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 volatileart wrote:
This seems like a mixed bag of likely and wishlisty to me.
Hormagaunts:
Leap makes sense for the gaunts, though I'm on the fence on how the warrior sergeant idea is. Good and bad, but an interesting change I suppose. The setup makes them seem like a less intimidating Tervigon that can use the sqd as a meat shield. They Just Keep Coming seems almost too good to be true. By the by, are adrenal glands staying the same, or did I just miss that part?

Warriors:
They needed the T5 increase and I'm fine paying a few points extra for it. Yay not being one shotted by lascannons/plasma guns/PF!
Leap seems a bit out of sorts on the warriors though, but that's just IMHO.
Will they still have anything like Aplha Warrior if grouped with a Prime?

Carnifex:
I like all the potential stuff in this and think that the natural disaster ability is cool and themeatic to the creatures. Still, Upgrades for a 2+ AS seem unlikely to me.

Leap for warrior makes sense if they want warriors to be able to gear as CC warriors, assuming it comes at a cost. Judging from the Synapse rule for warriors requiring 3 of them to get Synapse to 12", I suspect we'll see a squad upgrade Warrior existing (as I posited before) purely to lend their LD stat to a gaunt brood. It makes 3 man/minimum warrior squads a risky proposition though, since lose a model and suddenly they no longer grant Synapse. (by the by, at S7 most plasma shouldn't be IDing your T4 warriors anyway. [unless you mean DA with their -1T nonsense...])

 streamdragon wrote:

 volatileart wrote:
This seems like a mixed bag of likely and wishlisty to me.
Hormagaunts:
Leap makes sense for the gaunts, though I'm on the fence on how the warrior sergeant idea is. Good and bad, but an interesting change I suppose. The setup makes them seem like a less intimidating Tervigon that can use the sqd as a meat shield. They Just Keep Coming seems almost too good to be true. By the by, are adrenal glands staying the same, or did I just miss that part?

Warriors:
They needed the T5 increase and I'm fine paying a few points extra for it. Yay not being one shotted by lascannons/plasma guns/PF!
Leap seems a bit out of sorts on the warriors though, but that's just IMHO.
Will they still have anything like Aplha Warrior if grouped with a Prime?

Carnifex:
I like all the potential stuff in this and think that the natural disaster ability is cool and themeatic to the creatures. Still, Upgrades for a 2+ AS seem unlikely to me.

Leap for warrior makes sense if they want warriors to be able to gear as CC warriors, assuming it comes at a cost. Judging from the Synapse rule for warriors requiring 3 of them to get Synapse to 12", I suspect we'll see a squad upgrade Warrior existing (as I posited before) purely to lend their LD stat to a gaunt brood. It makes 3 man/minimum warrior squads a risky proposition though, since lose a model and suddenly they no longer grant Synapse. (by the by, at S7 most plasma shouldn't be IDing your T4 warriors anyway. [unless you mean DA with their -1T nonsense...])

Yeah, three consistent DA players here and that's a favored tactic against my bugs. Not a huge deal, but something that's been a thorn in my side in particular.
The warriors with Leap makes a bit more sense now that you put it in that perspective, though I'm still washy on how I feel about Warriors being sergeants aand the synapse stuff.
Did they plan on changing adrenal glads away from furious charge?

Yeah defiantly not a fan of having Warriors as sergeants for gaunts. But then again I build my army to be swarm. Large amounts of low LD models with some back line synapse to keep them under control. Obviously not a competitive player. I could also just not take the sergeants cause I be there are people who are in love with the idea.

I run NidZilla.... I don't like the idea of Models with Toughness lower than 6

This all looks FANTASTIC. Can't wait.

Looks like Tervigons will still be good, do we reckon? I'm hesitant to buy some for a two-month use followed by a nerf and a shelving...

Bloodhorror wrote:
I run NidZilla.... I don't like the idea of Models with Toughness lower than 6

You will hate DE then. Unless you run a ton of gargoyles and abuse cover/fnp saves.

AP2 on a tyranid ranged weapon? Not gonna happen. Even the Bio titans in Apoc. only get AP3.

Backlash wrote:
AP2 on a tyranid ranged weapon? Not gonna happen. Even the Bio titans in Apoc. only get AP3.

