Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I play in a 1750pt tourny every Thursday night. I have lost the past 2 weeks, but mostly from bad deployment. I was thinking of adding in some daemon allies, but I don't really know the new Daemon codex that well yet. Seeing if there are some better than others, or some that are must haves.

Currently running:

Lord on Bike with SoC, MoN, BBoS

7x PM 2x Plasma
7x PM 2x Plasma

25x Cultists
25x Cultists

7x MoS, IoE Bikers with 2x Melta

3x Deepstriking Termies with combi melta

5x Havocs with Autocannons
Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun

2x Rhinos
Forgefiend.

I know I will need to make some room, but seeing what the possibilities could be.

A Tzeentch Herald might do you good with access to Divination. Imagine your Forgefiend re-rolling to hit with his shots. I think if Daemons are the allied attachment though, you can only bring one Herald.

I'm all for other allies, but figured since Chaos Daemons are Battle Brothers, it would be best.

 Solomongrundy wrote:
I play in a 1750pt tourny every Thursday night. I have lost the past 2 weeks, but mostly from bad deployment. I was thinking of adding in some daemon allies, but I don't really know the new Daemon codex that well yet. Seeing if there are some better than others, or some that are must haves.

Currently running:

Lord on Bike with SoC, MoN, BBoS

7x PM 2x Plasma
7x PM 2x Plasma

25x Cultists
25x Cultists

7x MoS, IoE Bikers with 2x Melta

3x Deepstriking Termies with combi melta

2x Rhinos
Forgefiend.

I know I will need to make some room, but seeing what the possibilities could be.

Are you running the Lord with the Bikers? Because a Lord with MoN in a unit with MoS is illegal.

To answer your question, I ask you a new question: which slot / battlefield role would you like daemon allies to cover?

I just changed the bikers to MoS, so the Lord will be running behind them, but not in the same squad.

I could either use a beast to charge in or what I think might really help is a support unit either psyker or objective holders. The meta at my FLGS seems to be Eldar and Tau, with some random CSM, IG, and DE.

Also I don't have any flyers, so hoping the Forgefiend/Havocs will help with that

Sneaking in a greater Daemon would be fun. Take a squad of cheap infantry and some kind of big nasty.

KoS is the cheapest but I personally think that the GUO is cheaper once you factor in upgrades because you aren't so reliant on powers and rewards.

I have seen the GUO being just a beast no matter what

You can never go wrong with a bloodthirster and a troop of your choice. Simple and deadly.

 Goat wrote:
You can never go wrong with a bloodthirster and a troop of your choice. Simple and deadly.

Yea I was going to try a BloodThirster with squad of 10 Bloodletters, mostly because that is what I have currently
I also have a squad of Plaguebearers and some nurglings

For punching faces hard, a Bloodthirster with a greater reward (try for FNP) will cause a lot of fear among your enemies. Get a small squad of plaguebearers as troops to sit in cover babysitting an objective to keep it cheap.

If you want to be shootier, the Herald of Tzeentch with psyker levels and going heavy on Divinatio is great. It lets you twin-link any shooting unit you need for that turn: havocs, the forgefiend, the plasmaguns, and if you roll well it can also give your bikes a 4+ invulnerable.

Would I just leave the Herald as is, or bump him to Lvl 3 and add some rewards and/or Locus?

For allies I'd drop those Cultists and take some Guard blobs. They do the Cultists' job much better than the Cultists while bringing some heavy weaponry to the fray.

 Solomongrundy wrote:
Would I just leave the Herald as is, or bump him to Lvl 3 and add some rewards and/or Locus?

For allies, it's best to get as cheap a packet as you can for the utility you need. You need the herald for his psyker ability. LV2 is enough to cast his boon and one other basic power. Add only what you think will help him stay on the table longer, as he will be a big target. Anything that improves wounds, saves and such is welcome.

If you're are looking for utility, a Tzeentch herald mastery 3 will be a large force multiplier.

If you're looking to make your list more killy, get a Bloodthirster.

