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In the past, the Cabal predicts Chaos will consume the entire galaxy in 10 or 20 thousand years if the Emperor won instead of Horus. Now it seems like they are right especially with the latest timeline being called "the time of ending" . I guess its safe to say it won't be long until Chaos consumes the entire galaxy. Sure there are other great Xeno threats out there but they all pale in comparison to the reality warping powers of the daemons and the Dark Gods.

And by the way are there any mention of what the Cabal are currently doing now in the present timeline since they're plan has failed?

No, they are Referring to the Tyranids. or the Necrons, or the Orks uniting, or maybe they just meant that when the Emperor comes back it is "The Time of Ending" of the Xenos.

 kinratha wrote:
No, they are Referring to the Tyranids. or the Necrons, or the Orks uniting, or maybe they just meant that when the Emperor comes back it is "The Time of Ending" of the Xenos.

Ehh no.
The Primordial Annihilator that will do so is definitely Chaos.

How exactly are they right? You can't make that kind of fluff assertion without backing it up, which I don't think you can legitimately do at this point.

Not necessarily. Necrons and Tyranids are getting stronger all the time, and both have heavy anti-warp capabilities. Either could potentially win out over Chaos.

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 kinratha wrote:
No, they are Referring to the Tyranids. or the Necrons, or the Orks uniting, or maybe they just meant that when the Emperor comes back it is "The Time of Ending" of the Xenos.

Ehh no.
The Primordial Annihilator that will do so is definitely Chaos.

Can you prove that?

Both the Necrons and Tyranids are a huge threat to the Galaxy.

You can run from Chaos, but The Cons are to fast to out run, and they Nids wont let you off planet.


Edit: They believed it to be Chaos, but it could be any other faction out there.

 kinratha wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 kinratha wrote:
No, they are Referring to the Tyranids. or the Necrons, or the Orks uniting, or maybe they just meant that when the Emperor comes back it is "The Time of Ending" of the Xenos.

Ehh no.
The Primordial Annihilator that will do so is definitely Chaos.

Can you prove that?

Both the Necrons and Tyranids are a huge threat to the Galaxy.

You can run from Chaos, but The Cons are to fast to out run, and they Nids wont let you off planet.

Primordial Annihilator is another name for Chaos, you can look this up in Lexicanum.

Necrons are not limitless, they will fall eventually. There was a battle between a necron dynasty and daemons led by a daemon prince on a necron coreworld. The entire battle was one sided in the daemons favor.
Tyranids are mortal except for the swarmlord i guess but they all need to feed, they are not eternal.

You do know that this was said by the Cabal right? A group of aliens that had nothing to gain from the Emperor winning and going on with crushing all aliens in his second Great Crusade.

If Horus would win they would tear themselves apart, which would probably happen looking at the Eye of Terror in the last 10k years.

So what do the Aliens want, the Imperium winning the Heresy with ease or Horus so that the Imperium is shattered? Well pick the right one, because one means you and all your alien friends are going to get killed off. They would have gotten everything to gain from lying (i.e. Chaos will kill us all), so they would survive Mankinds rise. What they neglected to tell was that the Emperor was a threat to the existence of Chaos. But if the Emperor would win they would die for sure. So.... Cabal lying to save themselves maybe? Aliens lie, its what they do, remember how Eldar would sacrifice a million Humans if it meant saving one Eldar life?

Necrons are not limitless, they will fall eventually. There was a battle between a necron dynasty and daemons led by a daemon prince on a necron coreworld. The entire battle was one sided in the daemons favor.
Tyranids are mortal except for the swarmlord i guess but they all need to feed, they are not eternal.

Was the Tomb world full awake?

and Chaos Needs to feed as well, with out Humans/eldar the gods will die.

Edit: spelling

 kinratha wrote:

Necrons are not limitless, they will fall eventually. There was a battle between a necron dynasty and daemons led by a daemon prince on a necron coreworld. The entire battle was one sided in the daemons favor.
Tyranids are mortal except for the swarmlord i guess but they all need to feed, they are not eternal.

Was the Tomb world full awake?

and Chaos Needs to feed as well, with out Humans/eldar the gods will die.

Edit: spelling

Yes the world was fully awaken since the lords of said dynasty was leading the necron force. You can read this up on Lexicnum.
Even tho this is just one encounter, it will show you just how useless the arcane tech of the necrons are against daemons. It won't be long until Chaos consumes us all.
Tyranids are already out, necron and daemons are probably the hardest thing for tyranids to fight but at least the necrons are physical beings and destroyable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
You do know that this was said by the Cabal right? A group of aliens that had nothing to gain from the Emperor winning and going on with crushing all aliens in his second Great Crusade.

