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Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




So youre saying they are not locked until you check to see if they are locked? That is the basis of your argument?

The rule IS in effect, because it states "ARE" locked. Not "are locked when you check this rule"
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Silver Spring, MD

If you were replying to me, no I'm not saying that. I'm saying the rule IS in effect at all times and can be referenced anytime, but if you are given specific instructions to break it, such as completing a charge move, you obviously should break it. Sloppy writing but it's the only logical way to interpret things.

Battlefleet Gothic ships and markers at my store, GrimDarkBits:
 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





nosferatu1001 wrote:
So youre saying they are not locked until you check to see if they are locked? That is the basis of your argument?

You say that like it's changed. It hasn't.

The rule IS in effect, because it states "ARE" locked. Not "are locked when you check this rule"

All rules only apply when checked. Saying otherwise is a basic failure to understand how the rules work.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

rigeld2 wrote:
 DeathReaper wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
 DeathReaper wrote:
So units are not locked when they have one or more models in base contact with an enemy?

The rules disagree.

That's not what I said. Do not misrepresent my position.
Units are locked when you have permission to check if they are locked.

The rules disagree with you.

Units are locked when they have a model in base contact with an enemy. (Page 23 tells us this)

Got anything else because you have shown no rules that agree with your assertation.

You're applying a rule without it being referenced. That's not how the rules actually work. It can't be.
Page 23 defines locked. It does not say that it's a continuous effect.
It does not need to say it is a continuous effect, it is an "If Then" statement. If at any time the condition is fulfilled then the effects are applied.

But you have to check if you are locked when making a normal move, as "Units that have one or more models in base contact with enemies are locked in combat." (23)

So if you are moving a model you have to check to make sure the unit is not locked in combat.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/20 14:45:19


"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in im
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot





rigeld2 wrote:

All rules only apply when checked. Saying otherwise is a basic failure to understand how the rules work.


again, and I am startnig to get annoyed that you have been ignoring me, at what point do you 'check' to see if a unit has a Special Rule such as furious charge? you don't, the charge step and the fight step do not cover it, the models simply 'have' it.

the very fact that locked in combat is refered to being in base contact is very clear, once you are in base contact you are locked. this is an ongoing state as you are in base to base contact until you aren't.

you either are in base to base (so you are locked) or your not in base to base (not locked) its very simple and is effectivly a light switch.

each charge is resolved indavidually, people have given you the break down now numerous times regarding overwatch, the simple fact is, you can only overwatch once per turn, you can only do so when not locked in combat, you are locked in combat once a charge is completed against you.

all models in a unit that has charged are given specific movement instructions that happen in the charge sub-phase that allow them to finish the move once the unit is locked in combat, any and all further movement is pile in moves. this will continue until either one unit is destroyed, or they fail a moral test due to loosing the combat and escape.

what more is there? you cannot shoot in any following shooting phases due to being locked in combat, you cannot fire overwatch later in the phase as you are locked in combat (presuming the first unit charged sucessfully and you didn't fire overwatch) and you certainly cannot move in any following movement phases due to being locked. the only movement allowed after being locked are pile in moves.
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





 DeathReaper wrote:
It does not need to say it is a continuous effect, it is an "If Then" statement. If at any time the condition is fulfilled then the effects are applied.

It really does need to say that. Again - and you've refused to answer this before so why I'm asking again I'm not sure - why are you applying an effect without some rule telling you to?

But you have to check if you are locked when making a normal move, as "Units that have one or more models in base contact with enemies are locked in combat." (23)

So if you are moving a model you have to check to make sure the unit is not locked in combat.

The bolded is incorrect. You move as a unit. You have zero rules support for making the check during movement. The check was made prior to movement.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in gb
Tough Tyrant Guard





SHE-FI-ELD

 nutty_nutter wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:

All rules only apply when checked. Saying otherwise is a basic failure to understand how the rules work.


again, and I am startnig to get annoyed that you have been ignoring me, at what point do you 'check' to see if a unit has a Special Rule such as furious charge? you don't, the charge step and the fight step do not cover it, the models simply 'have' it.

the very fact that locked in combat is refered to being in base contact is very clear, once you are in base contact you are locked. this is an ongoing state as you are in base to base contact until you aren't.

you either are in base to base (so you are locked) or your not in base to base (not locked) its very simple and is effectivly a light switch.

each charge is resolved indavidually, people have given you the break down now numerous times regarding overwatch, the simple fact is, you can only overwatch once per turn, you can only do so when not locked in combat, you are locked in combat once a charge is completed against you.

all models in a unit that has charged are given specific movement instructions that happen in the charge sub-phase that allow them to finish the move once the unit is locked in combat, any and all further movement is pile in moves. this will continue until either one unit is destroyed, or they fail a moral test due to loosing the combat and escape.

what more is there? you cannot shoot in any following shooting phases due to being locked in combat, you cannot fire overwatch later in the phase as you are locked in combat (presuming the first unit charged sucessfully and you didn't fire overwatch) and you certainly cannot move in any following movement phases due to being locked. the only movement allowed after being locked are pile in moves.


