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I was playing my flying circus CSM/daemon list today and found a very good use for (conga) lining my beasties up. If I put Fateweaver at the front and give him the Grimnore he has a 2+ re rollable save and is flying. I then put my nurgle CSM daemon prince behind him giving him a 3+ cover saveor a 2+ if I dive, then the final prince behind him giving him a 4+ cover save at least from the 2 daemon princes. then if I park my two rhino's either side to provide cover from the sides. I'm pretty much unkillable. of course this means I need to get turn one. But is there anything illegal in doing this is or is it me just growing a giant beard???

Fateweaver can't take the grimnoire... one of the other daemons would have to carry it.

Other than that, go for it.

Yeah it's the heavy support daemon prince stood at the back of the line carries the Grimnoire. Cheers it looks like the best way for my two princes to get into combat turn 2. Although I can imagine I'll only run this list at tourneys as I have 2 princes one with black mace other biomancy,Fateweaver and 2 heldrakes

Can't see anything illegal in it, but definitely beardy in the extreme. It might be excellent for tournament use, as a one game trick to pull at some one who's just as beardy.

I feel like I'm missing something here.

Fateweave 2++ re-reoll, check.

nurgle CSM daemon prince 3+ cover, check.

nurgle CSM daemon prince diving gives you a 5+ so with shroud you are still at 3+ cover.

Final prince will be in the same boat. 5+ cover from intervening models or jink. Then 3+ cover for nurgle or 2+ if the enemy is with 8" for nurgle defensive grenades.

Rhinos will make sure you get cover from the sides , but should not change the numbers.

The final prince is just on the 5+ cover for intervening models so he is the weak point but if i get lucky on biomancy and with a nasty black mace prince flying at my opponent and Fateweaver hopefully they will shoot at them instead of my fnp or t8 prince

there are ignore cover weapons in the game

assault, also ignores cover

eldar can remove shrouding.

Yeah I only use it for first turn keeping myself alive purposes and because I can move 18 first turn I should be able to turn two charge with the two princes whilst Fateweaver flies around shooting/vector striking.

While it isn't illegal, some people may throw the book at you.

 Exergy wrote:
there are ignore cover weapons in the game

assault, also ignores cover

eldar can remove shrouding.

The Serpent shields are quite effective to down flying DPs.

 Kain wrote:
While it isn't illegal, some people may throw the book at you.

Are people really so hostile towards people using their brains to play this game?

how are they unkillable?
I'm just curious, 3+ save is nothing close to invincible...

Torrent of Ire wrote:

 Kain wrote:
While it isn't illegal, some people may throw the book at you.

Are people really so hostile towards people using their brains to play this game?

Considering that we are the same species that have killed and died over even dumber things, yes.

They aren't unkillable but its very hard to kill a flying t5 daemon prince with 3+ cover save as I've already said its just my tactic to absorb one turn of shooting before I assault. And to end the (people will kill me) comments my local meta is very competative and if I know my opponent doesn't run comp lists I won't run 2 heldrakes and 3 fmc because that's stupid. I'm also thinking about swapping Fateweaver with a LOC with staff 2 greater and lvl3 what do you guys think??

Daemon Princes die in assault anyway, to literally anything that can swing back. Why would anyone be in too much of a fit because it's not quite as hard to wound as a Plague Marine to shooting?

I don't think they do die easily in the assault tell that to the guys played last week when I killed his 2 wraith knights in combat. Ws9 is his best defence because it makes the majority of people hit them on 5+. I'm swapping my list around now and going for a lord of change lvl3 and 2 greater rewards and getting my black mace prince lvl2 for biomancy so I have a 2/3 chance of one of my princes getting ion arm and an ion arm prince in combat with a staff of change or a black ace isn't anything to snuff at.

DPs murder things in assault, that's kinda the whole point.

But bunching them together like that just seems like pie plate bait.

If your opponent happens to have even 1 vindicator, it's possible to say good bye to them.

Also, having a 3+ armor makes a 3+ cover kinda pointless, and if you're not buying a 3+ armor then you aren't going to do too well in CC.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Daemon Princes die in assault anyway, to literally anything that can swing back.

I don't think you understand the definition of the word 'literally'. Either that or you're trolling, because Daemon Princes are generally pretty good in assault.

The only things that give my DPs a problem in assault are other MCs with T:6 or greater (they can Instant Death me via Smash, but I cannot do the same), models equipped with Force Weapons (unless I get Iron Arm) and things like squads of TH+SS terminators.


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 wuestenfux wrote:
The Serpent shields are quite effective to down flying DPs.

I haven't had that be the case thus far for games that I've played against the new Eldar.

