Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Only been playing WH40k for about a month, but I've been playing A LOT of games, and more recently I started playing Nidzilla. I don't like to lose, as I'm sure most people don't, so here is a question I have:

I have never read anywhere in the rulebook that states that you cannot roll each dice one at a time when you are taking wounds. If it came out somewhere in a faq, I would love to know, because I won't stop doing it until I see that it is in fact, a rule.

I know that people usually roll all their wounds all at the same time to make the game go faster, but I have found that I actually keep more of my guys alive by rolling each of his wounds one by one, instead of rolling 6 dice all at once; theres more of a chance of me failing dice rolls and having him die.

Call me a douche, but everyone is capable of doing it if its not a rule, but that's how I play, but I've gotten a few complaints about it when people cant drop my DoM with 79 Lasgun shots (not lascannon), and 2 twin linked lascannon shots, because I roll my Invuln's on 3+ because of warp field.

so the question, is there any kind of rule that specifically says that I cannot do that? If so, I'd like a page number or a link
thanks!

Is there a rule? Not that I know of.
However, if you insist on playing that way, you'll more than likely run out of opponents. I'd rather get in a couple of quick games then play one 3 hour long 500 pt game.

Umm... the odds are exactly the same. Any perceived benefit by rolling the dice one at a time is just that, perception. Fast rolling is there for a reason, its fast. The only reason to roll individually is when models differ for the unit, ICs, mixed armor saves, etc.

Zagman wrote:
Umm... the odds are exactly the same. Any perceived benefit by rolling the dice one at a time is just that, perception. Fast rolling is there for a reason, its fast. The only reason to roll individually is when models differ for the unit, ICs, mixed armor saves, etc.

I roll 4+'s usually...i hardly ever lose my guys, but when I roll all my wounds at once, my guys die super fast...

and out of 79 lasgun shots, only like 13 actually wounded

Well, there are theories such as dice setting and controlled shooting that show with one die and practice you can impact the outcome of the rolls.

When you add in lots of dice in your hand to bump into one another it pretty much kills the theory. ( or having to hit the wall in craps, even then some people feel they can still use dice setting to beat the house)




Automatically Appended Next Post:
There is also weighted dice, or unbalanced dice... etc etc..


On to the subject, there are no rules that say you can't but I could tell you now that I wouldn't play you after the first time. I look to finish 2000pt games in under 2.5 hours... one off rolling with that kind of shooting and what not going on would make me want to hang myself.

If you perceive a difference in the outcome of the roll based on the number of dice you are rolling, you are attempting to cheat.

There is no difference in randomization. You are attempting to circumvent randomness. This is what cheating is all about.

Roll your wounds together. If nothing else it is a courtesy to your opponent to not waste his time. It is not a fact that your models survive more often due to rolling separately, it is perception.

And the OP is probably confusing rolling wounds and saves separately. In the BRB, it is stated that if there are different saves in a unit, they may need to be rolled separately.

I'm just talking about when someone is shooting me, hits resolve, he rolls his wounds, now I resolve my wounds, but like i said, I roll them all individually, its usually on average about 5-10 depending on whats shooting at me. and i roll them pretty quick.

Yes, and if you think the outcome of rolling is different based on the number of dice you are rolling, you are attempting to cheat.

Either way, you are attributing the success of a bunch of individual random events to the perception that they affect each other in some way. 100 die rolls would have the same results rolled one at a time or one big roll. It is a fallacy of perception.

And you don't resolve wounds against your own models, those are your saves.

Nidzilla666 wrote:
Only been playing WH40k for about a month, but I've been playing A LOT of games, and more recently I started playing Nidzilla. I don't like to lose, as I'm sure most people don't, so here is a question I have:

I have never read anywhere in the rulebook that states that you cannot roll each dice one at a time when you are taking wounds. If it came out somewhere in a faq, I would love to know, because I won't stop doing it until I see that it is in fact, a rule.

I know that people usually roll all their wounds all at the same time to make the game go faster, but I have found that I actually keep more of my guys alive by rolling each of his wounds one by one, instead of rolling 6 dice all at once; theres more of a chance of me failing dice rolls and having him die.

1) you mean saving throws

2) rolling 18 3+ saving throws, on average will yield three 1's and three 2's on fair dice. Rolling them all at once or one at a time makes no statistical difference at all.