Nut - you’re agreeing with the outcome Rig is arguing in favor of, just disagreeing with his methodology.

One side is arguing the rules for locked in combat ;blanket; are applied either
-Soon as the conditions are met, E.G the initial charger is in base contact.
outcome-This then leads to the fact you can not move any other chargers as the locked in combat rules allow you to make pile in moves, and pile in moves only. I believe I am correct in saying Nos, DR and Rig agree that the RAW for moving the remaining chargers is insufficient to actually allow you to do it when 'Locked in combat' is being referenced.
OR
- The unit is not locked in combat until the fight sub phase after the charges, to avoid the mess the rules create above.
outcome-This would mean you can fire overwatch after being successfully charged, within that same phase.



The other side is arguing the rules for locked in combat are...
-Referenced when performing an action where that rule then comes in to play.
outcome-This frees the chargers to complete their movement, as the rule will not be referenced mid action, but will come into play when attempting to perform prohibited actions (Via locked in combat) in the following sequences / phases / turns.


In my words



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/20 15:59:22


It's my codex and I'll cry If I want to.

Tactical objectives are fantastic 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





 Nem wrote:
One side is arguing the rules for locked in combat ;blanket; are applied either
-Soon as the conditions are met, E.G the initial charger is in base contact.
outcome-This then leads to the fact you can not move any other chargers as the locked in combat rules allow you to make pile in moves, and pile in moves only. I believe I am correct in saying Nos, DR and Rig agree that the RAW for moving the remaining chargers is insufficient to actually allow you to do it when 'Locked in combat' is being referenced.
OR
- The unit is not locked in combat until the fight sub phase after the charges, to avoid the mess the rules create above.
outcome-This would mean you can fire overwatch after being successfully charged, within that same phase.

Nos and DR assert that the second must be true because the first leads to an incomplete charge.
I assert that neither is actually true, and that

The other side is arguing the rules for locked in combat are...
-Referenced when performing an action where that rule then comes in to play.
outcome-This frees the chargers to complete their movement, as the rule will not be referenced mid action, but will come into play when attempting to perform prohibited actions (Via locked in combat) in the following sequences / phases / turns.


This is the actual way the rules work.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

rigeld2 wrote:
But you have to check if you are locked when making a normal move, as "Units that have one or more models in base contact with enemies are locked in combat." (23)

So if you are moving a model you have to check to make sure the unit is not locked in combat.

The bolded is incorrect. You move as a unit. You have zero rules support for making the check during movement. The check was made prior to movement.

Each model in a unit moves. The whole unit does not have to move (in the movement phase as normal)

Each model in the unit has to move during a charge move.

However there is an ongoing condition that states "While a unit is locked in combat, it rnay only make Pile In moves and cannot otherwise move or shoot." (23)

and the unit is locked if it has one or more models in base contact with an enemy.

But you are not going to understand this and have brought up "Allowed to check" as an argument when nothing in the rules says that.

the rules for locked in combat are applied at any time the conditions are met, as the rule is a simple If Then statement without caveat.

Play it how you want, that is not going to change what the rules say.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/20 16:43:45


"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





 DeathReaper wrote:
Each model in a unit moves. The whole unit does not have to move (in the movement phase as normal)

Red herring - I've never said otherwise. Not even sure why you brought it up.

Each model in the unit has to move during a charge move.

However there is an ongoing condition that states "While a unit is locked in combat, it rnay only make Pile In moves and cannot otherwise move or shoot." (23)

So... you do or don't check before the unit moves? Because the rules say you do. It's not even a reminder - it's a requirement to be able to declare a charge (20)

But you are not going to understand this and have brought up "Allowed to check" as an argument when nothing in the rules says that.

Oh, I understand your argument completely. It has no basis in fact, but I do understand it.

the rules for locked in combat are applied at any time the conditions are met, as the rule is a simple If Then statement without caveat.

Play it how you want, that is not going to change what the rules say.

