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I've heard a lot of talk about Stormboyz being generally terrible, not worth the points, etc. But I can't figure out why. To me it seems like (If you take Zagstruk at any rate,) they're an excellent unit for landing backfield and taking out high priority units. (Leman Russ squadrons, Devestator Squads, anything that is buffing nearby peoples.)
Obviously it's no perfect solution, but I've won a lot of games with my Stormboyz. So am I just lucky?

No, it's not about luck.
People are quick to call something terrible if it's slightly less competitive than another choice.

I only call things "terrible" or "awful" if their ruling is so bad that it's not even fun fielding the unit.

I wouldn't call them terrible. My friend, and regular opponent, uses them quite a lot and they always fair well. He uses a large mob of 15-20 and the extra D6 movement does wonders for getting them into combat. He doesn't use the special character, just a nob with PK and boss pole.

Don't run less than 15 and they'll do well...always use the d6 movement...that's why you brought extra boyz....while dem rokkits izn't reliable...many rocket git da job dun.

Some units are without a doubt, terrible. (1Ksons) But just because the interwebz says a unit is less than ideal, doesn't mean you can make it work. Heck, I run a HQ squad for my sisters (Universally called "useless.") and they've done me proud so far. Cannoness, hospitilar and 3 heavy bolters with feel no pain? Sure.
If storm boys work for you, then you're using them right so then they don't suck...unless they cost like 800 pts or somethin'.

Kangodo wrote:
No, it's not about luck.
People are quick to call something terrible if it's slightly less competitive than another choice.

I only call things "terrible" or "awful" if their ruling is so bad that it's not even fun fielding the unit.

Well it's like taking a Valkyrie - not awful in and of itself, but why would you even consider it when you could take a Vendetta? Basically, if there's imbalance in a Codex it makes units unattractive and basically a personal handicap to take (eg, Blood Claws).

There orkz isnt everything supposed to be awful about them? But they manage to pull it off!!! Maybe your lucky or because they have such a bad name no one knows what they are capiable of.

Well, you can get 2x the normal boys for the same points IIRC. with 6+ armor, some dying on landing if choosing to assault via zagg.... not to mention overwatch... can really dwindle #s down quickly. Like you've said, RA10 vehicles are good targets, as well as devastators etc

personally a "slingshot" is their best use IMHO.



more or less deep strike between a boss you want to slingshot, move the boss first into coherency, then charge with the newly arrived boyz thanks to zags rules. sometimes they scatter out of range and boss cant join up, but thus is life!

target in my example wouldn't of expected an assault from a biker boss/megaboss 28-34" away ya know? (granted you won't get the boss to swing but you'll hopefully get him locked in combat and free from being shot at)

Sweet maneuver. Never saw that one coming...

Plans for the next "Hold the Donut" mission?

skyfi wrote:
Well, you can get 2x the normal boys for the same points IIRC. with 6+ armor, some dying on landing if choosing to assault via zagg.... not to mention overwatch... can really dwindle #s down quickly. Like you've said, RA10 vehicles are good targets, as well as devastators etc

personally a "slingshot" is their best use IMHO.



more or less deep strike between a boss you want to slingshot, move the boss first into coherency, then charge with the newly arrived boyz thanks to zags rules. sometimes they scatter out of range and boss cant join up, but thus is life!

target in my example wouldn't of expected an assault from a biker boss/megaboss 28-34" away ya know? (granted you won't get the boss to swing but you'll hopefully get him locked in combat and free from being shot at)

A unit cannot move after an independent character joins.

They're not bad if you use a lot of them. You just have to take big mobs

A unit cannot move after an independent character joins.

It's not relient upon movement...its relient upon their getting him locked into assault even if he isnt close enough to cause damage the first turn. A unit can assault the same turn its been joined.

I actually believe the unit can move as long as the IC doesn't move...because he doesn't join until the end of the movement phase. In this case the point is moot because DSers can't move anyways.

It's a common trick used to get ICs where they need to be without weathering the fire on the way.

I hate stormboyz because they wreck my rear ranks.