Makutsu the problem with pie plating is that they are flying so you'd have to down them first.

Eldar can remove shrouding, but most of the princes will get a 5+ or even 4+ DTW against it.

Also you have to bring them down before you can pie plate the.

I like the LoC better then FW. I know FW adds some stability, but he is not really a treat. When you add in having to use the GoTN on him and giving up a greater to get it he has a lost of unseen cost.

Also the CSM DP has to take a level in the Nurgle powers if he becomes a psycher. So 1/6 of iron arm. If you take levels on him I have had some luck with telepathy. If you get one of the two charge powers the extra level is not wasted and it is not a bad school beyond them.

Cheers yeah forgot about the need for nurglepower I thought it was models with the mark of (don't have my dex with me) not daemons of I'm probably going to go telepathy psychs shriek is probably the second best primarice after prescience.

 undertow wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Daemon Princes die in assault anyway, to literally anything that can swing back.

I don't think you understand the definition of the word 'literally'. Either that or you're trolling, because Daemon Princes are generally pretty good in assault.

I never said they die easily, or that they don't kill anything.

I said they die in assault. And they do. I've never seen one survive a game. A sufficient number of otherwise trashy attacks still eventually gets 4 wounds done in a non-trivial amount of time. It's even easier for the Imperium and their "everyone carries krak grenades policy".

Daemon Princes are no kind of unkillable monster, they're not even in the same ballpark as something like a Hive Tyrant.

bobmgee wrote:
Makutsu the problem with pie plating is that they are flying so you'd have to down them first.

I thought that's the formation for first turn, but regardless the 3+ armor is mostly enough.
Nurgle Daemon Princes just aren't to my liking though it feels like lack so much, lack of sweeping sucks a lot especially when you can just sweep hordes down.

The tzeentch reroll helps so much too, reroll 1s on 3+? sweet.
The slaanesh one is good except the Greater Daemon that you have to bring to get them, but meh.

Yeah if I get turn one if my opponent does I'll hide / reserve them

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Daemon Princes die in assault anyway, to literally anything that can swing back.

I don't think you understand the definition of the word 'literally'. Either that or you're trolling, because Daemon Princes are generally pretty good in assault.

I never said they die easily, or that they don't kill anything.

I said they die in assault. And they do. I've never seen one survive a game. A sufficient number of otherwise trashy attacks still eventually gets 4 wounds done in a non-trivial amount of time. It's even easier for the Imperium and their "everyone carries krak grenades policy".

Daemon Princes are no kind of unkillable monster, they're not even in the same ballpark as something like a Hive Tyrant.

Read what I quoted, you said they die to literally anything that can swing back. This includes such CC stars as Eldar Guardians, Guardsmen and Kroot. If that's not hyperbole of just plain trolling I'm not sure what is.

I routinely see my DPs assault into full Sternguard squads and walk away a turn later having wiped the entire squad and taken no wounds in return. The same thing happens with and MEQ really. Krak grenades are a joke when they're hitting on 5's and I get a 3+ save where I can reroll ones (I run Tzeentch DPs).

If you read my post again, you'll also not that I specifically called out MCs that can Smash them for Instant Death as one of the few things I don't want to throw a DP at.

 undertow wrote:

Read what I quoted, you said they die to literally anything that can swing back. This includes such CC stars as Eldar Guardians, Guardsmen and Kroot.

I've seen Daemon Princes killed by all of those specific things. If that is not your experience, we can only disagree.

PS. Accusations of trolling are against the forum rules.

Please leave off calling people trolls. Thanks.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 undertow wrote:

Read what I quoted, you said they die to literally anything that can swing back. This includes such CC stars as Eldar Guardians, Guardsmen and Kroot.

I've seen Daemon Princes killed by all of those specific things. If that is not your experience, we can only disagree.

I realize that dice can make some odd things happen. I've seen a single Fire Warrior kill Abadon. But are you saying that you routinely see Daemon Princes get killed by Guardsmen-equivalent units in assault?

Lol, of course it can die to guardians and such, but how likely is the question, 1A per model striking at 5+ to hit, 6+ to wound 3+ armor and possible 4+FNP, not very likely.

If you're talking about bad dice rolling then a lot of things can happen too.
It's as if you were saying meltas are bad against armor vehicles since they can miss and fail to penetrate by rolling snake eyes for everything.

I don't think it's fair to say the DP is weak at assault due to bad rolling. It's good against a lot of things in CC and certain things are counters to it which is normal.

 Makutsu wrote:
I don't think it's fair to say the DP is weak at assault due to bad rolling. It's good against a lot of things in CC and certain things are counters to it which is normal.

This is exactly the point I'm trying to make.