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The amount of hate in this thread is rather ridiculous.
And also fits in exactly with the reason he's quitting the industry.

Beer: "You're an donkey-cave etc etc"
Fish: "Response..."
[insert more responses here]
Fish: "Right, that's it, I'm leaving and not finishing the game I was making, due to gamers being donkey-caves and constantly insulting me"
Gamers: "What a little baby" "Go cry more" "what a pretentious prick" etc.

Your post holds no water, honestly, and shows an ignorance of the incidents surrounding it.

Fish is known for being "notorious for voicing angry, controversial opinions about the state of video games and their development."

He's the artistic type, who views games as an art form, who's very willing to dish out the hurt but not take any of it himself.

Something he actually said to Beer(who's no better, they're just as bad as each other), btw: "compare your life to mine and then kill yourself,"

So get down off your high horse and realize the guy's just a petulant man child ragequitting because someone insulted him over not answering questions about Microsoft's decision to allow indie developers to self-publish.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Your post holds no water, honestly, and shows an ignorance of the incidents surrounding it.

Fish is known for being "notorious for voicing angry, controversial opinions about the state of video games and their development."

He's the artistic type, who views games as an art form, who's very willing to dish out the hurt but not take any of it himself.

Something he actually said to Beer(who's no better, they're just as bad as each other), btw: "compare your life to mine and then kill yourself,"

So get down off your high horse and realize the guy's just a petulant man child ragequitting because someone insulted him over not answering questions about Microsoft's decision to allow indie developers to self-publish.

Because my post was made in utter ignorance of everything surrounding the incident.

Yes, I know that Fish has made some not particularly nice comments in the past.
I also happened to read through the entire twitter argument (GameFront has screencaps).

I also looked at the comments sections on some of the articles about this, and surprise surprise, whilst some of the comments are saying that he was justified, or saying they're both at fault, almost all of them are direct personal insults.

Even in your post just then "petulant man child" and you seriously think that he has some sort of obligation to continue to develop Fez II whilst suffering the sort of abuse that he's getting now, or that he's just "ragequitting because someone insulted him over not answering questions"?

He gave a reason for not answering, which was that he didn't want to respond to rumours, and that he'd wait for the official announcement, but this isn't good enough and so he has to be insulted for it.

Just because someone is known for being outspoken or rude doesn't mean you should insult him at every available opportunity, and honestly, I think he was justified in leaving. Some of the comments I've seen have been absolutely hateful.

I never said he was obligated to do anything and never posted such.

I say he, and honestly, Beer as well, are petulant manchildren because they ACT like petulant manchildren. Is it an insult to call an apple an apple for acting like an apple?

And yes, your first post DID show an ignorance of the situation, as it entirely missed the attitude of Fish's behaviour and entirely laid blame upon his detractor. His response wasn't a calm response as you imply, it was an attack in kind.

 Platuan4th wrote:
I never said he was obligated to do anything and never posted such.

I say he, and honestly, Beer as well, are petulant manchildren because they ACT like petulant manchildren. Is it an insult to call an apple an apple for acting like an apple?

Only if the apple feels it's a unique snowflake and all of the oranges that want to be around the apple are dirty, grimy fethers.

 Platuan4th wrote:
I say he, and honestly, Beer as well, are petulant manchildren because they ACT like petulant manchildren. Is it an insult to call an apple an apple for acting like an apple?

Only when the term "Apple" is an insult. You're perfectly entitled to call him a petulant manchild, but don't pretend for one second that it isn't an insult.

If I went up to someone and said "you have absolutely no talent or sense of morals whatsoever and everyone here wishes you were dead", and they had accidentally caused a genocide due to their own stupidity, which they then proclaimed themselves to be proud of, my statement may be true, but it doesn't mean that it isn't insulting.

Besides which, I was using your comment as an example of comments that everyone else has been slinging around, which have been fairly vitriolic.

So the only time to point out that someone is being an immature ass is if they commit genocide? Well that escalated quickly.

 Ahtman wrote:
So the only time to point out that someone is being an immature ass is if they commit genocide? Well that escalated quickly.

That quite obviously wasn't my point. I was inflating the example to the point of absurdity so that there was no way someone could go "but that insult isn't justified for what the fictional guy did!".

