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So ive been trying to squeeze some competitive juice out of the DA dex with the age of the heldrake slowly desending into 1-2 in a list at average this opens up some interesting options. Il present my list and then explain my thinking at the end. Any and all advice and criticism welcome. Id like to hear what the potential gaps+ bad match ups are for this list.
1850 pts
IG ally detachment
50 pts. -Company command squad

30 pts-Platoon Command squad

50 pts-x10 guardsmen(attached to power armor libby)

150 pts-x30 guardsmen attached to Azrael(modeled as a lord inquisitor)

130 pts-vendetta gunship
130 pts-vendetta gunship
155 pts-Vulture gunship with gatling punisher cannons
220 pts- x2 Manticore tanks

DA primary
95 pts- librarian with power field generator and force axe

185 pts- Drop pod(x5 combat squad with meltagun, x5 combat squad)

205 pts- Drop pod with locator beacon(x5 combat squad with meltagun, x5 combat squad with meltagun)

235 pts- Deathwing terminator sqaud with plasma cannon(counts as troop choice)

215 pts- Azrael ( rolling with the 30 man blob)


My strategy is to drop pod assualt the first pod of poor sods with the locator beacon into enemy lines. They are expected to melta any AA or High value Targets and then get wiped. Basically i want them to make their points back with the melta, draw fire away from the locator beacon drop pod. My libby power fields both maticores while casting prescience on one a turn making them more effective and harder to kill. Azrael marches his 4+ invul blob right down their throat and also draws fire with the CCS behind to issue FRFSRF and move move move. Second turn Deathwing comes in via deathwing assualt and lays down twinlinked fire. Hopfully second drop pod rolls down also to support Deathwing. If not theirs three flyers potentially coming in to back them up.
In conclusion, im not quite happy with the drop pod elements and i feel it will be easy for an opponent to destroy peicemail my podders..... however it might be the perfect diversion for my blob to seize mid board and any objective within it.
Comments...advice....face palming?

 lonedrow02 wrote:
So ive been trying to squeeze some competitive juice out of the DA dex with the age of the heldrake slowly desending into 1-2 in a list at average this opens up some interesting options. Il present my list and then explain my thinking at the end. Any and all advice and criticism welcome. Id like to hear what the potential gaps+ bad match ups are for this list.
1850 pts
IG ally detachment
50 pts. -Company command squad

These guys are good for leadership buffs and being cheap, but without the Standard, and with most of the IG using Fearless/ATSKNF characters, they really add nothing to the army. Consider a primaris psyker, they can roll on biomancy and get some good buffs/debuffs that will massively help large infantry squads.

30 pts-Platoon Command squad

50 pts-x10 guardsmen(attached to power armor libby)

150 pts-x30 guardsmen attached to Azrael(modeled as a lord inquisitor)

I would run these as 2x 20 man squads, the 10 man squad will just die to easily, possibly give FB, and will not really last long enough to score. I would also get some upgrades for these guys if you can, even a flamer makes them more useful.

130 pts-vendetta gunship
130 pts-vendetta gunship
155 pts-Vulture gunship with gatling punisher cannons

This can only be done if IG are the primary detachment, as you only have one FA slot. Unless you plan on using them as one squadron, which is overkill and lacks weapon synergy. See if you can rejig the list to get IG as primary and give these guys better use.

220 pts- x2 Manticore tanks

See above, you dont have enough slots for this unless IG are the primary detachment. Also you are underpaying for these, manticores are 160 points.

DA primary
95 pts- librarian with power field generator and force axe

see above, this will work but Iwould use a larger squad of guardsmen.

185 pts- Drop pod(x5 combat squad with meltagun, x5 combat squad)

205 pts- Drop pod with locator beacon(x5 combat squad with meltagun, x5 combat squad with meltagun)
[/quote
You can't have 2 meltaguns in the squad, otherwise this seems good. For more alpha-strike capability, add combi-meltas to the Sergeant.]

235 pts- Deathwing terminator sqaud with plasma cannon(counts as troop choice)

consider getting some DWK instead, then they can be used as elites, making this a legal allied detachment.

215 pts- Azrael ( rolling with the 30 man blob)

I see the plan with the guardsmen, but he is expensive for the task. This can work, though, but you need to make the most of it, so get the guardsmen some weapons so their survivability means something.

I'm very confused by this list to be honest, your guard allied detachment has too many FA and HS, and your DA seems to lack real force. To make this kind of list work, here is my suggestion:

Make the guard your primary detachment, and get a CCS with standard, and 2 40-man platoons. Give one LC for defence (insert Azrael here), the other flamers or meltas for running across the field and being a distraction.

Use 2 DP tac squads and some DWK as the DA allied detachment, as above, for an alpha-strike (DP meltas and DWK T1, follow up with second pod T2) and keep the rest of the guard (manticores and fliers) roughly the same. This makes the list legal and more effecient, losing only the PA libby in exchange for better focus and efficiency.


Good matchups: mech armies, CC armies
Bad matchups: interceptor tau, MSU eldar

hope that helps.

