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I like it for what it does. Lets say you overcharge it (oh noes gets hot!) now you have 12 shots. So on average 2 MABYE 3 gets hot saves when shooting. With a 2 up and 5 wounds, its pretty neglegable, even more so if you took stim injectors. 1/6 = 16.6 precent chance to get hot. Now you take the chance to fail that save as also being 16.6. So you have an 8.3 precent chance to be wounded. Throw stim injectors on and your down to 5.47 precent chance to actually take a wound, or roughly one in 20 shots. Now lets see what chances it has to hurt av 14, something usually reserved for longstrike or deepstriking fusion suits occasionally. 12 shots, lets say at your basic BS, without pathfinder aid. That's 6 hits. Per 6 you then roll another dice, and have at least an 83.4 precent chance for a glance, and 66.8 precent chance for a pen! To compare longstrike has a 66.8 precent chance to glance, and 50 precent chance to pen, although at longer range, but more vulnerable of a firing platform.

Now I will admit the ion accelerator has a greater chance of dealing with termies and marines, but if you are already running 2 riptides, its something to think about at least. At my store, at least 4 or 5 people still like their av 14 in the form of 2 landraider blood angels, monolith driving necrons, triple battlewagon orks, or imperial guard tank spam.

So don't write it off as an always pass for the ion. Its not nearly as good at tank killing.



Bah I give up, wont let me throw my pic in.


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Also if you boost it to say bs 5 the chances of getting two rends goes way up. Longstrike has no way at all to get 2 unless he uses the 3 shots from the ion cannon, I have never seen anyone use him with anything other than the railgun though.

The problem isn't getting hot when shooting (as you've said, 2+ with FNP is great for stopping that), it's that you need to spend your nova charge and roll a 3+ to make it work, and if you fail you have a pretty disappointing weapon. On the other hand you can shoot the ion gun at full effectiveness (against most targets) on a 2+ with your nova charge available for one of the other options if you want them.

I make your mathhammer off by a little. There's a (1/6 x 1/6) chance of any given shot getting hot and causing a wound. That's actually only 1 in 36 shots, increasing to 1 in 54 with the Injector.

But the odds of a glance/pen are off as well. Against AV14, (without a BS boost) you're going to get one glance and one pen out of every 36 shots. (36 shots, 18 hits, 3 6s on those 18, a 1, a 2 and a 3 for the extra Rend penetration giving one glance, one pen)

So unless you're splatting large numbers of medium armour (Tyranid Warriors, medium Aspect Warriors etc), take the Ion Accelerator.

The main problem with the heavy burst cannon for me is that it just doesn't do much that the rest of your army can't already do better. At ap4 it can't hunt down heavy infantry, at s6 it is not reliable anti-av and at only 12 shots it is not good anti-hord. Whats worst you need to nova charge the gun every turn to make it useful.

I'd rather use the Nova Engine for big moves and invulnerable saves than for the charged up weapons myself.

If you have the Earth Caste Pilot Array, it also helps since it rerolls 1s to hit and failed nova reactor activations from the Farsight supplement.

I second that. a farsight enclave would want a single riptide with HBC and ECPA (it even makes it slightly more accurate at shooting )

What I think many people miss about that gun is that it works on volume, and volume equals predictability.
You can predict how it will fare off every time ahead.

And while its no a perfect AT tool, not a perfect anti-TEQ, not a perfect anti-MC, not a perfect anti-transport, not a perfect anti-horde, etc, etc...he is "not a perfect" in pretty much anything, but he is also never, EVER useless.
Give him a target, he WILL threaten it. whatever it is. as long the nova charged profile is up at least.

He's an all-purpose gun. not to be confused with the anti-heavy-targets ion accelerator.

 Nilok wrote:
If you have the Earth Caste Pilot Array, it also helps since it rerolls 1s to hit and failed nova reactor activations from the Farsight supplement.

It makes it more consistent, sure, but it doesn't change the fundamental problem that you have to spend your one nova charge activation to make your gun useful instead of spending it on one of the other things.