And it's all well and good calling someone an immature ass, it's quite another saying what Beer did, purely over the fact that Fish wouldn't comment on a rumour.

 Goliath wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
So the only time to point out that someone is being an immature ass is if they commit genocide? Well that escalated quickly.

That quite obviously wasn't my point. I was inflating the example to the point of absurdity so that there was no way someone could go "but that insult isn't justified for what the fictional guy did!".

I understood what you were trying to do, you just didn't do it very well; your attempt at reductio ad absurdum detracted more from you point than it supported it, and opened the door for an Anchorman reference, which I was more then willing to step through, consummate professional that I am.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Goliath wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
So the only time to point out that someone is being an immature ass is if they commit genocide? Well that escalated quickly.

That quite obviously wasn't my point. I was inflating the example to the point of absurdity so that there was no way someone could go "but that insult isn't justified for what the fictional guy did!".

I understood what you were trying to do, you just didn't do it very well; your attempt at reductio ad absurdum detracted more from you point than it supported it, and opened the door for an Anchorman reference, which I was more then willing to step through, consummate professional that I am.

It wasn't actually intended to be reductio ad absurdam, it was meant to be an example where it was so clear cut that the insult was deserved that it couldn't be nitpicked. I'm not really sure how reductio ad absurdam could be applied here

 Goliath wrote:
inflating the example to the point of absurdity

 Goliath wrote:
I'm not really sure how reductio ad absurdam could be applied here

Does the left typing hand not know what the right typing hand is writing?

 Ahtman wrote:

 Goliath wrote:
inflating the example to the point of absurdity

 Goliath wrote:
I'm not really sure how reductio ad absurdam could be applied here

Does the left typing hand not know what the right typing hand is writing?

My bad I probably shouldn't have used that exact phrase should I?
I'll try again. "My intention wasn't to *knowingly* use reductio ad absurdam, and I'm not sure how it could be *usefully* applied here, however this doesn't mean that I didn't use it without realising earlier in the thread."
That good enough?

Seriously though, I think they've both overreacted in this situation, but it does seem like this was somewhat of a "straw that broke the camel's back" incident, as if I'd received the amount of abuse that Fish is getting over this incident over however many years that he's been in the public eye, I would have snapped and quit years ago.

To be honest I think it'd be more therapeutic for developers to start chatting bum juice back at people...

Wait Fish is from Canada? Son of a that surprises me. Never had a chance to play Fez and you know what even if I get a chance I won't. I can understand not wanting to be abused on a regular basis. It seems that many game developers are having that problem now . But this guy seems to actually encourage what's happening to him and I refuse to support this bell-end

Skinless2 wrote:
Wait Fish is from Canada? Son of a that surprises me. Never had a chance to play Fez and you know what even if I get a chance I won't. I can understand not wanting to be abused on a regular basis. It seems that many game developers are having that problem now . But this guy seems to actually encourage what's happening to him and I refuse to support this bell-end

There's a difference between not dealing with abuse well (and turning yourself into a target) and encouraging it. The guy is leaving so that he doesn't get abused, do you honestly think that he actually tries to encourage the abuse?

 Goliath wrote:

Skinless2 wrote:
Wait Fish is from Canada? Son of a that surprises me. Never had a chance to play Fez and you know what even if I get a chance I won't. I can understand not wanting to be abused on a regular basis. It seems that many game developers are having that problem now . But this guy seems to actually encourage what's happening to him and I refuse to support this bell-end

There's a difference between not dealing with abuse well (and turning yourself into a target) and encouraging it. The guy is leaving so that he doesn't get abused, do you honestly think that he actually tries to encourage the abuse?

While I agree he didn't deserve the amount of abuse he got, he also isn't worth defending.

Geez, guys.

Someone is chased off of the internet by meanies and all you can do is sit around and BLAME THE VICTIM.

 Monster Rain wrote:
Geez, guys.

Someone is chased off of the internet by meanies and all you can do is sit around and BLAME THE VICTIM.

It took nearly three pages for this reference to pop up? Severely disappointed, Dakka.


Anyway, this guy sounds like a petulant baby.