Bio plasma is currently s7 ap2 blast.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Backlash wrote:
AP2 on a tyranid ranged weapon? Not gonna happen. Even the Bio titans in Apoc. only get AP3.

Bio plasma is currently s7 ap2 blast.

And only has a 12" range.

The Shadow wrote:This all looks FANTASTIC. Can't wait.

Looks like Tervigons will still be good, do we reckon? I'm hesitant to buy some for a two-month use followed by a nerf and a shelving...

Whatever happens, it won't be a "nerf." We have to compare the November edition of the Tervigon to other 6th edition books. We have to look at what it does in conjunction with the 6th edition Tyranids army. Comparing across editions is just fodder for whining, not critical analysis.

I think the Tervigon will probably remain largely unchanged, but also won't be permitted to gain access to as many psychic powers. It will probably have a fixed, Primaris type power. Maybe I'll be wrong.

Even if the Tervigon isn't quite the auto-include anymore, that will likely mean the Tyranids cashed in throughout the remainder of the codex. More viable options is better than knowing which unit to ALWAYS take if you have any hopes of winning. I want list construction to be difficult; an overall part of the strategy, if you will. I don't like playing games so big where I can just stuff in whatever I want. Okay, Apocalypse is fun once in a while, but I absolutely love tough decisions in list design. I want to struggle when choosing between a giant blob of Hormagaunts, or a Tervigon + Termagants. I want to decide if scattered Warriors are my Synapse node of choice, or if I want a network of Tervigons. Do I want psychic offense or defense? Do I want to be anti-infantry or anti-armor? Do I want null deployment and timing attacks; or a synergistic mass? Tyranids are sorely lacking in choice and variety right now, so more options at the (sort of) expense of the Tervigon is fine with me.

The upcoming codex HAS to be better than the one we have. No need to worry.

Bugs have never and probably will never have a real powerbase of ranged AP. We have 3 weapons in our codex that have AP lower than 3. Two of those abilities are zoey abilities and the other is plasma with a range of suck. GW won't give us a way to spam anything lower than AP 4 let alone AP2. What do you think we are? Space marines?

Backlash wrote:
Bugs have never and probably will never have a real powerbase of ranged AP. We have 3 weapons in our codex that have AP lower than 3. Two of those abilities are zoey abilities and the other is plasma with a range of suck. GW won't give us a way to spam anything lower than AP 4 let alone AP2. What do you think we are? Space marines?

But other armies won't have the ability to field the mass of MC's Tyranids can, or swarm like they can, or present a mess of target saturation like they can...

Not every army should have access to the same weaponry types. That would actually be less realistic, and really, REALLY boring.

Not every army should be the same. That's why we won't have AP spam and why I believe this latest batch of rumors arnt true. Besides who needs ap when I can just throw 90 shots into you per squad. Devil gaunts make me smile.

I really hope that rule about Harpies dragging fliers with them is true. Imagine how hilarious it would be to drag a Heldrake so its rear is facing your army, then glance it to death with devilgaunts...

Backlash wrote:
Not every army should be the same. That's why we won't have AP spam and why I believe this latest batch of rumors arnt true. Besides who needs ap when I can just throw 90 shots into you per squad. Devil gaunts make me smile.

Oh, see. I thought you were complaining that they don't have access to a plethora of low AP stuff. GW doesn't favor Space Marines, from a rules standpoint, as some think. In fact, they are rarely the most competitive army at a given time. They get the fluff and publication love, but that's because we customers are stupid and always buy them.

 brassangel wrote:

[...] I want list construction to be difficult; an overall part of the strategy, if you will. I don't like playing games so big where I can just stuff in whatever I want. [...]

You cannot do that it would scare the kids.

 Symbio Joe wrote:

 brassangel wrote:

[...] I want list construction to be difficult; an overall part of the strategy, if you will. I don't like playing games so big where I can just stuff in whatever I want. [...]

You cannot do that it would scare the kids.

On a more serious note: Most of the 6th edition books have given us this though. Multiple builds, which are all competitively viable; units that are specialized and promote taking the right tool for the right job; less of the 5-man, we can do everything units; super powerful, but points-crunching units that require a compromise to fit in...

The big silly toys are what draws the kids in. List-building that requires thought helps us old guys stick around.

