Tyranid Rumours (1st post updated with hive guard pic.)

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**Tyran**

brassangel wrote:
Gutsnagga wrote:
brassangel wrote:
Gutsnagga wrote:
brassangel wrote:
Could very well be a nasty anti-air gun. Whatever it is, it would be new, and therefore sexy.

Personally, I'm hoping that hive guard will get the skyfire rule. It fits pretty well with the weapon description, and it means they'll be able to excel against low armour flyers with their high strength, shoot-around-corners double-shot weapons. Who needs flying monstrous creatures?

I wonder if the Hive Guard just may have two fire modes, or there will be two variants of the Hive Guard.

My hunch is, if they do get a Skyfire mode, it will be S7, not S8. That just seems to be the sweet spot in the game right now.

Mmm, yes, two fire modes would be good. It improves their utility considerably.
Yeah S7 seems to be pretty popular amongst flakk at the moment, but who knows? Maybe GW will actually make a tyranid-bio-engineered-super-weapon actually better than its imperial equivalent for once?

I think being a multi-wound, T6 3+ save model that can hide indefinitely, move and fire without line of sight, all while ignoring cover already makes it better than any Imperial Equivalent. Most of theirs are just lightly armored things that can't move and fall apart like paper. We can cast Catalyst or Onslaught on ours as well (assuming that option remains). S7 multi-shot from a BS4 model with everything listed above, in a brood of up to 3? That's plenty.

Some people just want anti-flyer shooting that's unrealistic, and/or far too reliable. GW wants fliers to be good. Not just for model sales, but so people actually have a reason to take them. They aren't going to give anyone a gun with range 72" S8+ Assault 9, twin-linked, master-crafted, Skyfire, Destructor, ignore cover, armorbane, melta, lance, soulblaze. I'm ranting now, but on a lot of sites, that's basically what people want.

I want that... in a GC version of the Hive Guard... the Hiero...Guard?

**brassangel**

Hiverophantguardofex.

**-Loki-**

brassangel wrote:
I think being a multi-wound, T6 3+ save model that can hide indefinitely, move and fire without line of sight, all while ignoring cover already makes it better than any Imperial Equivalent. Most of theirs are just lightly armored things that can't move and fall apart like paper. We can cast Catalyst or Onslaught on ours as well (assuming that option remains). S7 multi-shot from a BS4 model with everything listed above, in a brood of up to 3? That's plenty.

Almost - 4+ save. That makes them plenty vulnerable once they do get found with all the Autocannons and equivalents going around still.

**brassangel**

-Loki- wrote:
brassangel wrote:
I think being a multi-wound, T6 3+ save model that can hide indefinitely, move and fire without line of sight, all while ignoring cover already makes it better than any Imperial Equivalent. Most of theirs are just lightly armored things that can't move and fall apart like paper. We can cast Catalyst or Onslaught on ours as well (assuming that option remains). S7 multi-shot from a BS4 model with everything listed above, in a brood of up to 3? That's plenty.

Almost - 4+ save. That makes them plenty vulnerable once they do get found with all the Autocannons and equivalents going around still.

Oh yes. Good catch.

Even then, I think people are normally shooting them how? They are usually in a building or behind a monster. Plasma at close range, I suppose, but that's AP2 and will take out most infantry anyway. It's S7 and so it's going to kill any fixed gun platform just as easily.

Really the Hive Guard are/would be still a better option than the Imperial equivalent. And again, we can give ours FNP. Are people fielding a ton of autocannons on a delivery system that can hunt and wipe out a brood of 3 Hive Guard reliably while denying them a cover save? Or without getting immediately charged and wiped out the following turn?

I guess I don't feel the 4+ undoes all of the other things that make Hive Guard better than the platforms for AA people feel would be more sufficient.

