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I've had pretty good tournament experience with my orks against relatively power-gamery lists (7-2 in the last 3 tournaments combined) but In my last tournament played a Tau list in my first game I had my worst loss in ~3 years (this was one of my two losses while other was against a standard nid net list).

I brought (1750):
Bikerboss w/ 6 Nob Bikers
2x20 boys in battlewagons
2x9 lootas
grots on ADL
dakka jet
3 deff koptas

He had:
Commander
Ethereal
2 Riptides
3x20 kroot
8 pathfinders
skyray
3 missle broodsides with ~6 missle drones

combined with eldar allies
farseer on a bike
2x3 jetbikes

His commander would use signature systems to twinlink/ignore cover his missle sides who would then delete 1 unit per turn. His farseer cast the divination power that gives his unit counterattack and overwatch at full ballistic skill. Combined with supporting fire I would be screwed on a charge. I could have drawn primary for the mission if it wasn't for a late game crazy bad dice roll but I had no shot at the rest of the game. We got through about 4 turns and I had ~ 300 points remaining to his 1500.

I'm not looking as much for list tailoring. I realize his list would pound horde/light armor. Meganobs in battlewagons are the obvious answer if I was tailoring specifically for his list. But I'm not super likely to draw tau THAT reguarly. I just want to know what to do if I run into something like this.

Post game I considering moving battlewagons forward/ flatouting and screening off my nob bikers from LOS. His missle drones could still blast me but the broodsides couldn't themselves at least. I would be sacrificing the battlewagons but maybe it could at least get me into combat (at which point he would get crushed.

I'm curious what (if anything) I'm supposed to be doing tactically to combat a list like this.

Hmmm well if kommandos could still outflank and assualt id say try that. Stormboys with zagstruk still can. You lose d3 boys plus however many die to overwatch but might be worth the try. could at least take out the broadsides or the pathfinders if they havent been buffed. try dropping them down between 2 or three jucy targets to give you some choice perhaps.

I'm very interested in this because I run a necron flyer list and tau (even when they are the ally) just shred me - it's not very pretty. So I started looking for a counter to the riptide+broadsides+commander ally I see a lot. One thing I'm considering is in your face orks. I don't have a lot of orks but I do have a trukk, a battlewagon, three bikers, a bunch of boys, a big mek w/KFF, and a dakkajet. Basically they're holding the ground and are the only things on the board. I haven't tried this yet but the plan is to hide them turn one and when my flyers start coming in on turn two run the orks in at full speed. Hammer and anvil will kill me but the other two deployments should be ok.

I think you need to get an ally until your new codex comes out. Unfortunately you suffer from the same problem my crons have. No battle brothers which means no one going to be casting prescience on your 20 boys with shootas :(

My other choice for an ally is tau. Two can play at this game...

Have you tried putting your biker boss in with your deffkoptas and scouting them? IIRC the deffkoptas give scout to any IC that joins them, allowing the boss to go for a turn 1 charge.

Scout does transfer over, thats a free 12" movement since they move same speed. Ive done it a few times, however against tau with the whole supporting fire thing i'd advise against that unles you spot a riptide or something you can charge. He wont have FNP, thats a big thing, but he'll have the 3 koptas to soak up overwatch and all you need to do is get that boss to the riptide and he will eat it. 6attacks on the charge with an attack squig hitting on 3s wounding on 2s isnt pretty.

However the list he has tells me hes castling up. If he sees the bikerboss is with the koptas and knows about the scout thing, he will fan his kroot will just make a big long line that koptas can fly over but the boss wont.

Slapping in your own riptide with a buffmander would work actually. HBC with twinlink/ignore cover/tank or monster hunter is very deadly. It would eat any vehicles he brings, tear apart drones/FW/kroot, and put some heat on suits. IA would also be good as it would paste broadsides and discourage castling....actually that might be better

That single dakkajet should just go away btw. One dakkajet isnt that much of a threat to begin with, and tau always have air answers even without skyfire purchased. I wouldnt even run 3 against tau, as missilesides alone would take them down before they did anything. Additional bikernobz and/or lootas would help more. Ive started taking 1-2 naked nobz (50pts each, since they still have the invul) for my bikernobz because thats 2-4 additional hard as hell to get rid of wounds.

Scout does confer to the warboss, but if you scout you can not charge.

Ty for advice thus far.

I'm looking for ingame tactics though. NOT list tailoring. This isn't a planned 1v1 game against Tau. This is what if I draw a Tau opponent with a balanced list. I do realize that I need to adjust for current meta etc., but there were maybe 1-2 Tau players per 20. The odds of drawing one isn't even all that high. I just want to know what to do when it happens.