They require a bit of finesse to use, that's why they're not considered "viable" or "competitive" or whatever the current idiotic catch-phrase now...

A guy in my meta is using them as a backup unit to support his nob bikers...the bikers take the damage and the stormies put out the pain....it worked fairly well as a counterassault unit against my bugs.

In your meta? oh, you mean someone you frequently play? because meta doesn't mean that...

I also forgot, not being able to assault out of reserves also dings this unit.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
In your meta? oh, you mean someone you frequently play? because meta doesn't mean that...

I also forgot, not being able to assault out of reserves also dings this unit.

Hey git, watch yerself. You are starting to come off as rude. Relax, not his fault he has a different understanding of "meta" than yours. Brighten up mate, we are all friendlies here. Don't want anyone caught in anyone's crossfire.

Back on topic,
I used to use stormboys a lot. They were my focal point in my lists, but then after a couple games of them being shot up by fleshborer, bolter, etc overwatch and never getting a chance to do anything,, I put them away in favour of warbuggies and then eventually more boys. I have been struggling in the 6ed stormboy department.

I theorize that it is all in using them as counter-charge units or as a unit that charges pre-charged units. OR perhaps to hunt walkers, MCs, and other not as shooty options. YMMV

their problem is theyre still just boyz with 6+ saves. If you can get them across the board in one piece (deepstrike and use zagstruk to assault, or hide behind terrain/battlewagons) they can cause a lot of chaos since you will not get away from them after that initial turn is over.

I usually end up having point problems, thats why i dont use them. Otherwise i would theyre nothing like Flash Gitz which is utter complete garbage

The problem with stormboyz is they're foot boyz with a jump pack, and pay more points for that pack than its worth compared to extra boyz.

Good on yer if you can make them work, though.

i think you misunderstand how they move.

They are normal Jumppack Infantry, which move 12" and they also have their own rule to move an additional D6, but someone goes BOOM if you roll a 1 for that D6 result.

Thats way more than foot boyz with jump packs. The price isnt the issue, its lack of ways to get them anywhere since they fall over like boyz and lack the hundreds of numbers to ignore that problem.
Also 20man blobs arent that big for boyz since they mainly want massive numbers to get around their 5-8 deaths per turn. Its either numbers or survivability and stormboyz really have neither.

Im actually curious if they'll do to the Warboss what the Chaos Lord got to do - basically have access to the entire damn armory. I would love to run a jumpboss, even if its not that viable lol

Stormboys are weak so you need to get them across the table as fast as you can. The safest way would be to deep strike them in with zag to avoid lots of wounds. Make sure you charge first so you get hammer of wrath. Also take bigger mobs (more than 10)

I like my Stormboyz. They can be an excellent support unit, with a potentially very long assault range. They've saved my butt and been MVP a couple of times in the past. I never field Zagstruk though.

I'd disagree that they are about getting across the table ASAP. Rather, use the fact that they ignore intervening terrain when they move and place them out of LOS. Keep them safe and be opportunistic with them - their average move+charge range is 22" (absolute minimum is 15" on a really bad day), so placed properly they can reach just about anything you want them to and charge in to support a mob of boys or take out something vital behind enemy lines.

The only thing stopping me from fielding them is that they are so expensive. I invariably find myself unable to spare the points because of some other must-have these days. But now I want to try them again...

 Vineheart01 wrote:
their problem is theyre still just boyz with 6+ saves. If you can get them across the board in one piece (deepstrike and use zagstruk to assault, or hide behind terrain/battlewagons) they can cause a lot of chaos since you will not get away from them after that initial turn is over.

I usually end up having point problems, thats why i dont use them. Otherwise i would theyre nothing like Flash Gitz which is utter complete garbage

This point is moot because a lot of marine armies are feeling the same way. haha 3+ is getting popped so often now. If you're lucky you're getting a cover save... if you're lucky...

I like stormz because they move fast, in a shooty addition move/run just isn't fast enough.

