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I am trying to find a replacement for the Crimson Hunter in my 1850 list, and at first i found Vypers very interesting. I could make them anything from a TEQ killer unit to a Anti infantry unit, then as a bonus I could add in the Crystal Targeting Matrix for an Alpha Strike against a vehicle or something. Then I realized that the unit is almost 200 points. For 200 points, I could get a full unit of Warp Spiders or a Crimson Hunter Exarch with Night Fighting.

For some reason, Vypers+CTM with perhaps an EML (for versatility) is still tempting me. Has anyone tried out the new Vypers? How has their performance been? My list right now is a big bowl of Saim-Hann+ Wraithknight with two Jetbike Farseers for HQs, I'm thinking Vypers could be great with Guide, but if they aren't guided, those few shots they have might not do the damage I want them to.

I've liked 3 vypers all with scatter lasers and shuriken cannons, it's a lot of very mobile tl s6 shots.
But I haven't tried many other builds yet.

I''ll preface this by saying I'm not a fan of the unit.

Vehicle upgrades on Vypers and War Walkers are really hard to justify because those upgrades are priced for much more expensive base AV12 skimmers. The CTM is perhaps the only one with a chance, because it only applies to a single weapon anyway, but consider that Vypers using a CTM are probably doomed. So you're paying 85 points for 4 S6 shots into rear armor. Then the Vyper blows up.

Consider that a Falcon with a CTM is hugely more durable and gets 2 S8 AP2 shots after moving flat out. A Wave Serpent can do the same trick with a twin-linked version of any Vyper weapon or with an average of 4.5 S7 shots. A Night Spinner can lay down a torrent template.

Also, if your HS slots aren't full War Walkers seem to be a whole lot better. They're cheaper, can move just about as far before firing, have the option of instead moving after they fire, and can outflank or get a scout move (comparable to the Vyper's ability to move flat out to gain position turn 1).

I would guess that the overall best way to take Vypers is in squads of at least 2, with 2x Shuriken Cannons, and Guide support. Even before Guide, you're getting about twice the 12-24" firepower of the same points in WRJs. But the squad isn't that expensive and if they do die you can move on to Guide something else, and you're matching the default WW.

pantsonhead wrote:
I''ll preface this by saying I'm not a fan of the unit.

Vehicle upgrades on Vypers and War Walkers are really hard to justify because those upgrades are priced for much more expensive base AV12 skimmers. The CTM is perhaps the only one with a chance, because it only applies to a single weapon anyway, but consider that Vypers using a CTM are probably doomed. So you're paying 85 points for 4 S6 shots into rear armor. Then the Vyper blows up.

Consider that a Falcon with a CTM is hugely more durable and gets 2 S8 AP2 shots after moving flat out. A Wave Serpent can do the same trick with a twin-linked version of any Vyper weapon or with an average of 4.5 S7 shots. A Night Spinner can lay down a torrent template.

Also, if your HS slots aren't full War Walkers seem to be a whole lot better. They're cheaper, can move just about as far before firing, have the option of instead moving after they fire, and can outflank or get a scout move (comparable to the Vyper's ability to move flat out to gain position turn 1).

I would guess that the overall best way to take Vypers is in squads of at least 2, with 2x Shuriken Cannons, and Guide support. Even before Guide, you're getting about twice the 12-24" firepower of the same points in WRJs. But the squad isn't that expensive and if they do die you can move on to Guide something else, and you're matching the default WW.

Hate to be lazy...

But what he said

Vypers are inferior to war walkers in everyway..
Except speed,

I think they would do really well in situation were a WW couldn't keep up with your army/ outmanuever the enemy.
ie- Apocalypse, 200pts is pretty cheap in a game like that, and being able to get right in behind is something that would surprise a lesser opponent or keep an experienced player more defensive than they'd like to be with some of their units..

Or even just playing on a large map than normal..
A 1250pt match on 9+ squares is actually a lot of fun and forces you to think a lot more tactically with both list building and play style... In a standard 40k game/board.. There are better options

Strayan wrote:
Vypers are inferior to war walkers in everyway..
Except speed,

Even then, the benefits of taking Vypers are very slight. Walkers have battlefocus and fleet, meaning that they can average about 10'' /turn, while the Vypers move 12'' and then shoot. Instead of a jink save, Walkers have a 5++, and can battle focus behind ruins, so the walkers are even more survivable.