Nidzilla666 wrote:

Call me a douche, but everyone is capable of doing it if its not a rule, but that's how I play, but I've gotten a few complaints about it when people cant drop my DoM with 79 Lasgun shots (not lascannon), and 2 twin linked lascannon shots, because I roll my Invuln's on 3+ because of warp field.

so the question, is there any kind of rule that specifically says that I cannot do that? If so, I'd like a page number or a link
thanks!

There is a rule, it is called Fast Dice and it is on Page 16, give it a read.

Nidzilla666 wrote:
but I have found that I actually keep more of my guys alive by rolling each of his wounds one by one, instead of rolling 6 dice all at once; theres more of a chance of me failing dice rolls and having him die.

The actual probability is literally the same.
If it's actually ending up significantly different then it's because (consciously or not) you're "cheating" the roll.

The condition people are thinking of is called "natural rolling" every time I see someone look down, turn the single die in their hand how they want it and roll it "just so" (looks identical each roll) is doing that.

If you have to look at the number prior to rolling, it is a good indicator of cheating

Some people genuinely think it is just their "lucky" way to roll but it vastly improves your odds of getting the number you want.

It works even better using the "locked dice" craps method for two of them.

All these things are methods to reduce the "random" event of a dice roll to progressive limiting variation:
-Always have a target number up in your hand (like a 6)
-Drop it from known distance (distance + gravity as constants).
-have it roll off your fingers or palm a set distance (controls number of turns and the axis it spins now reduced variation to 4 sides rather than 6).
-Always use the same size and brand of dice (behaves the same as it spins).
-Always use the same surface to drop the dice on (my special dice box, known bounce, even better if it reduces bounce).

Does any of the above sound like a reasonable means to control your luck?

I got a dice tower for that kind of thing, if you need to roll one at a time for no good reason I am 90% certain you are trying to cheat in some way (or waste my time).

OP nothing in the rules says you must roll all the dice but speed rolling makes the game much faster, you share the dice so loaded dice is less a factor and once past two dice it is incredibly hard to cheat (unless again, you look down and roll them around in your hand). If I were playing you rolling one at a time, I would suggest the dice tower or roll more dice. If an argument, time to pack up.

Added note: suspect loaded dice? Stick in clear cup with water and if it flips while dropping to the bottom: they are loaded.

Fortunately, I use the instructions found here. That way I can never be called a cheater when it comes to rolling.

@Happyjew: I'd never seen that before. Amazing, thank you for the share.

Make sure you pay attention to the date it was posted

I knew somebody that would always roll one die at a time. This was when we were playing DnD. he would do it for damage for his fireball, I noticed that if one of the die was a one or two he would try to hit with his next die to knock it to a higher number. We caught on this fairly quickly.

I understand that there are a lot of dice superstitions out there. Making sure nobody touches them, letting them sit with sixes up over night, etc. These things are pretty common and don't really have much of an in-game effect. But if I was playing you I would get a little annoyed, and so would my wife. I don't have all day to play and would like to take care of the game in a reasonable amount of time. If you roll one save at a time from all 40 of my ork boy attacks, I would insist that you roll them all at once or I would have to leave the game early.

So you are either cheating as was mentioned before, or your superstitions are getting in the way of the game and is causing you to be rude to your opponent.
I could say I always play better if I poop on the floor next to the table just before deployment but it has no in-game effect and is just an inconvenience to the other player.

I played an ork player once that dragged out a game so bad we only got 3 turns in 2 and a half hours. He wrecked my head with his delaying, slow moving and single dice rolling all day.

I find it deoends on the situation how I roll saves. And my opponet. If they are in a hurry I dont waist there time just like if I was id expect them not to waist mine but when it a friendly game and surcumstances where that I have a charecter a sgt and squad I might just take one dice at a time.. and ive found my odds always change its all in what the dice gods decide that day.