If Horus would win they would tear themselves apart, which would probably happen looking at the Eye of Terror in the last 10k years.

So what do the Aliens want, the Imperium winning the Heresy with ease or Horus so that the Imperium is shattered? Well pick the right one, because one means you and all your alien friends are going to get killed off. They would have gotten everything to gain from lying (i.e. Chaos will kill us all), so they would survive Mankinds rise. What they neglected to tell was that the Emperor was a threat to the existence of Chaos. But if the Emperor would win they would die for sure. So.... Cabal lying to save themselves maybe? Aliens lie, its what they do, remember how Eldar would sacrifice a million Humans if it meant saving one Eldar life?

They could be lying but from how things are turning out now, i would say they are right. Chaos is spreading, Abaddon has plans, the dark gods has plans, daemons are gonna flood the galaxy. The golden throne is failing. Necrons are too divided and even if they are not, they're powerful tech won't do much against the daemonic warp spawns. Tyranids are a big threat but only a big MORTAL threat. The Imperium is finished.

The Necrons cannot rely on their hyper-dimensional phase-jumping abilities to hide from Daemons.

Their own Codex (Codex: Necrons, that is) describes this tactic as being futile against Daemons, who find these other dimensions as "new flavors of reality to corrupt".

Tyranids are already out,

How? what makes them not a threat?

VampireDeLaVega wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
You do know that this was said by the Cabal right? A group of aliens that had nothing to gain from the Emperor winning and going on with crushing all aliens in his second Great Crusade.

If Horus would win they would tear themselves apart, which would probably happen looking at the Eye of Terror in the last 10k years.

So what do the Aliens want, the Imperium winning the Heresy with ease or Horus so that the Imperium is shattered? Well pick the right one, because one means you and all your alien friends are going to get killed off. They would have gotten everything to gain from lying (i.e. Chaos will kill us all), so they would survive Mankinds rise. What they neglected to tell was that the Emperor was a threat to the existence of Chaos. But if the Emperor would win they would die for sure. So.... Cabal lying to save themselves maybe? Aliens lie, its what they do, remember how Eldar would sacrifice a million Humans if it meant saving one Eldar life?

They could be lying but from how things are turning out now, i would say they are right. Chaos is spreading, Abaddon has plans, the dark gods has plans, daemons are gonna flood the galaxy. The golden throne is failing. Necrons are too divided and even if they are not, they're powerful tech won't do much against the daemonic warp spawns. Tyranids are a big threat but only a big MORTAL threat. The Imperium is finished.

Well they did lie didnt they? We know the general direction Chaos would have taken if the Emperor would have won, its why the Chaos Gods put so much effort in the Heresy. The only thing the Cabal did was push the scales into the weird balance. With the Alpha Legion the Heresy would have been 10 vs 8 and an unknown outcome at Istvaan. But due to the Cabal pushing them (AL) they fulfilled their own prophecy, which was exactly what they were trying to prevent (or so they wanted Alpharius to believe). So one could say that due to them lying to the AL this situation has developed and had they not intervened it might be a Golden Age for Mankind. If they knew the real future, wouldnt they have seen this coming. But then again, they didnt have to know the future to see that a victory for the Emperor meant their deaths, so why not lie and take the gamble?

Edit: tl;dr Them lying caused this, else Chaos would not be this strong compared to a weakening Imperium.

VampireDeLaVega wrote:
In the past, the Cabal predicts Chaos will consume the entire galaxy in 10 or 20 thousand years if the Emperor won instead of Horus. Now it seems like they are right especially with the latest timeline being called "the time of ending" . I guess its safe to say it won't be long until Chaos consumes the entire galaxy. Sure there are other great Xeno threats out there but they all pale in comparison to the reality warping powers of the daemons and the Dark Gods.

And by the way are there any mention of what the Cabal are currently doing now in the present timeline since they're plan has failed?

Reality warping powers? Do you mean like:

Ork teleporting back in time to kill himself in order to get another copy of his gun?

Leman russ manages somehow to fit the crew and ammunition inside the tank?

Space marine dreadnought can walk?!?

On a more serious note what race doesn't have reality warping powers? Tau?

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

So what do the Aliens want, the Imperium winning the Heresy with ease or Horus so that the Imperium is shattered?

We know the general direction Chaos would have taken if the Emperor would have won, its why the Chaos Gods put so much effort in the Heresy. The only thing the Cabal did was push the scales into the weird balance. With the Alpha Legion the Heresy would have been 10 vs 8 and an unknown outcome at Istvaan.

Them lying caused this, else Chaos would not be this strong compared to a weakening Imperium.