 Goliath wrote:

Skinless2 wrote:
Wait Fish is from Canada? Son of a that surprises me. Never had a chance to play Fez and you know what even if I get a chance I won't. I can understand not wanting to be abused on a regular basis. It seems that many game developers are having that problem now . But this guy seems to actually encourage what's happening to him and I refuse to support this bell-end

There's a difference between not dealing with abuse well (and turning yourself into a target) and encouraging it. The guy is leaving so that he doesn't get abused, do you honestly think that he actually tries to encourage the abuse?

He does not make it easy for me NOT to think it. I suppose I can give him a benefit of a doubt, I found that at a loaded conference for an indie game documentary when asked by a game developer from Japan what he thinks of modern Japanese games he simply replied with "Your games just suck".

So no he may not actively encourage abusive behavior. He's just an idiot.

Wait. There's a game about making hats for monkeys? How was I not informed?

Skinless2 wrote:

 Goliath wrote:

Skinless2 wrote:
Wait Fish is from Canada? Son of a that surprises me. Never had a chance to play Fez and you know what even if I get a chance I won't. I can understand not wanting to be abused on a regular basis. It seems that many game developers are having that problem now . But this guy seems to actually encourage what's happening to him and I refuse to support this bell-end

There's a difference between not dealing with abuse well (and turning yourself into a target) and encouraging it. The guy is leaving so that he doesn't get abused, do you honestly think that he actually tries to encourage the abuse?

He does not make it easy for me NOT to think it. I suppose I can give him a benefit of a doubt, I found that at a loaded conference for an indie game documentary when asked by a game developer from Japan what he thinks of modern Japanese games he simply replied with "Your games just suck".

So no he may not actively encourage abusive behavior. He's just an idiot.

He did go on to apologise to the guy, saying that he said it slightly tactlessly, and he spoke to the guy (A developer named Makoto Goto) afterwards, and made up.

For what it's worth, the guy doesn't want Fish to quit

I'm sorry, but with sideburns like that, he shouldn't be making a hamburger, much less a game.....

Visual recreation of the events.

Well, I honestly couldn't care less.

Fez was just yet another "omg the retro super hard" faux-8-bit platformer. Like we don't have enough of those already. I am hardly sad at the loss of the sequel.

The guy seemed a real douche as well. Insulting your entire fanbase? Casually slagging off the entire game output of a whole country? Seems like a prize gakker to me.

He seems like the game developer equivalent of Christian Weston Chandler. Good riddance to the man.

Monster Rain wrote:Geez, guys.
Someone is chased off of the internet by meanies and all you can do is sit around and BLAME THE VICTIM.

If Dakka OT is any indication, I thought this was normal here?

I kinda agree with Ahtman's gif, tho.

Skinless2 wrote:I can understand not wanting to be abused on a regular basis. It seems that many game developers are having that problem now

Someone just linked me this article, which reminded me of this thread (hence this post) ... it's well worth the read, and hopefully makes some people think about the issue.

That's an interesting article, Lynata.

I doubt it will shake any of the more vitriolic haters that they aren't entitled to spew the pointless torrent of ignorant criticism, but I had no idea that developers took this sort of thing personally.

More people should be like Billy Corgan in this regard, and treat the howling Internet mobs with the disdain that they deserve.

I feel sorry for his employees. While I don't want to judge him given that I only skimmed over the OP, to have their project suddenly canceled like that... has to suck.

 Melissia wrote:
I feel sorry for his employees. While I don't want to judge him given that I only skimmed over the OP, to have their project suddenly canceled like that... has to suck.

I have to agree here. I can't really find sympathy for Fish, (who's incredibly egotistical and has obviously been told from a young age that he is better than everyone else), but I can with those who will be effected by his immature actions. Fish needs to learn he isn't better than everyone else, and that his actions will not improve his already poor image.

 purplefood wrote:
To be honest I think it'd be more therapeutic for developers to start chatting bum juice back at people...

Naw, Derek Smart already tried that approach.

Yes I watched a documentary that had that dude in it, and he was a total ass hat pretty much the entire time. I still wouldn't mind playing Fez because it does look line a cool game. But the creator is a jack wagon