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 Tyran wrote:
He is alright with human armies, just keep him a kilometer away from xenos.

And Tomb Kings.

 kirsanth wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
He is alright with human armies, just keep him a kilometer away from xenos.

And Tomb Kings.

He was also relatively new to it at the time. I think his more contemporary works suggest he'd do fine with any codex he writes from here on out. Plus, there's a more over-arching collaborative process now.

Kelly has been hit or miss with 6th so far. CSM was a pretty poor book overall, while Eldar was great. Daemons were in the middle being "ok"

Jeremy Vetock has had a pretty good track record so far, with Tau being on the stronger side.

We haven't seen anything from Ward yet, I hope he does write it though.

No Cruddace though. It's pretty clear he doesn't do well unless it's an army he likes.

 Sasori wrote:
Kelly has been hit or miss with 6th so far. CSM was a pretty poor book overall, while Eldar was great. Daemons were in the middle being "ok"

Jeremy Vetock has had a pretty good track record so far, with Tau being on the stronger side.

We haven't seen anything from Ward yet, I hope he does write it though.

No Cruddace though. It's pretty clear he doesn't do well unless it's an army he likes.

Daemons were made with the word random in mind, if they roll well they destroy anything, if they roll bad they almost kill themselves. Anyway they are hilarious.
Plus they are the fastest cc army in this moment, and quite good at breaking gun-lines (at the end of turn 2 they at least will be in their opponents face, if not already in CC).

Tiny bit of new stuff I've been told from my source...

Tyrants will be able to choose two from a list of biomorphs that include:

2+ Sv.
Wings.
Thorax Weapon.

There are more things on that list, but I was not told what they are.

My source was coaching me about my army selection and questioned why my Winged Tyrant didn't have a 2+ Sv.
He was quite adamant that I could and I had to quote the list entry for the Tyrant to him.

His reply was: "That's how we've been playing them".

Take from that what you will.

Secondly... new kits.

I don't know whether to take as salt or not:

Warriors have been redone with the kit serving as Warriors and Shrikes. Box of three.

Termagants have been redone to include all weapons. Box of ten.

Genestealers have been redone. You can make Ymgarl Stealers from the box. More than one set of cthulu faces. Box of ten.

I hope this is true. Cannot wait for this release.

Puscifer wrote:
Tiny bit of new stuff I've been told from my source...

Tyrants will be able to choose two from a list of biomorphs that include:

2+ Sv.
Wings.
Thorax Weapon.

There are more things on that list, but I was not told what they are.

My source was coaching me about my army selection and questioned why my Winged Tyrant didn't have a 2+ Sv.
He was quite adamant that I could and I had to quote the list entry for the Tyrant to him.

His reply was: "That's how we've been playing them".

Take from that what you will.

Secondly... new kits.

I don't know whether to take as salt or not:

Warriors have been redone with the kit serving as Warriors and Shrikes. Box of three.

Termagants have been redone to include all weapons. Box of ten.

Genestealers have been redone. You can make Ymgarl Stealers from the box. More than one set of cthulu faces. Box of ten.

I hope this is true. Cannot wait for this release.

Thanks for sharing..but, I hate to say it, but between the nasty ap2 eldar weapons and grav weapons, 2+ save is not what it used to be...

I, as many others, hope the nid dex is strong but balanced, and supports many different builds.

davethepak wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Tiny bit of new stuff I've been told from my source...

Tyrants will be able to choose two from a list of biomorphs that include:

2+ Sv.
Wings.
Thorax Weapon.

There are more things on that list, but I was not told what they are.

My source was coaching me about my army selection and questioned why my Winged Tyrant didn't have a 2+ Sv.
He was quite adamant that I could and I had to quote the list entry for the Tyrant to him.

His reply was: "That's how we've been playing them".

Take from that what you will.

Secondly... new kits.

I don't know whether to take as salt or not:

Warriors have been redone with the kit serving as Warriors and Shrikes. Box of three.

Termagants have been redone to include all weapons. Box of ten.

Genestealers have been redone. You can make Ymgarl Stealers from the box. More than one set of cthulu faces. Box of ten.

I hope this is true. Cannot wait for this release.

Thanks for sharing..but, I hate to say it, but between the nasty ap2 eldar weapons and grav weapons, 2+ save is not what it used to be...

I, as many others, hope the nid dex is strong but balanced, and supports many different builds.

So what, are they supposed to give them a 1+ save? Or a ridiculous invulnerable? Or Eternal Warrior? Those aren't the only measures of durability. How you play the army as a whole, how you utilize cover, and/or how the beast is delivered are just as important.

BoLS did a review of Chaplain Grimaldus where the entire thing basically boiled down to, "He doesn't have Eternal Warrior, so he's not worth it."

