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My group is about to start a game of Pathfinder within the next month and I'm pretty keen to go back to my Baldurs Gate roots (that probably sounds heretical to some of you, but hey, its how I'm thinking) and take a half-elf rogue/second class (as yet undecided). So I've got a few questions.

1. Will poor choices at character creation really gimp me later in the campaign? Or is it pretty free form in that you can go along any of the sort of paths available and still do well?
2. Are there any skills that you really NEED to get? For example Dodge in some of the Fantasy Flight games is basically a must have, or else your character is going to take a game-ending beating most encounters.
3. Is it worth getting a second class, or are you more likely to end up stuck in some sort of middle ground if that makes sense?
4. What is a good second class to go with? I always went Fighter/Thief in Baldurs Gate, which would translate to Fighter/Rogue in Pathfinder. I want to steer clear of magic use, because we'll have enough of that in our group. Or when you get into dual classes is it really up to the player and his/her desires.

Thanks for your help guys.

Well... not a Pathfinder expert, but I've played enough of it (and hung around with people who are experts) that I feel confident at least taking a stab at a few of the questions. Also, my replies might lead you to believe I have a rather negative opinion of Pathfinder. You would be correct in this assessment. However, it doesn't mean you can't enjoy the game as long as you have a competent GM. I think most of the reason I hate it so much is because I only got the chance to play Pathfinder Society premade scenarios, which are all 90% horrible, and most of the time I had to DM so I was forced to run a bad adventure I didn't care about while watching all the overpowered/strangely balanced glory that are Pathfinder player characters running around in front of me every week.

1. In general Pathfinder has a very high bar for system mastery (i.e. people who make "good" characters have much better characters than people who don't know what to do). This can be a problem if there are people who have different levels of system mastery in the same group, but as long as everybody is on about the same page (and the more experienced people help out the people who aren't as experienced instead of playing optimized characters to hog the spotlight) the DM can adjust difficulty as things go along and it shouldn't be too big of a deal.

Just remember that a high constitution score is almost a must for everybody. just for reference, the "experts" in my group ran Wizards with a +1 or +2 con modifier. Also after a few levels it gets to the point that AC doesn't really matter because everything that actually hurts you will be a saving throw, so don't worry about AC too much unless you can really push it stupid high. (played a 3rd party class called the Armiger which is basically a tank with no offense, but gives defense buffs to his teammates for standing next to him. Such a horrible class and pretty much useless, but I enjoyed having an AC in the 30s and all good saving throws...).

2. The skill list is pretty much "useful but not necessary" unless you're using a build that hinges around a particular skill. For example the broken "diplomancer" that leverages the bloody diplomacy skill to diffuse encounters before they begin (rogues have some options that can help them with this if I recall correctly). Oh, you NEED perception. Um...stealth could be nice on a rogue, but it's almost a useless skill because rule 1 is never split the party and the fighter will alert the entire world to your presence anyway.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking you need to play a rogue to check for traps (heh, did that on accident). Mostly the wizard will be doing that with "detect traps" or whatever other BS spell they get that does your job better than you do (wizards do that a lot). It is again helpful but not necessary.

3. With rogue, you'll want a second class. Rogue is one of those "not so great" classes that people take because they like the idea of playing a rogue. One thing you may very much enjoy in Pathfinder is that the archery fighter is actually a damage king. We had one player who went archery monk/archery fighter and would commonly end encounters in the first round before anyone else even had a chance to get a turn (a cheeseball gunslinger/fighter/wizard did this too only even worse).

You could totally go rogue/archery focused fighter and play up the "shadow assassin" side of the rogue class, depending on how you want to portray the rogue archetype. I once ran a lawful neutral rogue who belonged to a religious order who believed certain objects emitted a magical field that could affect history, and so to change history for a favorable outcome certain objects had to be "liberated" from their traditional positions and placed in other positions of spiritual significance. All because someone said a lawful rogue was impossible...

4. I kind of answered this in 3. Ranged fighter/rogue could be effective, but I'm afraid the majority of that effectiveness would come from your fighter levels instead of your rogue levels. If you don't want to play something with spell slots and don't have the system mastery to think up a cheeseball then doing a lot of damage with the fighter class is about the best idea for you (which isn't a bad idea by any standards. Every group needs a couple people who can actually do damage. I've had pick-up games where all the "experts" brought their control wizards because they let them show off and do the most stuff on the table, but nobody actually brought a class that could do damage, so the encounters took ages and they weren't fun at all since the monsters could do absolutely nothing).