**DufenDorgen**

brassangel wrote:
-Loki- wrote:
brassangel wrote:
I think being a multi-wound, T6 3+ save model that can hide indefinitely, move and fire without line of sight, all while ignoring cover already makes it better than any Imperial Equivalent. Most of theirs are just lightly armored things that can't move and fall apart like paper. We can cast Catalyst or Onslaught on ours as well (assuming that option remains). S7 multi-shot from a BS4 model with everything listed above, in a brood of up to 3? That's plenty.

Almost - 4+ save. That makes them plenty vulnerable once they do get found with all the Autocannons and equivalents going around still.

Oh yes. Good catch.

Even then, I think people are normally shooting them how? They are usually in a building or behind a monster. Plasma at close range, I suppose, but that's AP2 and will take out most infantry anyway. It's S7 and so it's going to kill any fixed gun platform just as easily.

Really the Hive Guard are/would be still a better option than the Imperial equivalent. And again, we can give ours FNP. Are people fielding a ton of autocannons on a delivery system that can hunt and wipe out a brood of 3 Hive Guard reliably while denying them a cover save? Or without getting immediately charged and wiped out the following turn?

I guess I don't feel the 4+ undoes all of the other things that make Hive Guard better than the platforms for AA people feel would be more sufficient.

Hive guard are an undoubtedly good unit.

On a side note I played against a marine player with the new centurions. 15 grav shots and 3 missile launchers on 3 5T 2 wounder 2+ save models is about 190pts. For a little more, we can field 3 lictors.

**BunnyCommando**

DufenDorgen wrote:
Hive guard are an undoubtedly good unit.

On a side note I played against a marine player with the new centurions. 15 grav shots and 3 missile launchers on 3 5T 2 wounder 2+ save models is about 190pts. For a little more, we can field 3 lictors.

Someone pulled a fast one on you there my friend, that unit is a lot more than 190 points...

**DufenDorgen**

BunnyCommando wrote:
DufenDorgen wrote:
Hive guard are an undoubtedly good unit.

On a side note I played against a marine player with the new centurions. 15 grav shots and 3 missile launchers on 3 5T 2 wounder 2+ save models is about 190pts. For a little more, we can field 3 lictors.

Someone pulled a fast one on you there my friend, that unit is a lot more than 190 points...

How much is 3 centurions with missiles and grav weapons then? And I tabled him turn 5 so I don't think it made much of a difference.

**xttz**

DufenDorgen wrote:
BunnyCommando wrote:
DufenDorgen wrote:
Hive guard are an undoubtedly good unit.

On a side note I played against a marine player with the new centurions. 15 grav shots and 3 missile launchers on 3 5T 2 wounder 2+ save models is about 190pts. For a little more, we can field 3 lictors.

Someone pulled a fast one on you there my friend, that unit is a lot more than 190 points...
How much is 3 centurions with missiles and grav weapons then? And I tabled him turn 5 so I don't think it made much of a difference.

190pts is the base cost without upgrades... to get grav+missiles on them it's an extra +30pts per model.

**DufenDorgen**

xttz wrote:
DufenDorgen wrote:
BunnyCommando wrote:
DufenDorgen wrote:
Hive guard are an undoubtedly good unit.

On a side note I played against a marine player with the new centurions. 15 grav shots and 3 missile launchers on 3 5T 2 wounder 2+ save models is about 190pts. For a little more, we can field 3 lictors.

Someone pulled a fast one on you there my friend, that unit is a lot more than 190 points...
How much is 3 centurions with missiles and grav weapons then? And I tabled him turn 5 so I don't think it made much of a difference.

190pts is the base cost without upgrades... to get grav+missiles on them it's an extra +30pts per model.

Good, 190 seemed way too cheap. On another side note, does anyone else love enfeeble as much as I do? I know iron arm and endurance are the favorites but I find that well placed enfeebles win games.

**xttz**

DufenDorgen wrote:
Good, 190 seemed way too cheap. On another side note, does anyone else love enfeeble as much as I do? I know iron arm and endurance are the favorites but I find that well placed enfeebles win games.