Not everything should be able to get around every weapon and take their normal saves. Just cost a unit appropriately based on what else it can do within the army, and be creative as a player in how to use it.

Tyranids should get shot to pieces.

I agree with you about balance and variety.

I can see the Tyrant and Swarmlord getting a 4+ inv or at least a biomorph that lets you have a 4+ inv.

As for synapse, I've heard it's giving EW again or at the very least FnP.

I also agree that Grav Weapons are going to be the bane of the Tyranids MC, but also agree to a point with Brassangel that Nids should get shot up.

I'm hoping that Carnifex gets his 2+ back. That instantly makes him a much better choice.

One other tidbit... I've heard Tyrant Guard getting the same saves as the Tyrant or Swarmlord they are attached to.

So if your Tyrant has a 3+, they get a 3+. But if the Tyrant has a 2+, they get a 2+.

Again, take with salt if necessary. My source was bang on target with Tau and specifically the Riptide, but totally off on the Marines.

I could see the TG getting that though, as that streamlines the squad quite nicely.

I think 2+ saves would be huge for the MCs. It'd keep the missile launchers and most of the dakka at bay. Trygons might need it most. It's frustrating how many times I've seen Tyranid MCs lose their last wound or two to lowly bolter or lasgun wounds. But god knows SMs need their W4 characters with EW and 2+/3++.

If the studio is still allergic to the notion of 2+ armor, invulnerable saves and/or eternal warrior, a somewhat out-of-the-box approach to Tyranid durability would be to pile on extra wounds. So Tyrants and Carnifexes go to maybe W6, Trygons to W8. Gives people their "shooting them up" fix (again, it's really great that seeing my units go poof is so much fun for my opponent...whee) but keeps them operating longer. It checks the "cinematic" box ("they're still coming!") and provides a somewhat different and "Tyranid" solution to MC durability.

But again, I'm keeping my expectations low about major overhauls based on how the 6th ed codicies have looked so far.

 Tyran wrote:

 ferret61 wrote:
Cruddace did alright with gaurd and WOC

He is alright with human armies, just keep him a kilometer away from xenos.

Tell that to Sisters players.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 ferret61 wrote:
Cruddace did alright with gaurd and WOC

He is alright with human armies, just keep him a kilometer away from xenos.

Tell that to Sisters players.

Some of us like the WD codex.

 gorgon wrote:
I think 2+ saves would be huge for the MCs. It'd keep the missile launchers and most of the dakka at bay. Trygons might need it most. It's frustrating how many times I've seen Tyranid MCs lose their last wound or two to lowly bolter or lasgun wounds. But god knows SMs need their W4 characters with EW and 2+/3++.

If the studio is still allergic to the notion of 2+ armor, invulnerable saves and/or eternal warrior, a somewhat out-of-the-box approach to Tyranid durability would be to pile on extra wounds. So Tyrants and Carnifexes go to maybe W6, Trygons to W8. Gives people their "shooting them up" fix (again, it's really great that seeing my units go poof is so much fun for my opponent...whee) but keeps them operating longer. It checks the "cinematic" box ("they're still coming!") and provides a somewhat different and "Tyranid" solution to MC durability.

But again, I'm keeping my expectations low about major overhauls based on how the 6th ed codicies have looked so far.

Tyranids were really good at the era of 100 (ish) point Dakkafexes and ever since the MCs have been overpriced. Like you said, the game has a lot of T5 and T6 models with lots of wounds, 2+ saves and 3+ or worse invulnerable saves. I can't see any reason why Tyranids shouldn't get the same treatment. I wouldn't be against every single TMC being able to buy a 2+ save and a 5+ invulnerable save, nor would I be against a 'signature item' 3+ invulnerable save for one Hive Tyrant / Prime. There's nothing wrong with tons of available upgrades as long as they cost an appropriate amount of points. Likewise the only time I'd be fine with 4 wound TMCs (with 3+ as and no invulnerable) anymore is if they cost 100 points a pop again.

 pretre wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 ferret61 wrote:
Cruddace did alright with gaurd and WOC

He is alright with human armies, just keep him a kilometer away from xenos.

Tell that to Sisters players.

Some of us like the WD codex.

People liking it does not negate some of the serious issues the codex has, nor does it validate the massive drop in options for Sisters armies.

There's easily a host of issues just with the Canoness, which is one choice out of the whole book. I know you know the issues, so I don't see the point in breaking it down.

The real question I guess becomes "Do you like it more than what it replaced?"

 streamdragon wrote:
The real question I guess becomes "Do you like it more than what it replaced?"

Then Codex: Witch Hunters? Yes.
Then the old WD Codex ("Codex: Chapter Approved")? No.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 ferret61 wrote:
Cruddace did alright with gaurd and WOC

He is alright with human armies, just keep him a kilometer away from xenos.

Tell that to Sisters players.