1. Kind of, if you pick something that doesn't fit your class, then you'll regret if, but otherwise not really.
2. I would grab Perception and knowledge local if you can, as both of those are easy for gathering information
3. Usually no, it's not. Taking a second class forces you to stop progression in the first class so in your example, if you're a 4th level fighter and you take a level of rogue you are stopping the +1BAB, and weapon training. Granted you get sneak attack, +2 reflex save, and trap finding and 8 skill points plus intelligence modifier at that level instead of 2 plus int mod. In baldurs gate the fighter thief was a class combination in 2nd edition DnD that you started as and it gained abilities differently than a fighter or a thief. In pathfinder, you have to pick one or the other at level up time. Milti-classing can be worth it, but I find it isn't.
4. Lol I answered most of this in 3. but the choice of a second class is up to the player.

I totally forgot the amazing god-like omniscience that is knowledge(local)...because it instantly lets you know about everywhere as long as you happen to be standing there when you want to know about it.

Yup, so it is somewhat of a good thing that not everyone can take knowledge(local).

Pathfinder is much better when everyone is playing a character that is of an appropriate power level. When you have people too far from the group average it can either suck for them (if they are not very powerful) or suck for everyone else if they are too powerful. Best to ask your group how they plan on playing and get some help on making your character fit.

I've found Diplomacy to be a great skill, especially when it comes to selling stuff. I've rigged my fighter (keeping him pure) to be a charismatic sort, and gave him a trait that made Diplomacy a class skill, so he's just as good as the groups bard in talking himself into or out of situations.

It's helped him seriously talk down the price on some expensive items. Secured mercenary contracts with it. Succesfully talked a goblin tribe into becoming his "thralls", and I've even gotten him to secure ownership of some Thassilonians ruins and a largish tract of land with it.

Not what you'd typically expect of your stock standard Fighter.

A lot of other skills, such as craft and profession depend on your GM and how their going to handle the adventure. Mine likes us to explore our downtime, so having a side profession is helpful in those regards. If your's is more just about the hack and slash, then they probably won't be as necessary.

As others have said, Perception cannot be overrated enough. Only a couple classes have it as a class skill, but if your looking at taking rogue, then your solid.

As for class build, I'd say Rogue/Ranger or Rogue/Fighter would be the best bet. Explore the Archetypes of the two classes, see which would offer the best for you. I've been toying around with a Rogue Knife Master/Ranger Two Weapon fighter. They complement each other very well.

Thanks for all your help guys, I'll probably go Rogue/Ranger. I'll no doubt be back with more questions as I go through generating my character tonight/tomorrow

Ok so, additional questions.

1) Alignment. I've gone with just plain rogue, and I'm wanting him to be a sort of 'balancing force' assassin, entirely beholden to himself in terms of what he does. Is someone mobilising a nation in such a way that they are better off than they ever have been? Good for him. Is this going to radically alter and destabilise the region as the other powers react to this, and possibly lead to all out war? Time for this saviour to meet Mr Crossbow.

If that makes any sense as an idea. So he wants to keep the balance, but if the balance is shifted to evil and he can begin to shift it back, he would, but he'd prefer to find a way to do it gently, rather than just murderise everyone in charge of the evil nation and let things sort themselves out.

So in light of these thoughts I'm thinking that Lawful Neutral suits him best, because while he isn't beholden to the laws of nations, he has a strong personal code which directs his actions and thoughts. Or would Neutral be a better fit.

More to follow over the night no doubt, but the others will probably be a bit more to do with the actual mechanics.

True Neutral might be better I would have thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)#Neutral

Its the fact that it is a purely personal code, yet that he's going to stick to it like god's own word, which is throwing me with it. I'll ask the GM tomorrow when we have our first session, let him have the final say, but I'll tell him I'm leaning towards those 2.

 motyak wrote:
Its the fact that it is a purely personal code, yet that he's going to stick to it like god's own word

Isn't that Chaotic Good? You don't follow man's (or god's) rules, but a personal code.

Lawful Neutral is my suggestion. Your character (from the write up) seems to care about the balance of good vs. evil and less on the law/chaos axis. He has a personal code, he follows the code, etc...

I think if he was about balance in all things, True Neutral would be the way, but because he has a personal code of ethics, I would suggest L/N

@Ahtman: This one is from the L/N bit

A lawful neutral character acts as law, tradition, or a personal code directs her.

L/N would be better. Chaotic Neutral is the ultimate agent of chaos. They follow no rules, even their own.

 djones520 wrote:
L/N would be better. Chaotic Neutral is the ultimate agent of chaos. They follow no rules, even their own.

Most of the people I play with play Chaotic Neutral as "I wanna be a sociopath" and justify all of their actions with, "Well I'm C/N I can do this." After the third or fourth action they've garnered the attention of the constables, and are Chaotic Evil... I usually outlaw Chaotic Neutral since most people don't play it "correctly"

I've always been a fan of the Lawful Neutral alignment. Most of my characters end up falling into that category. It's basically a blanket alignment for "my character has his own moral code that's not reliant on the traditional conceptions of good and evil." Most of my characters fall into the "my country right or wrong" or else "my squad makes it out alive" frames of mind, and don't really care about how that affects the outside world, so lawful neutral for me.

