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Killme304 wrote:
Daemonettes cost 9 points, have a 5++, rend, and get extra distance on runs. Genestealers have S4 and T4 on them, and the ability to take upgrades. Daemonettes cost less points than genestealers, are faster, and basically just as killy. They also get to deep strike, while stealers get infiltrate. Both can be taken in units of 20 models. Daemonettes don't need cover, since they get a 5++, which will only be beaten by a 4+ from ruins. Genestealers die if you look at them funny and are not currently in cover.

I think 8 points would be fair for a naked stealer, considering that it loses its save vs everything but ap-. Either that, or stealers need a overhaul in the stat line. They also need some way to get to combat somewhat safely. They don't need to be invincible, but there are few ways to protect them as they are now.

Loved my stealers in 5th, they were my most played troop choice. I haven't put any other than Ymgarls on the board in 6th because basically every rule change in 6th was a swift kick in the nuts for them. The fact that I'm seeing almost no rumors for them is kinda bugging me.

Stealers get the all mighty Broodlord...Daemonettes get a crappy Alluress.

I currently treat my stealers as ablative wounds to the Brrodlord powerhouse

 ductvader wrote:

Killme304 wrote:
Daemonettes cost 9 points, have a 5++, rend, and get extra distance on runs. Genestealers have S4 and T4 on them, and the ability to take upgrades. Daemonettes cost less points than genestealers, are faster, and basically just as killy. They also get to deep strike, while stealers get infiltrate. Both can be taken in units of 20 models. Daemonettes don't need cover, since they get a 5++, which will only be beaten by a 4+ from ruins. Genestealers die if you look at them funny and are not currently in cover.

I think 8 points would be fair for a naked stealer, considering that it loses its save vs everything but ap-. Either that, or stealers need a overhaul in the stat line. They also need some way to get to combat somewhat safely. They don't need to be invincible, but there are few ways to protect them as they are now.

Loved my stealers in 5th, they were my most played troop choice. I haven't put any other than Ymgarls on the board in 6th because basically every rule change in 6th was a swift kick in the nuts for them. The fact that I'm seeing almost no rumors for them is kinda bugging me.

Stealers get the all mighty Broodlord...Daemonettes get a crappy Alluress.

I currently treat my stealers as ablative wounds to the Brrodlord powerhouse

Comparing units across codices is always a futile effort, because neither are backed by the same things. Granted, Genestealers are way more expensive, and surrounded by worse support.

Hydra over at Warpshadow wrote:A Lictor of mine told me, that the skymother will bring us new goodness at the start of the next year.

Magos Kelly, asked about this, just smirked (as you can see on the frontpage) and reminded me about the trouble he got into the last time something passed his lips.

You should have seen the glitter and the endless hunger in his eyes...

So his sources say: No Tyranids in November. Still not convinced.

 Kroothawk wrote:

Hydra over at Warpshadow wrote:A Lictor of mine told me, that the skymother will bring us new goodness at the start of the next year.

Magos Kelly, asked about this, just smirked (as you can see on the frontpage) and reminded me about the trouble he got into the last time something passed his lips.

You should have seen the glitter and the endless hunger in his eyes...

So his sources say: No Tyranids in November. Still not convinced.

First off, why would a Lictor tell anyone anything? Lictors talking, the very concept is laughable. If they wanted to do some kind of fluffy message as to when Nids would come out then something along the lines of 'As of yet, no vanguard elements have been spotted but there have been disturbing reports from far away systems.'

Secondly, Kelly didn't confirm or deny but he did show that he knows the answer. A smirk typically means 'wrong' so, if anything, Nids are before 2014 or after January 2014.

Daemonettes cost 9 points, have a 5++, rend, and get extra distance on runs.

Do they get move through cover and a psychic uber sgt? Do they not also have the instability (or is that just fantasy?)

puree wrote:

Daemonettes cost 9 points, have a 5++, rend, and get extra distance on runs.

Do they get move through cover and a psychic uber sgt? Do they not also have the instability (or is that just fantasy?)

The broodlord, while great in challenges, offers little (almost none) protection from shooting attacks. Also only 3/7 biomancy powers are useful for him thanks to BS0.

So even with broodlords, genestealers overall still deserve a points decrease. In that same vein of comparison look at a 50 pt canoptek spyder (necrons) vs the 160 point carnifexes. It makes me weep.

Personally, I'm still hoping for them to give Stealers and Lictors AP3 close combat attacks. They should be as deadly to a Marine in assault as a Narine is to them at range.

I found this image on deviant art, from an artist who does a lot of sculpts for Avatars of War, Reaper and yes, GW.
It is IP protected so i thought it was a fair bet that we might be looking at the new Red Terror.



Source:

http://backsackandjack.deviantart.com/gallery/

It looks pretty sweet. I HOPE it's the new Red Terror. The other one is getting a little dated with the play-doh talons.

That was a personal project like his slaaneshi sisters of battle.

Functionally, the Mawloc is the new Red terror.
The old one couldn't swallow a snotling whole.

Oh well, thought i might have stumbled onto something. Would have been a cool model.

What are you guys talking about, I loooove the old Red Terror model! I agree it might be a bit small with how big the bugs have gotten for nids lately, but it was always my favorite sculpt for tyranids

Lovely model, it just really, really doesn't fit it's (at least 3rd ed) all-devouring fluff.

The funny thing about the Red Terror is the artwork for it made it look bigger than the current Mawloc.

Bit, Kroot has the right of it. The Red Terror just became the Mawloc. The fluff description for it was even inconsistent - some claims were that it was the size of a Ravener, others a Trygon. So it's logical to assume that the 3rd edition Red Terror was more of a test bed for making a Mawloc type unit. Now the Hive Mind is happy with it, it's in general use as the Mawloc. The same could be said for Old One Eye - in 3rd edition, it was the only Carnifex that could take Regeneration. In 4th, all Carnifexes could take it. They tested it on Old One Eye, tweaked it, and put it in general production.

