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This is why we have the right to bear arms. I'm sorry, it may not be 100% the right answer, but I would have told these dudes that if they come in they'll be received by a wall of lead. While I recorded every second of it. What they did was HIGHLY illegal, and on a personal level I would not stand by and allow this to happen to me EVER.
"You are judged in life, not by the evil you destroy, but by the light you bring to the darkness" - Reclusiarch Grimaldus of the Black Templars
This is why we have the right to bear arms. I'm sorry, it may not be 100% the right answer, but I would have told these dudes that if they come in they'll be received by a wall of lead. While I recorded every second of it. What they did was HIGHLY illegal, and on a personal level I would not stand by and allow this to happen to me EVER.
That video was incredibly disturbing, the fear is palpable. I can't believe what I just watched, I hope the officers involved get the book thrown at them.
This is why we have the right to bear arms. I'm sorry, it may not be 100% the right answer, but I would have told these dudes that if they come in they'll be received by a wall of lead. While I recorded every second of it. What they did was HIGHLY illegal, and on a personal level I would not stand by and allow this to happen to me EVER.
That video was incredibly disturbing, the fear is palpable. I can't believe what I just watched, I hope the officers involved get the book thrown at them.
From the other side of the ponds PoV:
Put your camera down about 10 seconds in, do not talk back, do not aggrevate them, let them break the door down but let them find you prostrate with your hands behind your head. Tell your mom to go to her bedroom and stay still/unagressive. Tell them she is 65(?).
Im serious, this view is going to rile up some people but heres the point:
The police were obviously jacked for the raid (sure, they got the house wrong - agreed) but they believed what was inside was potentially a mortal threat to them and their colleagues (read: team/friends). Dont do anything to aggrieve them.
Lets be clear: they were 110% in the wrong, its a scary scary video but the residents reactions did not help.
What if he had a semi auto and flipped out due to impulse/fear. You're looking at mass homicide then.
I know, its nothing like Ireland but my friend is a Garda over here in Dublin and some of the "raid" stories he would tell are downright scary (as a police officer).
Once again: the cops were wrong but take it (a little bit from their pint of view). It could have been a well armed crack den they were hitting (their intelligence sucked).
This is why we have the right to bear arms. I'm sorry, it may not be 100% the right answer, but I would have told these dudes that if they come in they'll be received by a wall of lead.
Then D, you and your mom are dead. You wont fight off 10 well armed/trained SWAT guys.
Worth it over a gross misunderstanding??? Seriously?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/09 21:50:51
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
Ratius wrote: Then D, you and your mom are dead. You wont fight off 10 well armed/trained SWAT guys.
Worth it over a gross misunderstanding??? Seriously?
firehead said he would have shot at the cops, not d-usa, but yes, it would have been suicide by cop for sure. It seems a bit obtuse to say the Second Amendment was created to shoot at stupid policemen.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Im was only trying to give a different perspective on things. I just dont see how aggrevation works in this case, no matter how injust/wrong the action is.
You are/might/will get shot/thumped to death.
I know, its a different culture/ideology, I accept that 100%.
I just think life, sometimes overrides ideas/rights?
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
Ratius wrote: Then D, you and your mom are dead. You wont fight off 10 well armed/trained SWAT guys.
Worth it over a gross misunderstanding??? Seriously?
firehead said he would have shot at the cops, not d-usa, but yes, it would have been suicide by cop for sure. It seems a bit obtuse to say the Second Amendment was created to shoot at stupid policemen.
It's about as close as we would get to shooting at corrupt government officials.
Ratius wrote: Sorry, I got my quote wrong, apologies D.
Im was only trying to give a different perspective on things. I just dont see how aggrevation works in this case, no matter how injust/wrong the action is.
You are/might/will get shot/thumped to death.
I know, its a different culture/ideology, I accept that 100%.
I just think life, sometimes overrides ideas/rights?
What do you think should happen to the officers involved?
If they thought they were in mortal danger they would not have been standing in front of the house for 30 minutes where they could be shot and giving me plenty of time to trap the house.
Ok D, Im not going to get into the specifics, agreed, 30 mins is silly time outside a "crack house". But the point about non aggrevation is still valid.
What do you think should happen to the officers involved?
Well firstly their intel guys need to be at least suspended if not let go. (thats my humble opinion).
For the cops on the ground: cmon man, do what? Suspend them? dock pay? desk job?
I assume these guys were elite SWAT that got bad intel? Can you fire 5-10 of your best for one bad raid?
Genuinely Im not some bleeding heart liberal, they were out of order especially after the breach but what to do?
I dont know, I dont live in the US, what would usually happen to excessive force? (Over here its one for all and all for one. Our Ombudsman battles ever week with what to do (trusty me, two very close friends work in it).
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
People are incredulous when I openly state that I distrust the police. This is one of those reasons why. Sure, it's one in a very large number, but how do I know I'm not going to be that lucky guy.
Ratius wrote: I assume these guys were elite SWAT that got bad intel? Can you fire 5-10 of your best for one bad raid?
You can, and you should if they have any responsibility for the mistake. Maybe if raiding the wrong house meant losing 5-10 of your best people would start paying more attention and stop making mistakes like this.
And TBH everyone involved should be facing murder charges, just like if they'd been civilians breaking into a house to rob it. Getting off with nothing more than losing a job is incredibly generous.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/10 00:00:53
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
And TBH everyone involved should be facing murder charges, just like if they'd been civilians breaking into a house to rob it. Getting off with nothing more than losing a job is incredibly generous.
Forgive me, who was shot/murdered here? (genuine question, the video got dark/blurry at the end) How are they facing murder charges? I thought it was a brutal arrest not a shooting?
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
And TBH everyone involved should be facing murder charges, just like if they'd been civilians breaking into a house to rob it. Getting off with nothing more than losing a job is incredibly generous.