It's a function of how a permissive rule set must work - you are not allowed to use a rule without a reference to that rule.
It's exactly the same reason the Doom of Malantai's Spirit Leech ability does not work as written as there's no method of allocation referenced in the rule.
But you go ahead and ignore that fact as well - it's doing you some awesome favors.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

You check for locked any time that a model in a unit tries to move because models may not move if their unit is locked.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





 DeathReaper wrote:
You check for locked any time that a model in a unit tries to move because models may not move if their unit is locked.

Citation needed - that's not what the rules actually say.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

rigeld2 wrote:
 DeathReaper wrote:
You check for locked any time that a model in a unit tries to move because models may not move if their unit is locked.

Citation needed - that's not what the rules actually say.

Actually it is what the rules say because of the line:

"Units that have one or more models in base contact with enemies are locked in combat." (23)

If you try to move a model and another model in the unit is in base contact with an enemy then the unit is locked and its models may only make pile in moves.

This clearly disproves your position.

Anything else I can answer for you?

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





 DeathReaper wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
 DeathReaper wrote:
You check for locked any time that a model in a unit tries to move because models may not move if their unit is locked.

Citation needed - that's not what the rules actually say.

Actually it is what the rules say because of the line:

"Units that have one or more models in base contact with enemies are locked in combat." (23)

If you try to move a model and another model in the unit is in base contact with an enemy then the unit is locked and its models may only make pile in moves.

This clearly disproves your position.

Anything else I can answer for you?

No, you claimed (and I quoted) that the rules say you check for locked any time a model in a unit tries to move.
Cite that requirement or admit you invented it. The rule you quoted says Units are locked. The restriction is on the unit, not the model.
The unit has already declared and is in the middle of performing an action. The unit may now have a restriction but there's nothing in the restriction preventing the current action from being performed.
You've. Invented. That. and keep insisting it's true, regardless of the fact that there's no actual rule saying so.

You're also applying a rule without referencing it - something that you should not be doing.

As for something else you can answer for me - please answer the questions I've asked repeatedly:

Why are you applying an effect without some rule telling you to?
How does the Doom of Malantai allocate wounds? (relevant question that you've ignored repeatedly)

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

rigeld2 wrote:
How does the Doom of Malantai allocate wounds? (relevant question that you've ignored repeatedly)


RAW? It is neither a shooting attack nor CC attack so you cannot use the rules for those. It is obvious where the attack comes from so you cannot use random allocation. Therefore strict RAW you cannot allocate wounds. Unless there is another method of wound allocation that I missed.

Though I'm not quite sure what this has to do with anything.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/20 19:24:03


Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





 Happyjew wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
How does the Doom of Malantai allocate wounds? (relevant question that you've ignored repeatedly)


RAW? It is neither a shooting attack nor CC attack so you cannot use the rules for those. It is obvious where the attack comes from so you cannot use random allocation. Therefore strict RAW you cannot allocate wounds. Unless there is another method of wound allocation that I missed.

Though I'm not quite sure what this has to do with anything.

Right - and you can't use those allocation methods because there's nothing in the Spirit Leech rules that references them.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

But the rule does reference it.

Any time you try to move a model you have to abide by all of the rules.

Making a charge move whilst one model from your unit is in base contact breaks the rule about only making pile in moves whist locked.

rigeld2 wrote:
How does the Doom of Malantai allocate wounds? (relevant question that you've ignored repeatedly)

The same way a vector strike allocates wounds...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/20 19:55:41


"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

 DeathReaper wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
How does the Doom of Malantai allocate wounds? (relevant question that you've ignored repeatedly)

The same way a vector strike allocates wounds...


Random Allocation?

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





 DeathReaper wrote:
But the rule does reference it.

No, they don't. The Charge Moves on page 21 don't even mention the word "locked".

Any time you try to move a model you have to abide by all of the rules.

Every rule that applies to models. A rule that applies to a unit does not always apply to a model.

Making a charge move whilst one model from your unit is in base contact breaks the rule about only making pile in moves whist locked.

No, it really doesn't. The model is breaking no rules - the unit is finishing a charge move that was legally initiated. Not making a charge move - that would be forbidden.

rigeld2 wrote:
How does the Doom of Malantai allocate wounds? (relevant question that you've ignored repeatedly)

The same way a vector strike allocates wounds...

Citation required.
And you ignored the other question I asked. Thanks bro.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




rigeld2 wrote:
 Happyjew wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
How does the Doom of Malantai allocate wounds? (relevant question that you've ignored repeatedly)


RAW? It is neither a shooting attack nor CC attack so you cannot use the rules for those. It is obvious where the attack comes from so you cannot use random allocation. Therefore strict RAW you cannot allocate wounds. Unless there is another method of wound allocation that I missed.