Seriously, LN can be used to pull off as many shenanigans as chaotic neutral if the player is a bit creative.

 motyak wrote:
Its the fact that it is a purely personal code, yet that he's going to stick to it like god's own word, which is throwing me with it. I'll ask the GM tomorrow when we have our first session, let him have the final say, but I'll tell him I'm leaning towards those 2.

I think it would be true neutral as a lawful neutral character imo, would be somewhat respectful of other forms of order even if it means having to break his/her own morals from time to time.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
L/N would be better. Chaotic Neutral is the ultimate agent of chaos. They follow no rules, even their own.

Most of the people I play with play Chaotic Neutral as "I wanna be a sociopath" and justify all of their actions with, "Well I'm C/N I can do this." After the third or fourth action they've garnered the attention of the constables, and are Chaotic Evil... I usually outlaw Chaotic Neutral since most people don't play it "correctly"

It's gotta be a damn hard alignment to play. I've never tried it, probably never will.

 djones520 wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
L/N would be better. Chaotic Neutral is the ultimate agent of chaos. They follow no rules, even their own.

Most of the people I play with play Chaotic Neutral as "I wanna be a sociopath" and justify all of their actions with, "Well I'm C/N I can do this." After the third or fourth action they've garnered the attention of the constables, and are Chaotic Evil... I usually outlaw Chaotic Neutral since most people don't play it "correctly"

It's gotta be a damn hard alignment to play. I've never tried it, probably never will.

For someone to play C/N well, they have to play it amazingly well... Someone that can't really handle the idea either slides towards true neutral, or falls quickly to Chaotic Evil as people tend to think of it as carte blanche to just act out their murderous tendancies that they can't do in polite society...

If I make a neutral character, he or she is always Lawful Neutral.

Early slaanesh worshippers might make decent Chaotic Neutral characters...

Ok I have another question related to the class questions etc from before, and this was still on the first page so I dunno if this counts as a necro or not...fingers crossed it doesn't.

Is there any way to boost accuracy as a rogue? I just played a session where I landed 2 or 3 hits over the course of the entire session. It was a session from one of the books which had 5 encounters, so it wasn't like there was a paucity of chances. So I hit once in nearly half of the encounters. Is there any way to get a second to hit die/'boosted' stats/anything like that? I'm flicking through the book now but I can't find anything, but there must be...right? Or do I just have to wait until I have a lucky session to actually do anything? Admittedly my luck was pretty awful this session, but I've never had bad luck last 4 hours before like that... I don't know I may just be overreacting, does this happen often to rogues in pathfinder?

1)Flanking with the fighter so you both get +2 to hit (also gets your sneak attack damage)

2)getting masterwork weapons (or magic weapons) as those give +1 to your attack roll.

3)Weapon Finesse feat which let's you use your Dex modifier on attack rolls instead of your str mod

4)Weapon Focus feat which gives +1 on attack rolls with that chosen weapon or weapon group.

5)Level up... you'll hit more often as you level up and get a higher base attack bonus

There are also a few magic items which boost dex or archery/other skills/attributes.

If you are fighting two handed, then two handed fighting is a very important feat to get in order to reduce penalties.

Thanks guys, I'll look at picking up weapon finesse/focus when I get the option. We are all level 1 at the moment, so that'll be a while. Hopefully we get to a proper city soon and I can get my special crossbow made...that'll help. If anyone has read the waylander books you'll get why.

For those who haven't its a double winged hand crossbow.

Quick reload might also help you get more shots out per round if you are using a crossbow.

Its only a move action with their hand crossbow I have, so I can load and fire in the one round already.

 motyak wrote:
Its only a move action with their hand crossbow I have, so I can load and fire in the one round already.

Rapid Reload drops the move action needed for a hand crossbow to a free action. What this means is that you can move, fire, and reload in a turn allowing you to get better shots, fire from a dangerous spot with an advantage and move away, etc...

If you're going to be firing into combat a lot (where one of your party members is adjacent to an enemy you're firing at) you should also look at picking up Point Blank Shot and Precises Shot. Point Blank gives you +1 to attack and damage rolls when firing within 30 feet. Precise shot removes the +4 AC bonus the enemy gets for being shot at while in melee.

If you want to pick up these feats faster, there is a Rogue Talent called Extra Feat. Normally at every odd level you get a feat (1st, 3rd, 5th, etc...) Every so often you get a Rogue talent, and can take the "Extra Feat Talent" to get an extra feat. This will help you along as you won't be able to get all 4 of those feats until 9th level if you hadn't taken any of those at first level.

Thanks Alf. I took two weapon fighting at level 1, but I'll probably work along that sort of line from here.