My thoughts exactly. The Cabal showed Alpharius what they wanted him to see, much like Horus was shown the future without being told that it was his actions that would lead to it.

Another Legion would have tipped the balance in favour of the Emperor.

To all Chaos players, you haven't won yet so stop calling it/for the end times. Yes it's grimdark, yes there is only war. But to have a game totally one sided is not worth playing is it?

I like the grimdark, total war of the setting. But to say all is hopeless with no glimmer of hope is gak. Times are changing, and alot of old fluff is changing with it. Most new players are getting into the game through the HH books. So telling them the old fluff of the setting means largely nothing to them as the HH is their fluff bible, not some 500 or so words penned back in the 80's.

With the HH the writers have an opertunity to reach out to more fan base. And that fan base has a large loyalist following who are getting a bit sick of chaos this, and chaos that. Chaos, chaos, chaos. Boring!

It's the Time of Ending. Everything gets to end.

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
With the HH the writers have an opertunity to reach out to more fan base. And that fan base has a large loyalist following who are getting a bit sick of chaos this, and chaos that. Chaos, chaos, chaos. Boring!

Then maybe they shouldn't be reading the HH series as it is pretty much established that it is the battle between the Imperium and Chaos

I just meant I'm tired or chaos blowing it's own trumpet. Let the rumble between the not so good and evil continue.

 kinratha wrote:

Tyranids are already out,

How? what makes them not a threat?

They clearly are a threat to the Imperium (or what's left of it). Thing is, the tyranids are here to feed. And they apparently don't feed on planets tainted by the immaterium (A hive fleet avoided the Eye completely, I think it's Leviathan). In fact, Chaos might be Mankind's only hope to survive the Tyranids.

I have better things to do than listen to the ramblings of desperate xenos who sought to manipulate both Humanity and Chaos simply because they feared both Humans/Chaos ascendancy. The future is never set in stone; the existence of Tzeentch, the Necrons' lack of fate, and the commonly backfiring manipulations of the Eldar are proof of this.

I don't know if the Cabal lied to the Alpha Legion or were mistaken. They said Horus had to win so humans would burn out quickly and not let the Primordial Devourer destroy the material universe. Before the Tau came along it was always the immaterial realm versus the material one and there would be one last huge war with an outcome that was in question but didn't look favorable.
With the Tau I've always interpreted them as the unexpected quantifier in this equation that would tip the balance. But hey, this isn't science so interpret it how you want.

I don't even know what this "Cabal" is - 999.M41 have been the "End Times" since about 2nd Edition, I believe.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I don't know if the Cabal lied to the Alpha Legion or were mistaken. They said Horus had to win so humans would burn out quickly and not let the Primordial Devourer destroy the material universe. Before the Tau came along it was always the immaterial realm versus the material one and there would be one last huge war with an outcome that was in question but didn't look favorable.
With the Tau I've always interpreted them as the unexpected quantifier in this equation that would tip the balance. But hey, this isn't science so interpret it how you want.

It's always been a question on whether you believe the cabal or not. Did that lie to the Alpha Legion to get them to turn to chaos (thereby giving humanity/Imperium a mercifully quick death) or were the telling the truth. The latter seems accurate given how things have been going for the Imperium since the Horus Heresy ended - a slow, painful waning. So, given the fluff, the cabal seems legit. But, given that Horus failed, you'd think that the Alpha Legion would have stopped fighting for chaos sometime in the past 10,000 years if they really just turned out of some sense of mercy.

 Traejun wrote:

The latter seems accurate given how things have been going for the Imperium since the Horus Heresy ended - a slow, painful waning.

The Istvaanite faction of the Inquisition would disagree.

 Traejun wrote:
It's always been a question on whether you believe the cabal or not. Did that lie to the Alpha Legion to get them to turn to chaos (thereby giving humanity/Imperium a mercifully quick death) or were the telling the truth. The latter seems accurate given how things have been going for the Imperium since the Horus Heresy ended - a slow, painful waning. So, given the fluff, the cabal seems legit. But, given that Horus failed, you'd think that the Alpha Legion would have stopped fighting for chaos sometime in the past 10,000 years if they really just turned out of some sense of mercy.

They werent right, they never were. They said that if the AL didnt join Horus, it would be a slow painfull death over 10k years. They convinced Alpharius to join Horus and it still happened. They just lied to save themselves against the genocidal Great Crusade.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Traejun wrote:
It's always been a question on whether you believe the cabal or not. Did that lie to the Alpha Legion to get them to turn to chaos (thereby giving humanity/Imperium a mercifully quick death) or were the telling the truth. The latter seems accurate given how things have been going for the Imperium since the Horus Heresy ended - a slow, painful waning. So, given the fluff, the cabal seems legit. But, given that Horus failed, you'd think that the Alpha Legion would have stopped fighting for chaos sometime in the past 10,000 years if they really just turned out of some sense of mercy.

