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I thought I'd poke around for tips and opinions on behalf of a friend who's playing vanilla Yu Jing. He's invested in some tiger soldiers and used them several times but their performance has been spotty. Usually, they drop into cover in my deployment zone on turn two, but they tend to scatter into my lof and get shot up (I'm playing vanilla Haqqislam). There is an element of my expecting to see them when we play, so I'm usually leaving a pretty strong rearguard, but I feel like he should be getting a little more milage out of them. So, my question is, how do you folks use your drop troops and what have the results been?

Tigers don't have to use Combat Jump, they can walk in on a board edge with Airborne Infiltration.

With an HMG Tiger they should be in +3 range most of the time so they don't have to come in as close. Make sure he understands the dispersion template. If the Tiger soldier is going to fail his physical because his PH is 13 the scatter can't be in the 1 or 2-3 direction.

The problem is just as you're descibing it - he's playing them risky, dropping them close enough that a scatter can bring them into your LoS. The trick is to drop them somewhere your opponent won't see them, even with a scatter. Once they're down, figure out what you want to go and kill.

Or use AD 2 instead of 3 and bring them in from a table edge.

Only if the unit specifically can only use ONE AD mode, does it have to (such as the AI beacons of the combine and Aleph - which MUST use combat drop during deployment) use that one mode.

AD:3 units can usually use AD:2 also (and AD:1 - parachutist - but you will have to nominate a non-enemy DZ edge to drop into).

AD3 into enemy LoF is going to end badly.
AD3 should only be used if you can do it behind them (and outside of ZoC) and you have an EVO repeater in your army.

As others have said, he can come in via AD2 from any board edge outside of your deployment zone. it is a long skill to come on so he'll have to make sure it's a location that there will be no AROs.

A good portion of it however is likely the fact that he has become predictable. Never a good thing in Infinity.

...which is another reason why you should change lists radically and often.

(... Okay, I'll stop now )

No need to change lists radically. Just swap an AD tiger for a TO hidden deployment Ninja or double model under one camo marker every so often. Keeps your opponent guessing on where that missing model will come from every now and again lol.

 chromedog wrote:
Or use AD 2 instead of 3 and bring them in from a table edge.

Only if the unit specifically can only use ONE AD mode, does it have to (such as the AI beacons of the combine and Aleph - which MUST use combat drop during deployment) use that one mode.

AD:3 units can usually use AD:2 also (and AD:1 - parachutist - but you will have to nominate a non-enemy DZ edge to drop into).

Just remember that you need to choose which mode the AD model is going to use _before_ the game starts. You write if they are using AD2. Normally people assume that the model uses the best (highest number) skill available.

You don't have to pre-declare it, but if you don't you DO run the risk of having the dropship hacked, and then your opponent declaring where you drop to.

I haven't used an AD3 troop as AD3 in ages. AD2 is where it's at.

Although one of my opponents liked using VanZant and AD:X to drop in from my DZ edge. Until the 4 auxilia units guarding that area lit them up with heavy flamethrowers and combi rifles. Nothing left but crunchy bits.

 chromedog wrote:
You don't have to pre-declare it, but if you don't you DO run the risk of having the dropship hacked, and then your opponent declaring where you drop to.

Some people disagree as they say that this tidbit from the "Hacking AD" part of the wiki implies otherwise:

"If the adversary has not any miniature with AD: Combat Jump, or if he has noted they will deploy with AD: Airborne Infiltration, the Level 2, then the Order spent is wasted. Hacking Airborne Deployment cannot be executed in ARO. "

http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Hacking_Airborne_Deployment

This would indeed mean you ought to pre-declare whether you use lvl 2 or lvl 3 as otherwise if the enemy started hacking you'd always say that your troops arrive via lvl 2 to make your enemy waste an order.

That doesn't contradict what chromedog said.

If you've noted down that the model is using AD2 then the aircraft can't be hacked and the model has to walk on.

If you haven't noted down that the model is using AD2 then the model could downgrade to AD2 'on the fly' but the aircraft would be hackable.

This one has been debated several times over at the Infinity forums. The consensus is if you deploy via AD:3 (or don't mark down that you are downgrading) you have the option of dropping via AD:3 or walking on via AD:2, but you will be vulnerable to AD hacking. You may otherwise mark down that you are downgrading to AD:2 and be immune to AD hacking.

I was typically on the side against this and preferred as you state Alk, but this method makes the AD:3 option worth a damn lol. The vast majority of the time AD:2 deployment is superior.

Hmm, I like this interpretation the best, BlueDagger. I think I'll try to enforce it in my community

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I'm seeing some good advice here. AD:2 seems to be the safest route and I guess if he's going to insist on using AD:3, he'll need to invest in an EVO repeater. I suppose part of this is just bad luck on his part. Yesterday, for example, two of his three Tiger Soldiers scattered on landing. The HMG scattered out of (substantial) cover and right into the crosshairs of several rifles. He was gone before he even hit the ground. The Boarding Shotgun rolled a 20 for his PH and ended up way off target. It took several orders to put him back into the fight and he set up what we both thought was a sure kill by climbing up a roof and getting a point blank shot at my Lasiq sniper. The boarding shotgun missed entirely and the poor guy got a face full of nanovirus for his troubles.
Follow up question: Do you guys find that it's most effective to drop in your AD troops asap or hold onto them for an extra turn or two? I think he may be jumping the gun on putting his Tiger Soldiers down. I guess there's a natural tendency to put them in as soon as you're able to get the most use from them, but it seems to me that holding them back may be just as useful, especially if I know they're there. I'll want to move up and get board control, but I'll also be somewhat cautious because I know that any moment a hornet's nest could be descending from behind.

Really depends on the situation. With 3 tiger Soldiers he needs to bring at least some in ASAP since he is starving himself of orders otherwise. If you see an opening, go for it, but don't bring them in just for bringing them in sake unless you need the orders.

Depends on the AD troop, really.

If they're impetuous, I bring them on turn 1, and try to keep them out of LoF. If it means he has to reposition models so they can shoot at them, so much the better for me if it means they don't have LoF to the rest of my stuff who isn't ADing.

I'm running two Garudas for my NCA at the moment. The HMG comes in from an edge AD2 style trying to keep optimum range and stay out of LoF of heavy weapons. He has a choice, ignore them and try to kill my Aquila guards, or kill the garudas.

Good to know on the AD3 vs AD2. Makes AD3 safer.

My Ragik once got 'iced' by an enemy hacker while coming in AD3, landed square in front of an Aleph TAG. It goes without saying that he never got to spend that retirement fund...

From this point on I've generally gone for AD2, at least for a run of games and until my opponent stopped trying to 'ice' my drop troop as a matter of course. But, of course the opposite can apply - if your opponent makes a big effort to protect their flanks against your AD2 guy, then consider mixing it up once in a while.