I could say I always play better if I poop on the floor next to the table just before deployment

Me too!! I find the direction I wipe in after makes a big difference wipe up for normal rolls down for leadership. I have to eat A LOT of roughage when playing a horde army

But more seriously this is either just time wasting due to perception or a genuine attempt to cheat. The way perception works is if I roll 20 dice and pass all 20 3+ rolls that's 1 lucky roll. I do the same but 1 at a time every pass after the third would be considered lucky and thus it seems like I rolled 16 lucky rolls. The converse I take 10 rolls and fail 5 or 6 and it is unlucky. I roll one at a time fail the first the guy dies and we don't roll anymore so I can only have a number of unlucky rolls equal to the wounds in the unit where as I can have any numberof lucky rolls. This is how the perception works...

 FlingitNow wrote:

I could say I always play better if I poop on the floor next to the table just before deployment

Me too!! I find the direction I wipe in after makes a big difference wipe up for normal rolls down for leadership. I have to eat A LOT of roughage when playing a horde army

I find it works better if I do it in the middle of my opponents deployment zone...that might be why I've been kicked out of so many places...

 Happyjew wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

I could say I always play better if I poop on the floor next to the table just before deployment

Me too!! I find the direction I wipe in after makes a big difference wipe up for normal rolls down for leadership. I have to eat A LOT of roughage when playing a horde army

I find it works better if I do it in the middle of my opponents deployment zone...that might be why I've been kicked out of so many places...

Makes for great mysterious terrain

 Icculus wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

I could say I always play better if I poop on the floor next to the table just before deployment

Me too!! I find the direction I wipe in after makes a big difference wipe up for normal rolls down for leadership. I have to eat A LOT of roughage when playing a horde army

I find it works better if I do it in the middle of my opponents deployment zone...that might be why I've been kicked out of so many places...

Makes for great mysterious terrain

"Look there! What's that mysterious brown mound?"

"Why, it's a Skyfire Nexus of course you dunce!"

Iranna.

If your rolling dice 1 at a time unnecessarily, your making a game that already takes hours to play even longer. If you insisted on that kind of slow play with me, I would play someone else.

Well technically most saves should be done one at a time as almost every unit out there has a character in it and thus uses the mixed saves method. annoying FAQ answers.

So I don't think we should leap to the "they must be cheating" conclusion.

That said I will bend the rules a bit and take all my saves in one roll, then if the wounds make it to the character I'll then make the LOS rolls. Statistically it works out the same, but if anyone were to complain about it I would have to go to the proper way of rolling the saves for my 29 boys and a nob one save at a time. As that is the correct and and proper way to do it.

sirlynchmob wrote:
Well technically most saves should be done one at a time as almost every unit out there has a character in it and thus uses the mixed saves method. annoying FAQ answers.

So I don't think we should leap to the "they must be cheating" conclusion.

That said I will bend the rules a bit and take all my saves in one roll, then if the wounds make it to the character I'll then make the LOS rolls. Statistically it works out the same, but if anyone were to complain about it I would have to go to the proper way of rolling the saves for my 29 boys and a nob one save at a time. As that is the correct and and proper way to do it.

Until you read the part about fast dice, and see the example even shows that you can roll 6 saves before you get to the character.

In the case of the OP, a MC can take all of its saves at once, as per fast rolling. This is because a lone MC, or unit of Carnifex, all have the same save.

 DeathReaper wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
Well technically most saves should be done one at a time as almost every unit out there has a character in it and thus uses the mixed saves method. annoying FAQ answers.

So I don't think we should leap to the "they must be cheating" conclusion.

That said I will bend the rules a bit and take all my saves in one roll, then if the wounds make it to the character I'll then make the LOS rolls. Statistically it works out the same, but if anyone were to complain about it I would have to go to the proper way of rolling the saves for my 29 boys and a nob one save at a time. As that is the correct and and proper way to do it.

Until you read the part about fast dice, and see the example even shows that you can roll 6 saves before you get to the character.

In the case of the OP, a MC can take all of its saves at once, as per fast rolling. This is because a lone MC, or unit of Carnifex, all have the same save.

the op can also take all his saves at once due to the same save method as well.

Yes, fast rolling is an option, for more than one model units, but it is not one you are required to use.

The trouble with fast rolling is that it's an OPTION. It's not mandatory. But, of course, rolling the dice one at a time when there's just no need breaks the most important rule of all - to have fun...

 Super Ready wrote:
The trouble with fast rolling is that it's an OPTION. It's not mandatory.

That's interesting, also a Citation is needed.

It does not say it is optional, and it is a permissive ruleset...

It does say its option. "You can..."