Oh well, keep him away from xenos and women.
Not only he is a xenophobic, but also a misogynist.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Remember though that Genestealers have +1 WS, T, and I compared to Daemonettes. That said, I have no doubt they'll see a points drop, maybe as low as 10 or 11 points.

I'd rather see them stay at say 15 points, bump to 4+ armor (with Broodlord at 3+) with built in assault grenades equivalent.

Sasori wrote:Kelly has been hit or miss with 6th so far. CSM was a pretty poor book overall, while Eldar was great. Daemons were in the middle being "ok"

Jeremy Vetock has had a pretty good track record so far, with Tau being on the stronger side.

We haven't seen anything from Ward yet, I hope he does write it though.

No Cruddace though. It's pretty clear he doesn't do well unless it's an army he likes.

So how do you know which armies he likes? And no circular reasoning by stating, "Well he clearly likes Space Marines and Imperial Guard because they are good codices!" Has he said which armies he likes?

Puscifer wrote:I can see the Tyrant and Swarmlord getting a 4+ inv or at least a biomorph that lets you have a 4+ inv.

As for synapse, I've heard it's giving EW again or at the very least FnP.

I also agree that Grav Weapons are going to be the bane of the Tyranids MC, but also agree to a point with Brassangel that Nids should get shot up.

I'm hoping that Carnifex gets his 2+ back. That instantly makes him a much better choice.

One other tidbit... I've heard Tyrant Guard getting the same saves as the Tyrant or Swarmlord they are attached to.

So if your Tyrant has a 3+, they get a 3+. But if the Tyrant has a 2+, they get a 2+.

Again, take with salt if necessary. My source was bang on target with Tau and specifically the Riptide, but totally off on the Marines.

I could see the TG getting that though, as that streamlines the squad quite nicely.

I could see the TG getting something like that, if only to avoid wound allocation and armor save issues. Otherwise, the rest of the stuff just sounds like wish-listing. I can't think of too many instances where GW eliminated a rule with one codex, and then brought it back in the next.

Therion wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I think 2+ saves would be huge for the MCs. It'd keep the missile launchers and most of the dakka at bay. Trygons might need it most. It's frustrating how many times I've seen Tyranid MCs lose their last wound or two to lowly bolter or lasgun wounds. But god knows SMs need their W4 characters with EW and 2+/3++.

If the studio is still allergic to the notion of 2+ armor, invulnerable saves and/or eternal warrior, a somewhat out-of-the-box approach to Tyranid durability would be to pile on extra wounds. So Tyrants and Carnifexes go to maybe W6, Trygons to W8. Gives people their "shooting them up" fix (again, it's really great that seeing my units go poof is so much fun for my opponent...whee) but keeps them operating longer. It checks the "cinematic" box ("they're still coming!") and provides a somewhat different and "Tyranid" solution to MC durability.

But again, I'm keeping my expectations low about major overhauls based on how the 6th ed codicies have looked so far.

Tyranids were really good at the era of 100 (ish) point Dakkafexes and ever since the MCs have been overpriced. Like you said, the game has a lot of T5 and T6 models with lots of wounds, 2+ saves and 3+ or worse invulnerable saves. I can't see any reason why Tyranids shouldn't get the same treatment. I wouldn't be against every single TMC being able to buy a 2+ save and a 5+ invulnerable save, nor would I be against a 'signature item' 3+ invulnerable save for one Hive Tyrant / Prime. There's nothing wrong with tons of available upgrades as long as they cost an appropriate amount of points. Likewise the only time I'd be fine with 4 wound TMCs (with 3+ as and no invulnerable) anymore is if they cost 100 points a pop again.

Tyranids were NOT really good when a Carnifex was 113-115 (which was the Dakka and Boom variant costs). Carnifexes were good at that price point, but then the list was still mono-build. The Carnifex itself was just too damn efficient, really, and thus you ran 5-6 with nothing else being relevant. So on the whole, Tyranids themselves weren't good.

I don't want to trade one mono-build codex for another. The Carnifex should be big, heavy, and expensive. But his expense should come with stats and abilities that match the cost.

MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Remember though that Genestealers have +1 WS, T, and I compared to Daemonettes. That said, I have no doubt they'll see a points drop, maybe as low as 10 or 11 points.

I'd rather see them stay at say 15 points, bump to 4+ armor (with Broodlord at 3+) with built in assault grenades equivalent.