Though I'm not quite sure what this has to do with anything.

Right - and you can't use those allocation methods because there's nothing in the Spirit Leech rules that references them.

So you can never use random allocation, unless the rules for the attack state so?

Because the rules for RA suggest otherwise

Your argument relies upon your assertion that the STATE "are locked" isnt actually a state. The rules state otherwise.

COncession accepted, your refusal to show a rules basis for your assertion is noted.
   
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Allison Park PA

The rules seem fairly cut and dry to me. The guy who wrote the blog seem to either be thinking WAY to hard about this in order to pull a fast one, or is a complete idiot.

Est Solarus Oth Mithas - My Honor is My Life

 
   
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Silver Spring, MD

 Draconicwraith wrote:
The rules seem fairly cut and dry to me. The guy who wrote the blog seem to either be thinking WAY to hard about this in order to pull a fast one, or is a complete idiot.


Yes, thank you.

And everyone is arguing with rigeld's very strict interpretation of the permissive ruleset while conveniently ignoring my argument (which cuts theirs to shreds):

Even if you are locked as soon as the first charging model is engaged, the rules specifically state that you have to finish that charge by moving every model, and the rules tell you exactly how to do so. There is no argument, that section trumps the definition of locked in this case. You have legally initiated a charge and the rules compel you to finish it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/20 21:28:20


Battlefleet Gothic ships and markers at my store, GrimDarkBits:
 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





nosferatu1001 wrote:
So you can never use random allocation, unless the rules for the attack state so?

Because the rules for RA suggest otherwise

Suggest and as written are two completely different things - I know you know that.

Your argument relies upon your assertion that the STATE "are locked" isnt actually a state. The rules state otherwise.

Citation needed - you've failed to provide one.

COncession accepted, your refusal to show a rules basis for your assertion is noted.

I've shown a rules basis. You're asking me to prove something that is a basic understanding of how rules work. Since that's not written in the BRB you're giving me an impossible task and then telling me I concede when I can't meet it. First of all, I'm not conceding. Second, I'm not sure how I should take that - so I'll propose this:

Prove using the BRB that WH40k is a permissive rule set. If you can do that - and only the BRB, not something like "the only way the rules can work" or "logic" or "you've admitted this in the past" - I'll concede and drop this subject.
Since I know for a fact that task is impossible, I'll accept the fact that you can't do it. Your failure is noted. Have a good day.

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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin




Johnson City, NewYork

Don't you need a specific exception to override a rule? Similar to the assaulting from reserve in an assault vehicle. Does the charge rules give you a specific exception to override being locked? I'd have to say that yet again it's a set of rules that in concept work well but in the end they are still poorly written and therefor do not work as written when compared to understanding of intent.

ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.

You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
Specific Vs General 
   
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Chicago, IL

rigeld2 wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Your argument relies upon your assertion that the STATE "are locked" isnt actually a state. The rules state otherwise.

Citation needed - you've failed to provide one.
We have, Page 23

A unit is locked when it meets the condition. the state of being locked relies on one thing, and once that condition is met they are in a state of Locked.
 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
Yes, thank you.

And everyone is arguing with rigeld's very strict interpretation of the permissive ruleset while conveniently ignoring my argument (which cuts theirs to shreds):

Even if you are locked as soon as the first charging model is engaged, the rules specifically state that you have to finish that charge by moving every model, and the rules tell you exactly how to do so. There is no argument, that section trumps the definition of locked in this case. You have legally initiated a charge and the rules compel you to finish it.


Except for the Locked rules that state that you can only make pile in moves whilst locked.

Is the charge move a pile in move?
Gravmyr wrote:
Don't you need a specific exception to override a rule? Similar to the assaulting from reserve in an assault vehicle. Does the charge rules give you a specific exception to override being locked? I'd have to say that yet again it's a set of rules that in concept work well but in the end they are still poorly written and therefor do not work as written when compared to understanding of intent.

Yes you do.

You need specific permission to override the restriction (Like Sweeping Advance Vs. And They Shall Know No Fear, ATSKNF has specific permission to not be destroyed. Charging has no specific permission to override locked).

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/08/21 08:36:39


"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
 Draconicwraith wrote:
The rules seem fairly cut and dry to me. The guy who wrote the blog seem to either be thinking WAY to hard about this in order to pull a fast one, or is a complete idiot.


Yes, thank you.