If you want something killy and good support, a LoC can still bring the pain while taking 3 divination powers, and you wont even waste the psycher only buffs from that table.

GUO is hard to kill, especially with 3 biomancy powers, but hes really slow so its hard to get him in combat with anything.

Daemon troops kinda suck, but plaguebearers can hold objectives in cover very well.

For FA, Khornedogs would be a strong inclusion for running alongside your bikes. Seekers might out-pace your bikes and are fragile, so they would probably get hosed right away.

Soul Grinders are the best heavy pick you can take from your daemonic allies. If you make it a DoS, it can bring along a S6 AP4 torrent template, perfect for hosing down some of the more popular armies right now (non-suits in tao, some eldar, and necron warriors). MoN in cover is stupidly hard to deal with, and if you give it Bombardment, you get a strong 36" S8 Large blast.

I like using the GUO as an objective denier in their table zone. Give the unit of 10 plaguebearers a banner and a musician to safe deepstrike in during the same turn.

Also once he is in their table half they have one turn before his powers make him very hard to kill. I also like to give him a portalglyph so he can start spawning units to try and claim the stuff in his table quarter. Since my list is slow this is the best way for me to get in there and fight for his objectives.

However he is expensive but worth every point.

Would you both with Rewards for bloodthirster or Herald of Tzeentch?

I will probably bring naked plague bearers and try to keep them in cover with an objective.

You want to take a greater daemon. It helps to counter one of the weaknesses of your PMs -- vulnerability to a dedicated strong CC deathstar. A GUO can do quite a number on a deathstar.

You also can get some cheap objective holders that will stick around longer than cultists.

After that I will often grab a soul grinder. They are better than maulerfiends and defilers.

Khorne dogs and seekers are also extremely good.

If you want a herald, go with a Khorne herald on jugger with 10 hounds and 10 PBs for a small allies detachment. PBs will hold an objective, herald+hounds will murder everything outside of armor and very high T. Give the herald a lesser reward and go with blade of blood to scare everything without eternal warrior (instant death on 6)

For greater daemons, I suggest spending the points on a decked out Lord of Change. Take a lesser and 2 greater rewards. For the lesser reward, go with the staff, gives +2S for S8, plus when you kill a character, you do d6 S5 hits to everything within 6 inches because the dude explodes (yes including you) It flies, it is ML2 and has divination, so it can buff the rest of your army if needed. Or you can take 1 Tzeentch power for the primaris (which can be pretty awesome)

If you want to add points, take a soul grinder! Slaanesh+Torrent is a fun combo, makes for a fast assaulty grinder. Or you can tank down with a nurgle + phlegm. Tzeentch gives a little more survivability, Khorne doesnt do too much, as you are already S10.

What do you guys think about:

LOC 2 greaters, 1 lesser. (Or 1 greater and true names)

20 daemonettes
15 seekers

Paired with a huron infiltrating army, letting the daemonettes infiltrate.

Along with some other fast pressure units,

Mauler, spawn, bikes

That sounds like a great turn 2 assault army.

I would start worrying about vehicles at that point. Your LoC can only do so much on his own, and seekers/daemonettes need rends to even have a chance at glancing AV10.

Your bikes will be packing some melta, but what are you dropping to add that 640 pts of daemons?

Killme304 wrote:
I would start worrying about vehicles at that point. Your LoC can only do so much on his own, and seekers/daemonettes need rends to even have a chance at glancing AV10.

Your bikes will be packing some melta, but what are you dropping to add that 640 pts of daemons?

Well i only need 9 daemonettes on average take down a 3 hullpoint vehicle AV10. They dump a lot of attacks.

So the daemonettes, seekers, spawn, CSM with melta, bikers with melta, maulerfiend, LOC, infact every squad can handle vehicles to a degree.

But yea the main problem is what to drop from CSM while still fitting everything in. Because i still want obliterators, a heldrake, maulers, spawn, bikers. But i don't think it will all fit.