I find it a higher risk higher reward personally. Usually i have the buffmander with him because it makes him much more killy than most other units i could slap him with (hes not there the entire game though). When i do pass the novacharge i usually feel like he did much more damage than the IA does (even without the buffmander following him around) but therein lies the problem - "when i do pass the novacharge" - the IA doesnt require it so i'll go 2-3 turns and not even attempt it with them. Much safer, but at least in my experience slightly less effective except against a termie ball (which i rarely come across when i field tau)

HBC isnt a perfect alternative but it works, i used it mainly because its different and works. I have better luck with it with just marker support killing vehicles than the IA does, but that might just be my dice favoring me.

True, but how often will you NEED the others?

The invul? not relevant as you are not a target of choice, and if they do focus it-you are probably going to win as it is a bad choice.

The jump? with his range, 2d6 is enough.

Ripple? if you need that, you don't need the main gun anyway.

there's no awesome weapon without some sort of payoff and risk...

i actually use the double offhand quite a bit because i send my riptides, both IA and HBC, down my opponents throat unless its a crazy assault squad in the way. Double SMS shots tacked onto a pi plate can put a lot of wounds out, or double melta pretty much guarantees that vehicle is dead (mainly fire this at fliers though).

But you are right the invul is pointless. Literally the only time you should take it is if he gets locked in combat and they can pen his armor, which ive never had him stay locked in combat before so those odds are probably kinda low lol. 3D6 is an emergency type thing like he has some tarpit or AP2 wielding dude capable of getting a charge unless you get away and want better insurance on that dice roll (rolling snakeeyes on thrust move has lost me my riptide a couple of times lol)

i wonder how a riptide with heavy burst cannon would work as a anti-air gun.....

The Ion Accelerator is just so insanely flexible. The STR 8/AP 2 Large Blast takes many of the current popular choices off the board quickly (especially with ignores cover). You don't need to nova charge it for it to be useful. It serves as a very potent anti-deep strike weapon with interceptor, erasing any deep striking squads with a pie plate the second they arrive. It has twice the range, allowing the use of Interceptor no matter where your opponent's units arrive from. All in all, the only time I could see the Heavy Burst Cannon as viable is if you have the Earth Caste upgrade. Even then, the Ion Accelerator is still the better choice in my mind.

Technically it works, but you need a bit of help. Intercepter + Skyfire so he hits his 12 shots on 4+ rolls (nova charge DOES continue until the next tau turn btw) youre going to hit about half of them and probably roll 1-3 rends, which are auto pens against AV12. Buffmander helps because Tankhunter is a static rule and unlike the rest of the buffmander stuff this one does work on shootings outside the shooting phase. It has far better odds than the IA riptide thats fore sure but thats just because the number of shots lol.
Usually if i think about stuff like that i just grab dice and start throwing assuming certain situations (usually the worst) rather than mathhammering it.

Missilesides will always be the best AA but their problem is range, and i hate castling up. Contemplating bringing Shadowsun so i can outflank a group of missilesides and be on the offensive with them (A Wild Lv36 Missilepod Has Appeared!) just because i feel like every time i field them for their normal purpose, they do nothing because theyre outranged.

 BoomWolf wrote:
True, but how often will you NEED the others?

All the time. TBH you should probably be nova charging every turn.

The invul? not relevant as you are not a target of choice, and if they do focus it-you are probably going to win as it is a bad choice.

Err, what? Since when are Riptides not a priority target?

The jump? with his range, 2d6 is enough.

It's not about getting into range, it's about keeping away from incoming threats. A 4D6" assault move, combined with a 6" move in the movement phase, means that very few units can catch your Riptide.

Ripple? if you need that, you don't need the main gun anyway.

Double-firing SMS with the heavy BC would be great, if you could actually do it. Just like double-firing plasma with an ion pie plate against heavy infantry.