I'd probably value it more if Nids had some better ranged weaponry to take advantage of the ID possibilities. Both the S8 Impaler Cannon and S10 Rupture Cannon are only AP4, so virtually everything you're pushing down from T5/T6 will still get a save.

The best use I can see is to make enemy melee units less effective versus your own melee gribblies.

**rigeld2**

DufenDorgen wrote:
On a side note I played against a marine player with the new centurions. 15 grav shots and 3 missile launchers on 3 5T 2 wounder 2+ save models is about 190pts. For a little more, we can field 3 lictors.

I underestimated them once this weekend. First grav guns I've faced - flew both Flyrants up the middle (like I normally do) and shot at the Stalker instead of the Centurions (they don't have Skyfire). Poor rolling meant that the Stalker laughed at me, but I wasn't too depressed.

Then his tac squad fired bolters at my T9 warlord. I was grounded but didn't take a wound.
Then his Centurions hit and wounded my warlord 10 times. Wat.

**pretre**

From Larry Vela on BOLS:

The Tyranids are coming up next for 40K, but there is already talk of what Supplemental codices the GW Design Studio is planning.

Here is the latest word on what is coming in the wake of the Tyranid codex.

Hivefleet (Big Bugs - not real title 2014)
Focuses on Monstrous Creatures. Book adds variant rules for deployment and FOC changes for units like the Carnifex, letting you take them in both Heavy and Elites, plus the ability to operate independently. Hivefleet balances this with some prohibited units, and the inability to go first in any mission.

Hivefleet (Fast Bugs - not real title ???)
Focuses on high speed fast-moving bugs. FOC changes to emphasize these units such as Gargoyles as Troops, new abilities and special rules for Ravenors, while Gants get minor enhancements as well. This hivefleet is balanced by prohibiting "traditional" walking Monstrous Creatures. A new flying HQ unit is included.

Genestealer Cult (???)
The first "hybrid supplement" - this book will be a combined book for IG and Tyranids. It allows both codices to ally, but heavily restricts units selections on both. Look for smaller "infiltration bugs" such as Genestealers, Broodlords, Lictors and such from the Tyranid side while the Guard are very heavily restricted on units and heavy equipment. The list's HQ must include a psyker warlord from either the IG or Tyranid units allowed. A new psychic power list is included.

**rigeld2**

Larry Vela wrote:Hivefleet (Big Bugs - not real title 2014)
Focuses on Monstrous Creatures. Book adds variant rules for deployment and FOC changes for units like the Carnifex, letting you take them in both Heavy and Elites, plus the ability to operate independently. Hivefleet balances this with some prohibited units, and the inability to go first in any mission.

...
Oh. My. God. I'm extremely excited now.

**pretre**

rigeld2 wrote:
Larry Vela wrote:Hivefleet (Big Bugs - not real title 2014)
Focuses on Monstrous Creatures. Book adds variant rules for deployment and FOC changes for units like the Carnifex, letting you take them in both Heavy and Elites, plus the ability to operate independently. Hivefleet balances this with some prohibited units, and the inability to go first in any mission.

...
Oh. My. God. I'm extremely excited now.

I wouldn't get too excited, Mr Vela is a bit hit and miss.

Larry Vela - Total rumors: (19 TRUE) / (30 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

**rigeld2**

Don't rain on my parade man!

**c0j1r0**

Yeah, I don't buy it really. This is the same rumor/speculation that has been circulating for a few months now.

It would be awesome, and it seems like all the codecs are getting supplements, so it would make sense, but I'm not holding my breath.

**Quark**

Oh no, you're forced to always go last in an objectives based game? Such a disadvantage!

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Genestealer Cult (???)
The first "hybrid supplement" - this book will be a combined book for IG and Tyranids. It allows both codices to ally, but heavily restricts units selections on both. Look for smaller "infiltration bugs" such as Genestealers, Broodlords, Lictors and such from the Tyranid side while the Guard are very heavily restricted on units and heavy equipment. The list's HQ must include a psyker warlord from either the IG or Tyranid units allowed. A new psychic power list is included.