Steffo wrote:
What do you guys think about:

LOC 2 greaters, 1 lesser. (Or 1 greater and true names)

20 daemonettes
15 seekers

Paired with a huron infiltrating army, letting the daemonettes infiltrate.

Along with some other fast pressure units,

Mauler, spawn, bikes

I've been playing a similar list for a while now. At the moment I'm using this:

160 Huron Blackheart
130 Sorcerer, ML3, Bike, Forcesword
270 LoC, ML2, LR, ER
160 10 CSM, AC, Melta
50 10 Cultists
180 20 Daemonettes
180 5 Spawn, MoN
170 Heldrake
160 10 Fleshhounds
125 Maulerfiend
165 Soulgrinder, MoK, Phlegm

1750 points

It's definately competative enough and vehicles aren't really a problem (although you have to accept that you will rely on taking them down in CC).
I feel in a list like this the Daemons definately complement the CSM. For example, last game I had a Maulerfiend with a Grimnoire 3++ save which destroyed the opposing backfield from turn 3 onwards completely unchecked.
The synergy between the units really works and you have a tool for all occasions. Of course, like all balanced lists, you won't often win big, but you have a good shot against everything.

Cilithan

Ok I know I made the IG comment earlier, but since then I've discovered something that I somehow missed and I really have no idea how I didn't see it before. Tzeentch Heralds can get Divination now! This is huge for CSM, as when the book came out there were a lot of ideas thrown about which ended with 'pity it doesn't have divination'. I'm going to try out two Tzeentch Heralds and some Horrors as allies to make my Havocs even more potent; it certainly seems like Havocs and Fiends gain the most from Prescience.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Ok I know I made the IG comment earlier, but since then I've discovered something that I somehow missed and I really have no idea how I didn't see it before. Tzeentch Heralds can get Divination now! This is huge for CSM, as when the book came out there were a lot of ideas thrown about which ended with 'pity it doesn't have divination'. I'm going to try out two Tzeentch Heralds and some Horrors as allies to make my Havocs even more potent; it certainly seems like Havocs and Fiends gain the most from Prescience.

You have to double your FoC to get 2 heralds from allied daemons. "Each primary detachment in your army my include up to 4..."

 Cilithan wrote:


I've been playing a similar list for a while now. At the moment I'm using this:

160 Huron Blackheart
130 Sorcerer, ML3, Bike, Forcesword
270 LoC, ML2, LR, ER
160 10 CSM, AC, Melta
50 10 Cultists
180 20 Daemonettes
180 5 Spawn, MoN
170 Heldrake
160 10 Fleshhounds
125 Maulerfiend
165 Soulgrinder, MoK, Phlegm

1750 points

It's definately competative enough and vehicles aren't really a problem (although you have to accept that you will rely on taking them down in CC).
I feel in a list like this the Daemons definately complement the CSM. For example, last game I had a Maulerfiend with a Grimnoire 3++ save which destroyed the opposing backfield from turn 3 onwards completely unchecked.
The synergy between the units really works and you have a tool for all occasions. Of course, like all balanced lists, you won't often win big, but you have a good shot against everything.

Cilithan

Yea that is nice, swap the fleshhounds for seekers, and the soulgrinder and sorc for some oblits or something CSMy and thats the list i am going for. Do you find the LoC isn't survivable enough without greater rewards? Does true names on the LoC screw you at the worst of times?

Good to see you have had some success with it, what are the list you struggle against?

Killme304 wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Ok I know I made the IG comment earlier, but since then I've discovered something that I somehow missed and I really have no idea how I didn't see it before. Tzeentch Heralds can get Divination now! This is huge for CSM, as when the book came out there were a lot of ideas thrown about which ended with 'pity it doesn't have divination'. I'm going to try out two Tzeentch Heralds and some Horrors as allies to make my Havocs even more potent; it certainly seems like Havocs and Fiends gain the most from Prescience.

You have to double your FoC to get 2 heralds from allied daemons. "Each primary detachment in your army my include up to 4..."

Ah ok. Still, I'm just happy that I can actually get Prescience into my list now.