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 Vineheart01 wrote:
Missilesides will always be the best AA but their problem is range, and i hate castling up. Contemplating bringing Shadowsun so i can outflank a group of missilesides and be on the offensive with them (A Wild Lv36 Missilepod Has Appeared!) just because i feel like every time i field them for their normal purpose, they do nothing because theyre outranged.

So then why are you advocating a HBC Riptide that has the exact same 36" range?

1-yes, but novaing for the main gun, not the other stuff.

2-he is, sometimes. but that's silly. other units can dish out more damage compared to how tough they are to kill. the riptide is though, but that's his main virtue. his damage is not as amazing people put him to be. not without support (who are easier and more important to kill.)

3-you missed the point, the fact is that with 30" range on HBC-SMS riptide, and moving away 6+2d6" each turn, you would never get caught anyway unless you let it happen. you never have to come close from the firstplace-you are not a crisis.

4-yes, it would be even stronger. but not NEEDED. you confuse need with want. NEED is when you use fusion on a tank. that extra shot becomes even more important then the main gun.

5-because riptides move quite well-jet packs and MC stats do that, while broadsides are sorta shut down when they move because they are not relentless. (that new model really does not match the rules...looks cool, but should belong to a higher profile unit. its just too massive for his almost crisis-suit stats, and there is no way the gun is a mere S8AP1 by apperance.)

Riptide atleast isnt forced to stand still. Its usually in the middle of the board and 36" from the middle-ish of the board is basically board-wide range, no flier would escape that and still be able to do anything that turn (except in very weird situations maybe).

How many people move the missilesides? Unless its crazy terrain heavy board every time i move them something picks them off. Who the hell would shoot at the riptide even if he is an AA platform in the middle of the board? if anything they'd charge it, which he can get away from.

 Commander_Nightflier wrote:
i wonder how a riptide with heavy burst cannon would work as a anti-air gun.....

Honestly its a better choice than the Iontide for skyfire.

If I run an Iontide it has plas/fusion and EWO to say screw you terminators or other such silliness wanting to deepstrike my lines. And when not dealing with that it has better targets on the board than fireing at flyers.

The HBC on the other hand has great capability against flyers, even if it is not nova charged, only problem becomes cost at this point. The Iontide above costs 190 points and has a pretty defined role. HBC with VT, EWO, and possibly stimms starts to get really expensive, 205-240 points, but still less than a full broadside squad with VTs. And as others have pointed out its still only AP4. At str 6 it can wound but with its armor pen. it is just in a weird zone for targets to shoot at.

I guess I look at the Iontide as a surgical tool and HBC as a hammer. Both have thier merits, I just wish I would stop seeing people put the VTs on Iontides.

I usually put the VT on the Ion tide for the ability to take out Flying MC's, that thing would scare the crap out of a flyrant.

I don't put riptides in my list, mostly because it's an expensive kit and I don't have one.
But I like the idea of a giant dakka cannon. I got the chance to use someone else's model, and it was fun. The HBC was flexible enough that I could press it into shooting at tanks as well as messing up infantry. And even without the nova charge, 8 shots is nothing to sneeze at.
But I had pretty terrible luck and every time i fired i would get hot three or four times. It was pretty annoying... But it got me thinking, without marker support or twin-linking, the IA can still get hot on the blasts, and though it's not likely, losing the entire shot can really throw a wrench in your plans. With the HBC you are pretty much guaranteed that at least a couple shots get through.

I did the math in another thread about it.
IA has an 83% chance to fire
it scatters 66% of the time
And has a 60% chance for the center of the blast to scatter outside the initial position or what I consider off target.

The Burst cannon gets 12 shots with a 50% chance to hit
with a 17% chance to get a 6
and a 33% chance to get 3 on an additional d3,

However with markerlights I can reduce the spread and even get a reroll on the gets hot, and I generally use markerlights on my Riptide since I plan on removing cover.

The HBC however really only shines on getting rending shots against armor, which can only be given by equipping an IC to grant Tank Hunter to the unit. It just doesn't really seem to be that great to me or even cost effective.