They werent right, they never were. They said that if the AL didnt join Horus, it would be a slow painfull death over 10k years. They convinced Alpharius to join Horus and it still happened. They just lied to save themselves against the genocidal Great Crusade.

Xenocidal actually. The Emperor himself disapproved of the deaths of lots of Humans, hence his alarm at the atrocities committed by Angron even before the Horus Heresy. And yes, the Cabal is dead wrong. The Imperium is actually not as weak as people seem to think. Actually, it's stronger than it ever was, despite the loss of certain technologies. It only looks weaker because all of its old enemies and some new ones are ganging up on it all at once and on a much larger scale than ever before.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Traejun wrote:
It's always been a question on whether you believe the cabal or not. Did that lie to the Alpha Legion to get them to turn to chaos (thereby giving humanity/Imperium a mercifully quick death) or were the telling the truth. The latter seems accurate given how things have been going for the Imperium since the Horus Heresy ended - a slow, painful waning. So, given the fluff, the cabal seems legit. But, given that Horus failed, you'd think that the Alpha Legion would have stopped fighting for chaos sometime in the past 10,000 years if they really just turned out of some sense of mercy.

They werent right, they never were. They said that if the AL didnt join Horus, it would be a slow painfull death over 10k years. They convinced Alpharius to join Horus and it still happened. They just lied to save themselves against the genocidal Great Crusade.

Xenocidal actually. The Emperor himself disapproved of the deaths of lots of Humans, hence his alarm at the atrocities committed by Angron even before the Horus Heresy. And yes, the Cabal is dead wrong. The Imperium is actually not as weak as people seem to think. Actually, it's stronger than it ever was, despite the loss of certain technologies. It only looks weaker because all of its old enemies and some new ones are ganging up on it all at once and on a much larger scale than ever before.

Actually genocidal is a perfectly valid word, from both xenos and human perspective on the Great Crusade. Genocide is quite a broad term encompassing much of the Great Crusade, like crushing indigenous human cultures etc. So you could label the Greaet Crusade as genocidal. I dont know if the Imperium would qualify as stronger than it erver was though. Compared to the Imperium during the Great Crusade the 40k Imperium is weaker by some degree. They have gone from a massive offensive in 200 years to almost 10k years of stalemate with the rest of the galaxy. My main point would be that without the Cabal's intervention we probably only would have 40K: The Imperium succes story. As the Cabal pushed the Heresy from a likely victory for Imperial forces to an evenly matched war.

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
To all Chaos players, you haven't won yet so stop calling it/for the end times. Yes it's grimdark, yes there is only war. But to have a game totally one sided is not worth playing is it?

I like the grimdark, total war of the setting. But to say all is hopeless with no glimmer of hope is gak. Times are changing, and alot of old fluff is changing with it. Most new players are getting into the game through the HH books. So telling them the old fluff of the setting means largely nothing to them as the HH is their fluff bible, not some 500 or so words penned back in the 80's.

With the HH the writers have an opertunity to reach out to more fan base. And that fan base has a large loyalist following who are getting a bit sick of chaos this, and chaos that. Chaos, chaos, chaos. Boring!

Sadly the setting being Grimdark means just that, it is all hopeless. The races are just trying to hold on as long as possable.

Noir wrote:

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
To all Chaos players, you haven't won yet so stop calling it/for the end times. Yes it's grimdark, yes there is only war. But to have a game totally one sided is not worth playing is it?

I like the grimdark, total war of the setting. But to say all is hopeless with no glimmer of hope is gak. Times are changing, and alot of old fluff is changing with it. Most new players are getting into the game through the HH books. So telling them the old fluff of the setting means largely nothing to them as the HH is their fluff bible, not some 500 or so words penned back in the 80's.

With the HH the writers have an opertunity to reach out to more fan base. And that fan base has a large loyalist following who are getting a bit sick of chaos this, and chaos that. Chaos, chaos, chaos. Boring!

Sadly the setting being Grimdark means just that, it is all hopeless. The races are just trying to hold on as long as possable.

Hopelessness is fitting for the state of the IoM. They've been on nearly pure defensive for 10,000 years - or at least since the end of the Scouring. Little expansion, some significant contraction/loss at the hands of the Tau and 'nids. They're fighting a losing battle in which moments of advantage seem more and more fleeting. The IoM is essentially a dying giant that has become everything the Emperor abhorred.

As for some of the reply posts earlier - the cabal "seems" right given the last 10,000 years. It doesn't mean they were/are.