There's no reason for them to be at 4+ armor, but I could buy it. Assault Grenades equivalent is also an unimaginative idea; I don't want what other armies have. Give me a way for them to get into combat the turn they arrive, or at least assault after running. Most of what they charge isn't going to kill them before they strike back anyway. Furthermore, how are you guys always assaulting into cover? I've had that happen maybe once or twice in 6th edition. I guess I try to avoid assaulting those locations with anything but Gaunts and Monstrous Creatures, and save Genestealers and Hive Tyrants for things I've drawn out into the open. The inability to assault from Infiltrate/Deep Strike/Flanking is a far bigger issue in any game of 40k than assaulting into cover. In fact, I can't even remember the last time I played against someone who just sat a unit I wanted to assault into cover. Play the missions: most objectives are not in cover and those are what you need to focus on. If the opponent plans on getting those objectives, they won't have much luck just hanging out in a crater.

So how do you know which armies he likes? And no circular reasoning by stating, "Well he clearly likes Space Marines and Imperial Guard because they are good codices!" Has he said which armies he likes?

He has spoken about it in White dwarf a few times.

 brassangel wrote:

MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Remember though that Genestealers have +1 WS, T, and I compared to Daemonettes. That said, I have no doubt they'll see a points drop, maybe as low as 10 or 11 points.

I'd rather see them stay at say 15 points, bump to 4+ armor (with Broodlord at 3+) with built in assault grenades equivalent.

There's no reason for them to be at 4+ armor, but I could buy it. Assault Grenades equivalent is also an unimaginative idea; I don't want what other armies have. Give me a way for them to get into combat the turn they arrive, or at least assault after running. Most of what they charge isn't going to kill them before they strike back anyway. Furthermore, how are you guys always assaulting into cover? I've had that happen maybe once or twice in 6th edition. I guess I try to avoid assaulting those locations with anything but Gaunts and Monstrous Creatures, and save Genestealers and Hive Tyrants for things I've drawn out into the open. The inability to assault from Infiltrate/Deep Strike/Flanking is a far bigger issue in any game of 40k than assaulting into cover. In fact, I can't even remember the last time I played against someone who just sat a unit I wanted to assault into cover. Play the missions: most objectives are not in cover and those are what you need to focus on. If the opponent plans on getting those objectives, they won't have much luck just hanging out in a crater.

I don't play nids. I play against them, and they tend to wipe me out (good player, plus a list that rolls 20+ times on the psychic charts is annoying)
That said, Genestealers really need to be able to assault into/through cover at Initiative. That is practically their purpose- the iconic image is a genestealer assaulting a terminator through the cramped and wrecked corridors of a space hulk- falling to gunfire (ok, maybe 5+ would fit so bolters/storm bolters could kill them) but ripping apart the marines as soon as they get within range.

As for assaulting into cover, often it is necessary to get rid of units sitting on objectives, or shooty units sitting in ruins or on a hill, or behind an aegis line. When there is a proper amount of terrain on the table, an assault focused unit will be attacking into cover fairly often.

No wishlisting on my part there Brassangel.

I'm only the messenger.

My main hope for the new codex is just being able to bring "Those units". The rumor that said "Everything viable", was by far the most exciting to me. I was to try lictors and pyrovores. I want to bring the parasite or tyranofex. I want to field OLD ONE EYE. gak, I just want to be able to use my codex.

GEnestealers are great. I have always run a stealer heavy army and had great success with it. Bring back rending on the to hit roll! THey ate terminators.

Joking aside, monsters have always seemed a points sink, when really stealers are better all rounders : troops, great combat, generally awesome. I liked the old codecies with the mutable and upgrade options, so s5 stealers. Fun times!

Worse save, easier to get shot up on the charge, if a trygon takes 6 boltgun rounds, it'll probably get one wound with a 1/3 of a chance to fail.

Stealers, no save unless in cover and wounding on 4's...


I prefer my Monsters

If nids get EW on everything in synapse or a primaris psychic power that gives EW to everything in synapse I don't think the big winners will be MC. I think the big winners will be the 3 wound t4 medium sized nids. Large numbers of warriors and raveners would be very difficult to deal with if they have some kind of access to EW.

 schadenfreude wrote:
If nids get EW on everything in synapse or a primaris psychic power that gives EW to everything in synapse I don't think the big winners will be MC. I think the big winners will be the 3 wound t4 medium sized nids. Large numbers of warriors and raveners would be very difficult to deal with if they have some kind of access to EW.

It would make sense with the suspected new Warrior/Shrike kit.

BOLS has a rumor that primes no longer upgrade stats for their squad, but instead an upgraded squad can be purchased. The prime and enhanced squad are t5, auto pass los, and are +1 wsbs

Lash whip bone sword will probably be too expensive, but rending + poison is good enough to be scary on multi wound t5 critters.

We have no idea if any of the rumors are solid, so a "rumored Warrior/Shrike kit", while plausible, hasn't been whispered among those with credibility.

So does the Dark Elves out this month affect my Tyranid start date

Still waiting on that one.

 SJM wrote:
So does the Dark Elves out this month affect my Tyranid start date

No,

but Dark Elves version 2.0 out next month certainly does

it looks like Tyranuary instead of Nidvenber for sure