I did do a bit of research myself and kroot don't have supporting fire (I thought every unit in the codex did). This makes me feel a lot better about rushing an army like this even if he blasted me pretty hard first round.

Had he not rolled overwatch at full ballistic skill power I think I would be in a vastly different situation as well.

I recently played a Tau player that did the whole 'bunch in the corner and roll dice to see how many things die'. It wasn't fun and it wasn't a game but what i tried was, like you suggested, make a screen on Battlewagons (i had 3) with Nob Bikers and Bikerboss hiding behind. He popped a Battlewagon each turn no dramas and many many boyz suffered 3rd degree burns BUT the minute my Nobz charged him all hell broke loose. Boss broke off and Nobz multi-assaulted what they could. I managed to almost wipe him out with that one unit. Unfortunately he split off some fire warriors when it was obvious my Nobz would devour him. Eventually I ran out of things to headbutt and he shot what was left of the bikers. Something in reserve like a trukk or some stormboyz or something may have come on to save the day by attacking the Firewarriors but I had nothing left except 1 lobba and it missed YAY!

Honestly it looks stupid having Nobz tucked inside a wall of battlewagons like that but what else can you do? I dreamed of a double six with my SAG pie plate on his compacted army but being an my only AP2 gun he ate a railgun bolt for breakfast and did nothing. At least it was better than 2000 points in 1 square foot and just rolling dice till I die. I fail to see how that is enjoyable for anyone.

Hypnotic wrote:
I recently played a Tau player that did the whole 'bunch in the corner and roll dice to see how many things die'. It wasn't fun and it wasn't a game but what i tried was, like you suggested, make a screen on Battlewagons (i had 3) with Nob Bikers and Bikerboss hiding behind. He popped a Battlewagon each turn no dramas and many many boyz suffered 3rd degree burns BUT the minute my Nobz charged him all hell broke loose. Boss broke off and Nobz multi-assaulted what they could. I managed to almost wipe him out with that one unit. Unfortunately he split off some fire warriors when it was obvious my Nobz would devour him. Eventually I ran out of things to headbutt and he shot what was left of the bikers. Something in reserve like a trukk or some stormboyz or something may have come on to save the day by attacking the Firewarriors but I had nothing left except 1 lobba and it missed YAY!

Honestly it looks stupid having Nobz tucked inside a wall of battlewagons like that but what else can you do? I dreamed of a double six with my SAG pie plate on his compacted army but being an my only AP2 gun he ate a railgun bolt for breakfast and did nothing. At least it was better than 2000 points in 1 square foot and just rolling dice till I die. I fail to see how that is enjoyable for anyone.

Some people just like rolling dice i suppose.

But the trouble I had with Tau is their jump-shoot-jump. they would pop up, get me excited about assaulting, then jump back behind cover. After playing tau with my orks, I realize a lot the battle is prioritizing targets, and making sure you can get there. If you go second. really think about your deployment. After my last game I realized I could have done a lot better if I had been a little more careful in my placement. Take advantage of every save you can get, and only expose yourself when you are about to eliminate his units.

But if everything is in 1 square foot, then yeah it's charge behind whatever cover you have and work things out that way.

This certainly seems like a very tough match-up to counter. The only thing I can see is to spread out your Boyz as far as possible and rush him, but you still have Riptides to worry about.

To be honest, I know you are reluctant to change your list, but I don't think it is as TAC as you might think. You have incredibly low numbers for Orks IMO, and could really use a Big Mek in there for cover.

Just remember, the Kroot might not have supporting fire but, the units backing them up still will, so thats the kroot overwatch and then some from behind. Also remember that only the 4 TLshots from smart missiles ignore cover and LoS, The rest of the broadsides missiles and the missile drones still need to see things to hit them.

Also, fire warriors will die horribly in melee, for some reason, suits tend to do much better and often surprise me by killing way more in melee than i ever thought they could. Honestly a melee option for them to take would be cool but so not Tau. Kroot will do pretty will in melee vs orks because they are ap5. I watched a unit of 10 destroy a unit of 20 shootas.

However, any dedicated melee awesomeness, will absolutely wreck tau face. Just remember to multi-assault and hide as much as possible in cover. If you get lucky enough for there to be a lot of LoS blocking terrain then just stay outta sight. if he can kill you he cant take those objectives by staying castled. You just have to position to pounce when the opportunity arrives

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
This certainly seems like a very tough match-up to counter. The only thing I can see is to spread out your Boyz as far as possible and rush him, but you still have Riptides to worry about.