Ok so I know that these rumors should be take with a great deal of salt but they sound exciting. The only thing that I am worried about is that the way I read the rumors is that warriors will be like a sgt unit dose that mean I won't be able to run units of just warriors if not that would be disappointing. I like running big blobs of warriors that's kind if the theme of my custom hive fleet, that and I would have to start buying some gaunts I don't have very many :(

 BlackRaven1987!! wrote:
The only thing that I am worried about is that the way I read the rumors is that warriors will be like a sgt unit dose that mean I won't be able to run units of just warriors[? I]f not that would be disappointing. I like running big blobs of warriors that's kind if the theme of my custom hive fleet, that and I would have to start buying some gaunts I don't have very many :(

1) Who knows. The codex isn't out yet and no one has released terrable phone pictures of pages. I would highly doubt it, though. They will prbable function like Space Wolves, where you buy the unit an dhave the option to dole them out.

2) Always buy more gaunts.

 BlackRaven1987!! wrote:
Ok so I know that these rumors should be take with a great deal of salt but they sound exciting. The only thing that I am worried about is that the way I read the rumors is that warriors will be like a sgt unit dose that mean I won't be able to run units of just warriors if not that would be disappointing. I like running big blobs of warriors that's kind if the theme of my custom hive fleet, that and I would have to start buying some gaunts I don't have very many :(

You should have always had gaunts anyway, seeing as how they've been a staple of Tyranids for...ever.

I doubt you suddenly won't be able to run a unit of Warriors. There could even be a Supplement that plays around with different ways to play them too.

People need to keep the whole Supplement thing in mind.

Supplements - now there's a thought. We might finally see Genestealer cult return (presuming it's not in the main dex).

 Clang wrote:
Supplements - now there's a thought. We might finally see Genestealer cult return (presuming it's not in the main dex).

And if they do, no doubt they can ally with Nids as Battle Brothers!

 Clang wrote:
Supplements - now there's a thought. We might finally see Genestealer cult return (presuming it's not in the main dex).

So, tell me, would Genestealer Cults be one page of new artifacts and a warlord trait table for Tyranids or one page of new artifacts and a warlord table for Imperial Guard?

Probably IG with a short list of permitted ally Nid units.

rigeld2 wrote:
Probably IG with a short list of permitted ally Nid units.

Why short list?

After a planet has gotten a sufficiently large enough population infected with the Genestealer genes and the invasion begins, the genestealers fight in all phases of the invasion. They're simply the first to fight, first to fall.

stealers, first to fight, first to fall. kind of like it is now?

 gigasnail wrote:
stealers, first to fight, first to fall. kind of like it is now?

Yea, which would be fine if they had appropriate points values to their current "distraction" battlefield role. Obviously I hope they get useful rules and abilities in the new book (Surprise! and "ravenous advance" would be nice.)

Yes, 'stealers need at LEAST a 2 points discount. Currently they cost the same as the new tactical marines, which is ridiculous...

Daemonettes cost 9 points, have a 5++, rend, and get extra distance on runs. Genestealers have S4 and T4 on them, and the ability to take upgrades. Daemonettes cost less points than genestealers, are faster, and basically just as killy. They also get to deep strike, while stealers get infiltrate. Both can be taken in units of 20 models. Daemonettes don't need cover, since they get a 5++, which will only be beaten by a 4+ from ruins. Genestealers die if you look at them funny and are not currently in cover.

I think 8 points would be fair for a naked stealer, considering that it loses its save vs everything but ap-. Either that, or stealers need a overhaul in the stat line. They also need some way to get to combat somewhat safely. They don't need to be invincible, but there are few ways to protect them as they are now.

Loved my stealers in 5th, they were my most played troop choice. I haven't put any other than Ymgarls on the board in 6th because basically every rule change in 6th was a swift kick in the nuts for them. The fact that I'm seeing almost no rumors for them is kinda bugging me.

Killme304 wrote:
Daemonettes cost 9 points, have a 5++, rend, and get extra distance on runs. Genestealers have S4 and T4 on them, and the ability to take upgrades. Daemonettes cost less points than genestealers, are faster, and basically just as killy. They also get to deep strike, while stealers get infiltrate. Both can be taken in units of 20 models.

I think 8 points would be fair for a naked stealer, considering that it loses its save vs everything but ap-. Either that, or stealers need a overhaul in the stat line.

I'd be fine with 10 pts, to account for the S4 and T4, and WS6