Now that would be outstanding (even though I don't actually play either), I have a real soft spot for the old Genestealer cult/background and it would be great to see some of it make a comeback

**Kroothawk**

pretre wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Larry Vela wrote:Hivefleet (Big Bugs - not real title 2014)
Focuses on Monstrous Creatures. Book adds variant rules for deployment and FOC changes for units like the Carnifex, letting you take them in both Heavy and Elites, plus the ability to operate independently. Hivefleet balances this with some prohibited units, and the inability to go first in any mission.

...
Oh. My. God. I'm extremely excited now.

I wouldn't get too excited, Mr Vela is a bit hit and miss.

Larry Vela - Total rumors: (19 TRUE) / (30 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

Well, even bad reputated rumours are better than the pointless discussion of wishlists clogging this thread.

**pretre**

Kroothawk wrote:
Well, even bad reputated rumours are better than the pointless discussion of wishlists clogging this thread.

Very true. It is the fate of most rumor threads, unfortunately...

**Kroothawk**

Well, let's do something about it:

Inquisitor Engel wrote:Not that I'm a reliable source or anything, but I've heard from a couple of people I still know at GW that the Tyranid Codex will be the first with no finecast. At all.

Should I repost that in the Sororitas thread between all those "I expect Sororitas to become the first all Finecast army" posts

**pretre**

Kroothawk wrote:
Well, let's do something about it:

Inquisitor Engel wrote:Not that I'm a reliable source or anything, but I've heard from a couple of people I still know at GW that the Tyranid Codex will be the first with no finecast. At all.

Should I repost that in the Sororitas thread between all those "I expect Sororitas to become the first all Finecast army" posts

The AS thread is becoming pretty nasty at this point. I check in a lot but it is mostly boob arguments and wishlisting.

Did the SM codex have finecast? Or he means none in the range?

**Kroothawk**

The SM Codex release had no finecast, but there are still many characters etc included with Finecast / metal miniatures. And they won't get rid of all the shoulder pads for a while, I guess.

**lord_blackfang**

The latest SM release had no Finecast. Same for Dark Elves, I believe.

Larry Vela's rumours sound like complete junk. Exactly the sort of thing people make up to cater to the grognards. Genestealer Cults? Come on, guys.

**General Duf**

bu11etmagn3tt wrote:
look what appeared on GW website in the last 24 hours!

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1180006a&prodId=prod2260020a&_requestid=1041772

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I know every army got a collection, but interesting timing...

Thats not terribly indicative of anything. CSM just got theirs and have been out for a year.

**BeeCee**

The paint sets are probably more of an indication of the holiday type bundles. what a great time to throw out a big paint set, around the holidays.

**Kirasu**

I think we need to get back down to earth about these "supplements". So far GW hasn't been using them to introduce any new styles of play or fill big gaps in stuff that was lost from 3rd edition.

All the supplements have been for is to add 5 relics, the ability to ally with yourself and a FoC change of some type. They are extremely minor and you could put all the rules on a single page.

The talk of these huge changes coming from a supplement seem horribly unwarranted given the examples we have.

**Bloodhorror**

This is true...

I'd forsee a Special Character Hive Tyrant. Something like One that comes as standard with wings and does a better Vector Strike. One that it can pick up and take an IC with it to the end of its movement and then become locked in combat with it.

All I look forward to is being able to ally with myself and take 4 Trygons in the Heavy Support Slot

**rigeld2**

I want my Carnifex swarm back :(

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

They did say (or at least rumour implied) that the earliest supplements were going to be the simplest

and later ones would be more complicated/difficult

so it's not impossible that a genestealer cults supplement could show up after the new nids AND IG codexes.... so probably late 2014 at best (although I agree it could just be wishlisting)