To be honest, I know you are reluctant to change your list, but I don't think it is as TAC as you might think. You have incredibly low numbers for Orks IMO, and could really use a Big Mek in there for cover.

Maybe this is the answer to an extent. I know there is a bit of a RPS effect to 40k and I can accept that.

What about the list isn't TAC? I do realize I have low bodies but I have 3 pretty resilient troops (when you factor in the battlewagons) as well as a backfield scoring unit (grots). I would maybe like a 5th troop but I feel like my list does pretty well in objective games as well as good denying killpoints. I do think certain aspects of foot ork lists can be great it's also extremely difficult to play a green tide list in a timed environment.

I disagree about the KFF Big Mek. I realize he's a popular choice but getting cover is extremely easy to get (I'm playing on standard board with standard terrain loadouts.) I think the points are better spent elsewhere. Especially in this case and with ignore cover becoming more popular

Wolfnid420 wrote:
Just remember, the Kroot might not have supporting fire but, the units backing them up still will, so thats the kroot overwatch and then some from behind. Also remember that only the 4 TLshots from smart missiles ignore cover and LoS, The rest of the broadsides missiles and the missile drones still need to see things to hit them.

Also, fire warriors will die horribly in melee, for some reason, suits tend to do much better and often surprise me by killing way more in melee than i ever thought they could. Honestly a melee option for them to take would be cool but so not Tau. Kroot will do pretty will in melee vs orks because they are ap5. I watched a unit of 10 destroy a unit of 20 shootas.

However, any dedicated melee awesomeness, will absolutely wreck tau face. Just remember to multi-assault and hide as much as possible in cover. If you get lucky enough for there to be a lot of LoS blocking terrain then just stay outta sight. if he can kill you he cant take those objectives by staying castled. You just have to position to pounce when the opportunity arrives

I assume its optimal that if possible just to charge the Misslesides that way I can avoid the extra overwatch?

It should be noted that tau can easily ignore cover as well

The scouted warboss is allowed to assault turn 1 if you go second, its in the rulebook FAQ.

The big thing about tau ignoring cover is they typically cannot do this to more than 1 unit without the buffmander tactic to add another target. Often in the case of Riptides in my experience, if my markerlights wiffed their shots or something shot them to lower numbers, i would rather up myself to BS5/6 than add ignore cover since if i miss then no saves are taken period. Every time i say "No, that cover is 4+ i have to strip it" i miss because i didnt have enough to up my BS as well as strip cover.

Personally, i hate using marker lights to strip cover. I make less shots by a longshot (pun intended) unless i get a bunch (4+) marks on a single unit...which rarely happens unless im running a Mark'O and successfully keep him out of harms way when its not my turn (incidentally that group draws way more firepower than pathfinders lol). Forcing me to strip cover is better than you think. If you play like i'll just remove any cover at all so you dont even bother, you play right into my hands.
Thats why if my orks ever face Tau im not hesitating to bring a KFF. That way, either he lets me make my saves or has less shots in the average situation. Either way, it helps me more than not taking the KFF at all.

athedge wrote:
The scouted warboss is allowed to assault turn 1 if you go second, its in the rulebook FAQ.

Confirmed. Same with infiltrate. But the problem is unless I could scout them behind LOS blocking terrain right in front of his lines (very unlikely). He shouldn't have too much trouble destroying them if they are within short range.

FWIW the terrain deployment we utilize is ~8 pieces on the table of varying sizes and each player alternates placing one. It has to be ~4-6" from the board edge as well as from other terrain pieces. You have to place the majority of the terrain piece in your table half (not just deployment zone). It works out pretty well actually. I am still learning how to best utilize this.

I might be able to get a big LOS blocking one out there next time and hide behind that. Smart missles would still get me but at least the HYMP/other supporting fire couldn't. Also his chances of overwatch @ full BS are only ~33% (took guide off eldar table first).

6 missle drones + 3 broodsides= 24 BS 2 and 12 BS 3? smart missle shots = 8 hits and 6 hits = 14 hits = 7 wounds = 3.5 failed saves = 2.36 unsaved wounds after FNP (1 dead Nob biker). Not too bad

if they are guided. 24 BS 2 and 12 BS 3= 8 hits and 6 hits (first round) and an additional 5.33 and 3 hits (from rerolls) = 22.33 hits = 11.166 wounds = 5.08 failed saves = 3.38 unsaved wounds after FNP. Again much more manageable. It doesn't mitigate the overwatch situation but it at least keeps them on the board.

terrain placement ftw?

