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The codex says that Basillius is an agent of Chaos, or rather was.

It doesn't say about ejecting his body into a nearby sun though, where did that come from?

Pilau Rice wrote:The codex says that Basillius is an agent of Chaos, or rather was.

So much for that, I guess!

Granted, this could still just be the official accusation rather than the truth, but for the moment (until more details are revealed) I'd rather take it as it is written.

Pilau Rice wrote:It doesn't say about ejecting his body into a nearby sun though, where did that come from?

That's from the first description in the 6E rulebook's timeline, I believe? It mentioned how his bones, a couple artifacts and a thousand of his followers were launched into a sun.

Of course this could have changed as well, just like apparently he now was already dead when the Marines returned, but as long as the origin of fluff remains the same (and in this case it's the GW core studio for both books), I try to combine it rather than dismiss one version over the other like I do when two or more pieces were written by different people. That's just my personal approach, though - there are no hard and fast rules for these sort of things in 40k, and even GW's own fluff is just possibilities twisted by legend. :/

 Lynata wrote:
Granted, this could still just be the official accusation rather than the truth, but for the moment (until more details are revealed) I'd rather take it as it is written.

Had a look again, he is revealed to be an Apostle of Chaos, I guess that's pretty much the same thing right?

 Lynata wrote:
That's from the first description in the 6E rulebook's timeline, I believe? It mentioned how his bones, a couple artifacts and a thousand of his followers were launched into a sun.

Will have to have a gander at that, thanks.

 Lynata wrote:
Of course this could have changed as well, just like apparently he now was already dead when the Marines returned, but as long as the origin of fluff remains the same (and in this case it's the GW core studio for both books), I try to combine it rather than dismiss one version over the other like I do when two or more pieces were written by different people. That's just my personal approach, though - there are no hard and fast rules for these sort of things in 40k, and even GW's own fluff is just possibilities twisted by legend. :/

I know, but you think there would be some consistency to what they write, especially when the two books weren't released that far apart. Ejecting the dudes body and his worshipers into the sun sounds pretty awesome and should have been included in the whole story surely.

Pilau Rice wrote:Had a look again, he is revealed to be an Apostle of Chaos, I guess that's pretty much the same thing right?

I really need to take a look at the entire thing... do they say anything about evidence, or does the state just posthumously sentence him to "be one" in a sort of show trial?

Pilau Rice wrote:I know, but you think there would be some consistency to what they write, especially when the two books weren't released that far apart.

Yeah, I'm a little disappointed at the lack of consistency as well - I'm quite used to it existing between different origins of fluff, but coming from the same source (and as you said in such a short time) it feels a bit meh.

Personally, in such cases I usually take the most recent telling of the story (as long as it comes from GW), and fill in any gaps with earlier fluff as long as the details I add this way do not conflict. So, in this example, it'll apparently be an agent of Chaos whose workings were only discovered after his death, but whose legend is then deconstructed and his remains (together with a bunch of relics and followers) thrown into a sun.

With the earlier comment, I just wanted to express that, given how this IP's background is treated by the writers, one could just as well take the earlier account and run with that if they prefer it, having the guy still be alive when the Marines return.

 Lynata wrote:
I really need to take a look at the entire thing...

yes, yes and..yes.

The original isn't inconsistent.
BRB 6th p170/171 + CSM 6th p17/18/19.

Basilius was alive when the marines returned...

The whole story seems like a vessel to hand some new renegades to chaos. Why else should we have a few lines in the BrB and 3 pages in codex CSM?

Whole thing was probably plotted out by Chaos from the start of Basilius' career, with him earning the Imperium's trust by purging Chaos (just as planned by Tzeentch, probably), the gods either creating the warp storm or anticipating it and working it into their plans, and then Basilius using that trust and the warpstorm to give Chaos a wonderful special delivery of marines to corrupt. The chaos fleet that attacked the marines clearly knew the marines were coming. Really, the entire marine fleet was set upon by an even bigger chaos fleet within HOURS of reaching the eye. Getting a response that large and fast in SPACE could only mean the whole thing was planned.

Basilius' long life was probably either a gift from Chaos or given to him so he could continue to corrupt the Imperium even long after his greater purpose was already achieved. Although it's kinda odd that he was granted such a long life but wasn't granted daemon princedom. ...or was he? Dundundun....

Since he had mortal remains to throw into a star, he did not.

Rejuvenation technology - Dante is proof that the Imperium has the technology to change people in a way that they live a very long time.

That being said, I wouldn't discount some psychic power tapping the energies of the Immaterium - aka a "gift of the Chaos Gods" - to work similar effects. Special powers would certainly make a man more believable as an avatar of the Emperor.
The Inquisition should have ways to detect it .. but then again, my own theory regarding the nature of Saint Celestine requires such tests to not be 100% reliable, so ...

1hadhq wrote:yes, yes and..yes.
The original isn't inconsistent.
BRB 6th p170/171 + CSM 6th p17/18/19.
Basilius was alive when the marines returned...

See, this is what I get for believing what Lexicanum says. I really need to heed my own advice.

When has Dante ever been confirmed as using rejuvenation technology? When has any Space Marine used it?

Dante's longevity comes down to the natural longevity of Space Marines, enhanced by his Blood Angel's gene-seed. They're noted as living longer than other marines. In Dante's case he's likely also had a healthy does of luck to last as long as he has.

Note that i'm not disputing the existence of rejuvant treatments, they exist and are effective but i've seen nothing suggesting Dante's used them or even if the process works on Space Marines.

The rejuve process exists only in name in the setting. We're not really provided with any further details other than it's a thing the wealthy and important can get to live longer. Given that, there's not yet an aspect to it that would make it not work on Space Marines.

For all we know, it's like a Skeksis sort of thing.

rems01 wrote:Dante's longevity comes down to the natural longevity of Space Marines, enhanced by his Blood Angel's gene-seed

... which are a form of rejuvenation.

I know this isn't said anywhere, but given that this Imperium has technology that can normal people live longer, I see no reason why whatever causes Space Marines to live longer couldn't be the same thing.
Note how none of the organs detailed in the creation process was said to have anything to do with Marine longevity. Of course, it is entirely plausible to assume that "the sum of its parts" has this effect, but at the same time it could be assumed that they simply receive whatever lets the normal people live longer with their regular dose of body regulation drugs.
Even the Blood Angels' increased longevity might not actually have much to do with their geneseed directly but rather with the Chapter having applied a better hand at preserving its creation protocols. Knowledge about technical and surgical procedures between the Chapters supposedly varies wildly and directly affects the efficiency of the conversion, the gene-seed, and the resulting Space Marine. This would also explain why the Blood Angels' longevity somehow doesn't seem to extend to their Successor Chapters in spite of them also using Sanguinius' gene-seed..

Just a theory, mind you. It could just as well have something to do with the BA's unique way of transferring the gene-seed. I'm not aware of how exactly the Successor Chapters "do it", meaning whether they use the same transferrence via blood, or if they utilise the standard surgical protocols.

tl;dr: I currently hold the belief that the Space Marines simply receive "by default" the same treatment that otherwise is reserved for Imperial nobility, very rich individuals, or important heroes from other organisations.