And everyone is arguing with rigeld's very strict interpretation of the permissive ruleset while conveniently ignoring my argument (which cuts theirs to shreds):

Even if you are locked as soon as the first charging model is engaged, the rules specifically state that you have to finish that charge by moving every model, and the rules tell you exactly how to do so. There is no argument, that section trumps the definition of locked in this case. You have legally initiated a charge and the rules compel you to finish it.

Show the SPECIFIC permission to override the restriction that you can only make Pile In moves.

You need something like "even though you can normally only make pile in moves", or else it isnt *specific*

Rigeld - page 23, now over to you to prove that this does not apply when the condition is met. You do not need to be told to use Rnadom Allocation in order to use it, as it covers any attack where the source isnt clear. DIsproving your "you need to be told to use a rule ALWAYS in order to be able to use the rule"

Locked IS a state, proven, and your refusal to provide a backup for your assertion, and your false dichotomy, is noted.
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





The word "state" does not exist on page 23.
And nos, you argued literally the opposite in a prior thread iirc.
So what wound allocation method does the Doom use for Spirit Leech?

And there isn't a false dichotomy. Also, part of citing is providing quotes. Page 23 isn't enough. Give actual rules support - the off quoted sentence doesn't say what you are telling me it says, so obviously I'm missing a sentence.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




rigeld2 wrote:
The word "state" does not exist on page 23.
And nos, you argued literally the opposite in a prior thread iirc.
So what wound allocation method does the Doom use for Spirit Leech?

And there isn't a false dichotomy. Also, part of citing is providing quotes. Page 23 isn't enough. Give actual rules support - the off quoted sentence doesn't say what you are telling me it says, so obviously I'm missing a sentence.

Happy broke down what allocation method you use - none, as he doesnt fit any of the available types. However it was always clear what method of allocation a vector striking daemon prince used, as the source was unclear (especially if it flew off), until they reminded you that it used Random Allocation.

It doesnt have to say "state", the word, for it to describe a state. If you ARE locked, you are in the state known as "locked" once you have fulfilled those conditions. The written rule has been given enough times now to not bear repeating now - I will leave you to reread it in this thread - for you to know what it says. You just disagree that it is describing a state the model / unit is in. You have instead made up a requirement that doesnt exist in the rules, OR in the framework of the rules, to defend your position. A litterally unassailable position, because you have contrived it to be so.

Your refusal to provide a single rules quote to back up your assertion is noted, and your conceded argument accepted.
   
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The Hive Mind





nosferatu1001 wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
The word "state" does not exist on page 23.
And nos, you argued literally the opposite in a prior thread iirc.
So what wound allocation method does the Doom use for Spirit Leech?

And there isn't a false dichotomy. Also, part of citing is providing quotes. Page 23 isn't enough. Give actual rules support - the off quoted sentence doesn't say what you are telling me it says, so obviously I'm missing a sentence.

Happy broke down what allocation method you use - none, as he doesnt fit any of the available types. However it was always clear what method of allocation a vector striking daemon prince used, as the source was unclear (especially if it flew off), until they reminded you that it used Random Allocation.

No - there's no permission to use the shooting rules for Vector Strike. Nor for the DoM. You're allowed to use Random Allocation because - wait for it - they FAQ'd it.

It doesnt have to say "state", the word, for it to describe a state. If you ARE locked, you are in the state known as "locked" once you have fulfilled those conditions. The written rule has been given enough times now to not bear repeating now - I will leave you to reread it in this thread - for you to know what it says.

So no additional rules to back up your assertion - just the single sentence?
Right, since that sentence doesn't actually say what you assert you've provided nothing to back up your position. Concession accepted.

You just disagree that it is describing a state the model / unit is in. You have instead made up a requirement that doesnt exist in the rules, OR in the framework of the rules, to defend your position. A litterally unassailable position, because you have contrived it to be so.

Surely there'd be another example of a "state" of being?
No, I haven't contrived anything. For state based effects to exist they'd need to be explained in the rules - or for GW have some other longer method of explanation.
You've refused and been unable to cite anything like that.
I've made up nothing - I've cited (multiple times) that checks are made (not reminders - they don't use any word even remotely considered a reminder) for multiple actions. I would suggest that the text following your quoted sentence is a reminder - it's not in bold and it's not in the relevant sections. As a reminder it cannot actually cause a restriction - that's left to the actual rules.

Your refusal to provide a single rules quote to back up your assertion is noted, and your conceded argument accepted.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/21 13:16:56


My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Apart from the lines in RA which tells you to use it when you need to allocate a wound that doesnt have a clear origin, you mean?

The rest of your rant is ignored, as it added nothing new.

Your argument boils down to: I assert X, and X is unassailable. Therefore I win.

Troll elsewhere
   
 
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