Forgive me, who was shot/murdered here? (genuine question, the video got dark/blurry at the end) How are they facing murder charges? I thought it was a brutal arrest not a shooting?
The link d posted was a different occurence, check the first post for the link.
As I said on the warrior cop thread, the guys in charge should be held personally reponsable with all their assets on the civil suit.
If we cannot send them to jail for their mistakes at least hurt them financialy not the city/county/tax payers so other LEO around the country will start using their heads to think before kicking down doors and killing people.
M.
Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though."
Apologies, I did not see that one - I was answering most of my questions VS D's link.
Uhhm , being honest I dont want to watch the homocide one, very very dark for me.
Ok, I'll bow out here.
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
Having the two different incidents has muddled responses a bit by creating some confusion as to which one was being referred to.
In OPs the man was right to shoot at the intruders, and was a rational response.
In the second where it is the police banging on the door and being donkey-caves, it would extremely foolish to open fire on them, for a plethora of reasons.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Police are people too. They can be corrupt and crooked just as much as a burglar. I would treat them like any other intruder attempting to enter my house illegally. Failure to explain and show that they had a warrant, or providing their probably cause for entering my house results in violence from me. I would gladly tell the 9-1-1 operator my intention if they enter my house without my explicit permission(as required by law) if they don't have a warrant or reasonable probably cause. What is the difference in the two stories mentioned? Other than the fact that one person actually died from what I am saying, there is none. What is illegal is illegal.
Being a police officer is NOT a free pass. Ever.
"You are judged in life, not by the evil you destroy, but by the light you bring to the darkness" - Reclusiarch Grimaldus of the Black Templars
All joking aside, this is sort of a regularthing. At least they didn't run over anyone's dog with a tank this time.
Firehead158 wrote: Police are people too. They can be corrupt and crooked just as much as a burglar. I would treat them like any other intruder attempting to enter my house illegally. Failure to explain and show that they had a warrant, or providing their probably cause for entering my house results in violence from me. (snip)
Being a police officer is NOT a free pass. Ever.
1.) Let us know how the former works out for you.
2.) And for the latter, the exception to that is pretty much every time ever.
There is a video of a copy in the city I'm working in beating the hell out of a suspected shoplifter, and the argument he made in his defense was "she looked like she was willing to fight". Seriously, a grown ass man actually went with that. Also, that she bit his finger after he started pummeling her so totally justified.
The result? The department says "they were disciplined" for not following procedure, but they're still on the job. Which is how it goes pretty much every time.
The fact is if you're a cop and you break the law, unless you murder someone, the worst you'll face is a taxpayer-funded vacation paid suspension, and hell, sometimes you can murder people with impunity, too, as long as it was the socially acceptable kind of person to murder.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/10 08:15:38
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
d-usa wrote: If they thought they were in mortal danger they would not have been standing in front of the house for 30 minutes where they could be shot and giving me plenty of time to trap the house.
That's what I was wondering about, also. I would have thought the door would have been kicked in within the first couple of minutes or cops coming in through the back. I was interested in what the woman was talking about in that the raid was in retaliation for something that happened previously.
Definitely one of those more to the story items that don't seem to make the cops look good.
I still can't believe someone wouldn't double check their intel...
I obviously do not know the circumstances/specific intel they got in this case, but verifying what a snitch gives you through other sources or technical means takes time (and other resources) they may not have had. Additionally, perhaps this particular snitch has been very reliable in the past so the cops had no reason to believe they needed to expend resources to confirm?
We just don't know. What we do know is the cops killed some poor schmuck because they screwed up.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Miguelsan wrote: As I said on the warrior cop thread, the guys in charge should be held personally reponsable with all their assets on the civil suit.
If we cannot send them to jail for their mistakes at least hurt them financialy not the city/county/tax payers so other LEO around the country will start using their heads to think before kicking down doors and killing people.
M.
I partially disagree. Destroying the specific cops financially if you can't prosecute them may be a good thing, but also punishing the city/county that hired the police leadership that allow these things to happen is good too. Let them know if they have police that screw up they will be hammered in a civil court. Make the municipality/county gov't responsible for ensuring their LE force has good procedures/regulations and training that prevent incidents like this. Make it so frickin expensive that they reign in cowboy LE tactics for fear of bankruptcy. Additionally, during the next election cycle, any elected officials that allow poor LE policies to exist and don't fix existing bad ones should be voted out of office and replaced.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/12 15:04:44
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
CptJake wrote: I obviously do not know the circumstances/specific intel they got in this case, but verifying what a snitch gives you through other sources or technical means takes time (and other resources) they may not have had. Additionally, perhaps this particular snitch has been very reliable in the past so the cops had no reason to believe they needed to expend resources to confirm?
It was a drug raid. We aren't talking about a suspected murder about to happen or some other time-critical thing where you have to act now or else. The worst "consequence" for waiting to confirm the information would be allowing the suspect to destroy evidence. That's not even close to enough to justify risking lives, either confirm beyond any reasonable doubt that you've got the right suspect, that there is a plausible threat that requires an armed raid, and that there is no option to just wait until everyone leaves the house before searching it. If you can't do that then too bad, you don't get to arrest someone for having drugs.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
This is why we have the right to bear arms. I'm sorry, it may not be 100% the right answer, but I would have told these dudes that if they come in they'll be received by a wall of lead. While I recorded every second of it. What they did was HIGHLY illegal, and on a personal level I would not stand by and allow this to happen to me EVER.
That video was incredibly disturbing, the fear is palpable. I can't believe what I just watched, I hope the officers involved get the book thrown at them.
Elevated position overwatching onto a fatal funnel. That video is prime evidence why every man needs a rifle with a "high capacity magazine".