The way I see it, you should only take Vypers if you're solely looking at playing a fluffy Saim-hann list, or you've run out of HS slots.

There's basically two reasons to take Vypers

1. Want to make a fluffy army list (Saim Hann for example)

2. You have no HS slots left for War Walkers and don't like the other FA options.

Shame really, feels like another unit that was pants in 5th and they haven't made much attempt to fix it.

Edit: Just realised the last posts said almost exactly the same thing

 shamikebab wrote:
There's basically two reasons to take Vypers

1. Want to make a fluffy army list (Saim Hann for example)

2. You have no HS slots left for War Walkers and don't like the other FA options.

Shame really, feels like another unit that was pants in 5th and they haven't made much attempt to fix it.

Edit: Just realised the last posts said almost exactly the same thing

Basically this.

The Vyper is too expensive for what it does. If it were cheaper, I would think it would be a competitive option to the War Walker (different slot, but the firepower type is similar).

The only reason I have a Vyper is to model it as a Farseer Jetbike.

I did look at using them, but point-cost and alternatives meant they stayed in the box.

I agree with the other posters. I will say this, though. War walkers are definitely the obvious choice, and for good reason. But Vypers offer tactics War walkers don't, because of their maneuverability. Games are won by more than just shooting the crap out of the opponent's army.

That said, it's a larger issue that Vypers take the same slot as Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks. So they can't fit into my army. But a Saim-hann army where they support the jetbikes in razor-sharp flank-denial tactics, they're more useful than WWs, imho.

Thanks for the replies! In my list I have filled up my HS slots, 3 War Walkers (two BLs), a Fire Prism, and a Wraithknight.

I was torn between Vypers and Warp Spiders. I'll give both a go eventually, but first I'm going to try Vypers with Shuriken Cannons and Starcannons. I like the AP2 of the Starcannons. Of course, they could fail and die instantly, but we'll see. That unit will put out 15 shots, 6 at AP2, and 9 that can be AP2. The added range means that the unit can deal damage from further away.

It'll be interesting to see how this works. I've got a friend who is taking his Tau to NOVA open in august, so this'll be a good test for his list and my vypers.

I see vypers having use in a list with Artillery as it's heavy choices. Eldar Artillery is cheap..and the Vyper's make up for the lack of War Walkers if you go this route. I own 4 vypers and have yet to use them as my playing time has been reduced a lot lately. I plan on trying them out at some point in the future.

 McNinja wrote:
Thanks for the replies! In my list I have filled up my HS slots, 3 War Walkers (two BLs), a Fire Prism, and a Wraithknight.

I was torn between Vypers and Warp Spiders. I'll give both a go eventually, but first I'm going to try Vypers with Shuriken Cannons and Starcannons. I like the AP2 of the Starcannons. Of course, they could fail and die instantly, but we'll see. That unit will put out 15 shots, 6 at AP2, and 9 that can be AP2. The added range means that the unit can deal damage from further away.

It'll be interesting to see how this works. I've got a friend who is taking his Tau to NOVA open in august, so this'll be a good test for his list and my vypers.

Go the spiders... Hands down.. Every time...
I may or may not be biased...
But seriously my brother and I played a 750 game.. One squad of 6 took out 400 points over two turns because he underestimated their speed... They have been a auto-include ever since (even on the days an entire army aims for them because of their reputation)

I know mercer has run them, I believe 2 units of 2 with dual Shuriken Cannons.

He has several recent battle reports that feature them; check them out.

I wouldn't compare them to warwalkers, because you shouldn't take them unless you already maxed you heavy support.
I like the idea of 9 war walkers and 9 vypers. It dumps out a stupid amount of firepower.

Only if they upgraded Vypers to Hornets... No open toped and AV11 for a slight price increase.

Vypers are not a bad unit the problem is there are better unit to take first. As every one and there dog has said warwalkers are a better weapons platform. This is because they can take lots of different pairs of matching weapons, where as the Vyper can only take a matched pair of Shuriken Cannons.

If you actually compare the a basic warwalker and a vyper with shuriken cannon upgrade the Vyper is technically better. The war walker can move 6+run each turn and the vyper can move 12" (+18 if it gives up on shooting). WW has a 5++ invulnerable save and if the Vyper moves it has a 5+ Jink save.

If only they had the same weapons options I'm sure we'd see more of them.