Jancoran wrote:

skyfi wrote:
Well, you can get 2x the normal boys for the same points IIRC. with 6+ armor, some dying on landing if choosing to assault via zagg.... not to mention overwatch... can really dwindle #s down quickly. Like you've said, RA10 vehicles are good targets, as well as devastators etc

personally a "slingshot" is their best use IMHO.



more or less deep strike between a boss you want to slingshot, move the boss first into coherency, then charge with the newly arrived boyz thanks to zags rules. sometimes they scatter out of range and boss cant join up, but thus is life!

target in my example wouldn't of expected an assault from a biker boss/megaboss 28-34" away ya know? (granted you won't get the boss to swing but you'll hopefully get him locked in combat and free from being shot at)

A unit cannot move after an independent character joins.

ductvader wrote:It's not relient upon movement...its relient upon their getting him locked into assault even if he isnt close enough to cause damage the first turn. A unit can assault the same turn its been joined.

I actually believe the unit can move as long as the IC doesn't move...because he doesn't join until the end of the movement phase. In this case the point is moot because DSers can't move anyways.

It's a common trick used to get ICs where they need to be without weathering the fire on the way.

Maybe I'm mistaken but I was unaware a unit could move after a character joined it in 40k. Thats how it works in fantasy for sure though. I was under impression the unit could move but not the IC, as he had already moved to join them.... which is completely irrelevant to my tactic I think. as they stormboyz aren't "moving" they are "charging" after deepstriking (per zag's special rule) or maybe I'm missing something. Ductvader seems to see it though

The stormboyz could RUN, or charge to gain distance from where they deepstruck in, but not MOVE as the deepstrike was their MOVE.. right?

In any case, I think my tactic is still legal and valid right?

Ah yes, the wording now becomes very important. as an assault is not part of the movement phase. So the IC can move to join and then can assault.

that still breaks it up in to two phases.

The run to join wouldn't even work, as joining is done at the end of the movement phase..

The run would also stop assault from being possible with Zag...so I wouldn't recommend it.

If you need any future clarification I would bring this issue to "you make da call" so we don't bog down this thread.

 ductvader wrote:
The run to join wouldn't even work, as joining is done at the end of the movement phase..

The run would also stop assault from being possible with Zag...so I wouldn't recommend it.

If you need any future clarification I would bring this issue to "you make da call" so we don't bog down this thread.

I wasn't saying he could run to join the stormboys, or advising anyone to run with them (as it wouldn't make sense in picture I drew). I was just trying to differentiate between a MOVE, RUN, and a CHARGE-MOVE or whatever it's called... (also to point out that a unit CAN move after a IC joins... but ONLY by running afterwards or declaring a charge).... The order makes stormboyz usefullness increase alot because we are one of the few units in game that can assault from deepstrike... and sling shot people across board by doing so to boo. That I can think of. Vanguard vets and super-genestealers or whatever they are, all all I can think of, and only one of those has near the mobility of the stormboyz

ex.. the stormboys could run (and gain distance) but not charge (and still be joined by the IC before they ran I'm pretty sure).... (a dumb move but written to help others understand difference between a movment and a run/charge)

OR...

the IC could move up to coherency and the stormboyz declare a charge and they all chug along like a little train...

as tgjensen as said, a great use is to hide them and specifically only pop out opportunistically.. really detracts people from charging one of your squads of lootas... knowing 20 dudes can hop the fence and help em out in a pinch (granted lots of points spent their bodyguarding lootas)

Its in the BRB. I dont have it here or I'd cite the page for you. But essentially, once a character joins a unit, no more movement for them.

 Jancoran wrote:
Its in the BRB. I dont have it here or I'd cite the page for you. But essentially, once a character joins a unit, no more movement for them.

Please do, as I'm rather out of the 40k circle, been playing fantasy and SDE lately. From my experiences though you are describing how characters work in warhammer fantasy, not 40k. (not trying to sound like a know it all I honestly want to know what you find)


Regardless though, my stormboys aren't moving. They are charging. So it's really moot. They could run if they wanted to once the IC joined even, if that was the thing to do. I don't see any reason why not.

I also don't see any reason why a unit could not move after it was joined by a character? so the page or rule citation would be great to have.