So in the next codex all Zoeys can get Spirit Leech? :-)
Muahahahahahahahahaha

The Red Terror changing size in different engagements implies it was being changed until they found the ideal creature. It's also worth mentioning there's still Raveners and Trygons, which seemed to be the test creatures for the Mawloc through the Red Terror.

While the Doom of Malan'tai is a mutation of the Zoanthrope, it's not a replacement, just like the Mawloc wasn't a replacement for the Trygon or Ravener.

 -Loki- wrote:
The Red Terror changing size in different engagements implies it was being changed until they found the ideal creature.

Or that there were multiple 'Red Terrors', which is also entirely possible, or that aforementioned strain of Tyranid was a stunted version of the as-of-yet unseen Mawloc... many possibilities!

The point is there, though. The Red Terror doesn't offer anything unique. At least the Parasite (although nobody uses it) is unique, if not entirely in a good way. If they were to reintroduce the Red Terror, it would have to be significant - and 'eating peeps whole' isn't unique anymore. Besides, it's not like it can't exist in the fluff, not every character has to be represented by a set of special rules. If you really wanted a Red Terror, just convert up a Mawloc! That said, one really has to wonder why Leviathan hasn't put Deathleaper into mass-production, since it was definitely not a mutation or anything (it's described as being deliberately created as the ultimate assassin). It's not like it could cost that much more biomass than a regular Lictor!

EDIT: I want Lictors to be good. I like Lictors. :'c

To make lictors feel like the fluff, they would probably end up broken, or extremely expensive points wise.

That said, I like lictors too. I wish deathleaper was more awesome on the table, I'd love to field the guy in more than just lulzy lists.

Lictors are assassins - the Deathleaper was made to be a terror weapon. For example, the fluff about it killing everything except the opposing commander over and over to demoralise him.

Lictors don't have to be all made into Deathleapers rules-wise to be good. They just need to be fixed, as the groundwork is there. GW just keeps fething up when they try to fix them.

rigeld2 wrote:
So in the next codex all Zoeys can get Spirit Leech? :-)
Muahahahahahahahahaha

Spirit Leech is likely going to become something like a Nova version of Life Leech. Doubt it will remain the stupidly broken non-psychic ability it is now.

I know - it was a joke more than anything else.

 -Loki- wrote:
Lictors are assassins - the Deathleaper was made to be a terror weapon. For example, the fluff about it killing everything except the opposing commander over and over to demoralise him.

Lictors don't have to be all made into Deathleapers rules-wise to be good. They just need to be fixed, as the groundwork is there. GW just keeps fething up when they try to fix them.

I didn't mean from a rules perspective. Deathleaper is clearly superior to other Lictors, and there is no fluff explanation as to why it's not the standard model. I'd understand if there was something like "Deathleaper is weaker, but stealthier" (which would work; it's a fear weapon, and Lictors are massive! Deathy could have a lighter, faster build, designed for squeezing through ducts and stuff, without the same 'hardiness' as a true Lictor), but there isn't! In every area that Deathleaper isn't better than the Lictor, it is exactly the same. Then it has its own unique stuff going on. The only thing Lictors have over Deathleaper is being about a third of the cost and that they can be taken in Broods, but that doesn't help (also, if they just turned all Lictors into Deathleaper it would suck because they'd be 140pts each).

The biggest issue is that whole "I will show up unexpectedly and surprise everyone! And then stand there uselessly and get shot to death immediately" special rule that Lictors seem to have. It's like they "lie in wait for days", as fluff says, and then, when the time is right, they stand up, yell "Boo!" at an enemy unit, and then stare awkwardly at them until the enemy have a chance to shoot them. This is an 'ambush'. Fearsome.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

The biggest issue is that whole "I will show up unexpectedly and surprise everyone! And then stand there uselessly and get shot to death immediately" special rule that Lictors seem to have. It's like they "lie in wait for days", as fluff says, and then, when the time is right, they stand up, yell "Boo!" at an enemy unit, and then stare awkwardly at them until the enemy have a chance to shoot them. This is an 'ambush'. Fearsome.

Yup, needs to be "I will show up unexpectedly and surprise everyone and rip someone's head off, and I'll keep ripping heads off until either you shoot me to bits or there are no more heads to rip off" - sort of a close-combat glass cannon, if that makes sense. The Lictor has always been really cool fluffwise, and rules to match that fluff should be possible, without being broken or stupidly expensive.

You mean make the Lictor back into what it was in Second Edition?

Didn't play in 2nd, but if that is when it could assault the turn it showed up, then yes.

With how GW has been removing ways to assault from off the board though, it won't happen without losing all effectiveness though.

Honestly in the trend of 6th no assaulting from reserves is a pretty guaranteed thing. However, the lictors could still be fluffy and effective if the "surprise!" Rumor is true. Especially if it causes all units within 12" to snap fire regardless of target - boom, the lictor becomes a disruption unit.

For his assault to be effective however the lictor really needs a 4++ dodge save in close combat, like wyches.

It had a 5+ Dodge save in 2nd, IIRC.

Itwas also pretty handy in assault- more than capable of tear8ng Marines to pieces.

rigeld2 wrote:
So in the next codex all Zoeys can get Spirit Leech? :-)
Muahahahahahahahahaha

"cough" Telepathy Primarys "cough"

 Tyran wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
So in the next codex all Zoeys can get Spirit Leech? :-)
Muahahahahahahahahaha

"cough" Telepathy Primarys "cough"

*cough* isn't a Nova and requires a to-hit roll *cough*