I have found this list works well as a TAC list no forgeworld it gets modified for forgeworld allowed runs..

1750
Bikerboss/PK,Cyb,BP,Attack Squig

Big Mek/KFF,Eavy,Cyb,BP
12 Burna Boyz (3 are Meks,KMB)
9 Lootas
9 Lootas
20 Shoota Boyz/Nob,Big Shoota,PK,BP,Eavy
20 Shoota Boyz/Nob,Big Shoota,PK,BP,Eavy

Battle Wagon/DR,BS,RPJ (Shoota Boyz)
Battle Wagon/DR,BS,RPJ (BM+Burna's)
Battle Wagon/DR,BS,RPJ (Shoota Boyz)

5 Deffkoptas W TL-Big Shoota,1Buzz (Biker Boss) mostly Scout can Outflank if battle needs it

grots on ADL With Quad

yes the Big Shoota is on the Nob just like 4th and 5th

I love my Dakkajet but one = Dead on arrival ..
My Nob bikers have recently been shelved for the time being
(They get shot up right off the bat every single time they appear and leave me not enough pointz )

morfydd wrote:
I have found this list works well as a TAC list no forgeworld it gets modified for forgeworld allowed runs..

1750
Bikerboss/PK,Cyb,BP,Attack Squig

Big Mek/KFF,Eavy,Cyb,BP
12 Burna Boyz (3 are Meks,KMB)
9 Lootas
9 Lootas
20 Shoota Boyz/Nob,Big Shoota,PK,BP,Eavy
20 Shoota Boyz/Nob,Big Shoota,PK,BP,Eavy

Battle Wagon/DR,BS,RPJ (Shoota Boyz)
Battle Wagon/DR,BS,RPJ (BM+Burna's)
Battle Wagon/DR,BS,RPJ (Shoota Boyz)

5 Deffkoptas W TL-Big Shoota,1Buzz (Biker Boss) mostly Scout can Outflank if battle needs it

grots on ADL With Quad

yes the Big Shoota is on the Nob just like 4th and 5th

I love my Dakkajet but one = Dead on arrival ..
My Nob bikers have recently been shelved for the time being
(They get shot up right off the bat every single time they appear and leave me not enough pointz )

I like the idea of the Deff Kopta unit but you do lose some resiliency and scoring (unless you are playing scouring). Your list in particular is even lighter on scoring while I probably would like to add scoring.

What are peoples thought on somehow trying to incorporate a second 10 man gretchin unit just for objective grabbing? Would a 10 man slugga unit (what I have models wise) be better than the grots? I would gain some resiliency due to increased toughness. If I can get my hands on 10 shoota boys I think that would be the best of the 3. Just looking for some backfield objective scoring etc.

More Scouring ..Swap out the Burna group for 15 Slugga Boyz in the third wagon ..(no nob let the Big Mek handle that )
Add in some grotz


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Correction Swap out the Burna Group in the Third Wagon for the Following
15-Slugga Boyz, Nob,PK,BS,eavy BP in Third wagon + Big Mek
10 Grots + Runth Herd

Your list is quite close to one I used in a local tournament a few months ago. I did fairly well with three wins and one loss. I did play a tau player but he did not have broadside or riptides. He was a gun line foot tau lots of fire warriors with suits and pathfinders plus commander and ethereal . He also had a hammer head and two piraña. He deployed poorly into a long gun line across his deployment zone. I deployed second and massed my force opposite his extreme right flank. Over the next few turns I crushed his flank and rolled up his line. I took heavy casualties but damn near tables the tau. Target priority really helped me to win this game. I too out the stuff I need to when I need to. Lootas did great shooting up crisis suits and fire warriors . My dakka jet did very well. He flew on in turn two and stayed out if range of his interceptor crisis suits and then proceeded to waaaaggggh and mowed down a fire warrior unit with attached ethereal . After the crisis suits pirrana and ethereal where gone it was just a matter of mop up his slower units.

Here is my list for reference. I hope it helps you find a way to beat your enemies.

War boss bike power klaw attack squig cybork
4 nob bikers 1 power klaw 1 boss pole pain boy cybork bodies
3 units of 20 shoota boys with nob klaw and pole
2 units of 11 grots with runtherd
2 units of 10 lootas
1 dakka jet with extra supa shoota
3 battle wagons big shoota and deff rolla

1750