

I have a feeling that the monastic lifestyle exists in part to help them cope with this situation, by making their days as repetetive as possible, in combination with hypno-indoctrination and the drug cocktail they have to take.
The authors likely didn't even consider this question (although it is said that the Dreadnoughts are shut down and put into stasis to prevent the interred minds from going crazy), but it's how I could imagine it to work.

TiamatRoar wrote:But despite the non-existance of Space Marines dying of old age in the fluff [...] Which is funny since it's like one half of Games Workshop's metaphorical brain has always said "Blood Angels live a long time!" without the other half begging the question, "Not including combat casualties, how long do Space Marines live, anyways?"

 Lynata wrote:
The 6E Rulebook mentions their natural lifespan to be two- to three times that of an average human being.

This - I'm sure I've seen it around before 6E as well. However, you also have to bear in mind that the lifespan of a *properly fed and looked after* human in the 41st millennium, like say an Inquisitor or Governor, is much more than it is now. Things like bionics and genetic modification only serve to further muddy this water.

Also, the Blood Angels' longevity has been canon (included in their Codex) aaaaaaaall the way back to 2nd edition, if not before.

Super Ready wrote:However, you also have to bear in mind that the lifespan of a *properly fed and looked after* human in the 41st millennium, like say an Inquisitor or Governor, is much more than it is now. Things like bionics and genetic modification only serve to further muddy this water.

Yes - but then again, personally I wouldn't call the rich nobility and cybernetically enhanced people or juvenat-recipients "average human beings".
I was thinking more along the lines of those poor dregs who get to work 18-hour-shifts in the polluted Hive manofactorium etc - which may well have shorter lifespans than today (but this being just as much of a guess I was thinking that 100 years would be a good benchmark, so 200-300 for Astartes ... the author of that line may well have been thinking about contemporary western world humans anyways, rather than the wildly varying living conditions in 40k).

This ties in with my thoughts about the juvenat treatments available to normal humans being related to the Marines' longevity (meaning, using the same medical/biotechnical principles), just that the latter have it by default whilst everyone else needs to receive it in addition. Or, who knows, it might even be the exact same thing, with the Marines receiving it as part of the drug cocktail they need to consume in order to prevent their overclocked bodies from going into shock.
Bah, theories.

Interesting extra I found yesterday. Chaplain Cassius is listed in the current Codex: Space Marines (y'know... the one that's valid for about another few breaths) as being the oldest *active* Ultramarine, at nearly "four centuries of service".
Couple the service with the few years he would have had before recruitment and I think it's safe to say he's either 400, or just over.

While he's also the oldest *active* Ultramarine, and to be fair he does look damn old and needs bionics to stay that way, it's also safe to assume from the distinction that he's also not *THE* oldest Ultramarine. So there are probably retired Marines performing training duties, etc. that are that little bit older.

So we're certainly over the 400 mark - but probably not by much.