 Paradigm wrote:

 lonedrow02 wrote:
So ive been trying to squeeze some competitive juice out of the DA dex with the age of the heldrake slowly desending into 1-2 in a list at average this opens up some interesting options. Il present my list and then explain my thinking at the end. Any and all advice and criticism welcome. Id like to hear what the potential gaps+ bad match ups are for this list.
1850 pts
IG ally detachment
50 pts. -Company command squad

These guys are good for leadership buffs and being cheap, but without the Standard, and with most of the IG using Fearless/ATSKNF characters, they really add nothing to the army. Consider a primaris psyker, they can roll on biomancy and get some good buffs/debuffs that will massively help large infantry squads.

30 pts-Platoon Command squad

50 pts-x10 guardsmen(attached to power armor libby)

150 pts-x30 guardsmen attached to Azrael(modeled as a lord inquisitor)

I would run these as 2x 20 man squads, the 10 man squad will just die to easily, possibly give FB, and will not really last long enough to score. I would also get some upgrades for these guys if you can, even a flamer makes them more useful.

130 pts-vendetta gunship
130 pts-vendetta gunship
155 pts-Vulture gunship with gatling punisher cannons

This can only be done if IG are the primary detachment, as you only have one FA slot. Unless you plan on using them as one squadron, which is overkill and lacks weapon synergy. See if you can rejig the list to get IG as primary and give these guys better use.

220 pts- x2 Manticore tanks

See above, you dont have enough slots for this unless IG are the primary detachment. Also you are underpaying for these, manticores are 160 points.

DA primary
95 pts- librarian with power field generator and force axe

see above, this will work but Iwould use a larger squad of guardsmen.

185 pts- Drop pod(x5 combat squad with meltagun, x5 combat squad)

205 pts- Drop pod with locator beacon(x5 combat squad with meltagun, x5 combat squad with meltagun)
[/quote
You can't have 2 meltaguns in the squad, otherwise this seems good. For more alpha-strike capability, add combi-meltas to the Sergeant.]

235 pts- Deathwing terminator sqaud with plasma cannon(counts as troop choice)

consider getting some DWK instead, then they can be used as elites, making this a legal allied detachment.

215 pts- Azrael ( rolling with the 30 man blob)

I see the plan with the guardsmen, but he is expensive for the task. This can work, though, but you need to make the most of it, so get the guardsmen some weapons so their survivability means something.

I'm very confused by this list to be honest, your guard allied detachment has too many FA and HS, and your DA seems to lack real force. To make this kind of list work, here is my suggestion:

Make the guard your primary detachment, and get a CCS with standard, and 2 40-man platoons. Give one LC for defence (insert Azrael here), the other flamers or meltas for running across the field and being a distraction.

Use 2 DP tac squads and some DWK as the DA allied detachment, as above, for an alpha-strike (DP meltas and DWK T1, follow up with second pod T2) and keep the rest of the guard (manticores and fliers) roughly the same. This makes the list legal and more effecient, losing only the PA libby in exchange for better focus and efficiency.


Good matchups: mech armies, CC armies
Bad matchups: interceptor tau, MSU eldar

hope that helps.

Thanks a bundle for your advice, my main army is guard and im not quite used to them not being the primary but ill make them the primary. Your advice was concise and spot on, you can tell im a guard player lol because i just loaded up on the heavy hitters without even thinking of ally force org. Thanks again il produce a repaired list for review.

It's an easy mistake to make, especially with guard being able to cram so much into a single FOC or allied detachment.

so pretty much this list concept is going to get hurt by the taudar meta is what your saying?

 lonedrow02 wrote:
so pretty much this list concept is going to get hurt by the taudar meta is what your saying?

In a way.

I have yet to really experience the brutality of new tau/eldar, so I'm just basing this off batreps and other things I've read. The issues I can see is that the Tau, if loaded up on interceptor, will be able to remove a lot of your alpha-strike capability, doing a lot of damage to the DSing combat squads (although I believe they can only target the DPs, not the tacs) and the DWK, whilst still having the capability to fire back next turn.

I can see eldar causing problems with MSU, simply as the gurd blob can target only a single squad, and I'm not sure you'll have long enough to kill them all. Target priority is therefore key here.

This style of list can certainly be made to work, and has a pretty solid base to it. All you need to do is mske sure everything is the best it can be. The core is certainly good and workable, so don't give up on the list. In the current meta, Tau will hurt guard, and Eldar hurt MEQ, so the key focus of this list is making sure each half mitigates the other's weakness, rather than just focusing on the Azreal blob. Every element of the list needs to function together, not just work seperately.

Hope that helps.

You're probably best off with an IG primary and a Dark Angels secondary. Something like:

HQ:

CCS w/ 4 Plasma Guns: 110

FA:

Vendetta: 130

Vendetta: 130

Vulture: 155

HS:

Manticore: 160

Manticore: 160

Troops:

Platoon
PCS w/ 4 Flamers: 50 ** Goes in Vendetta
5IS w/ Power Axes & Melta Bombs: 325 ** Azrael goes here

Veteran Squad w/ 3 Plasma Guns, Harker, and Autocannon: 180

Allies:

Azrael: 215

Deathwing Terminator Squad w/ Plasma Cannon: 235


1850 on the dot



You have to run this list very aggressively. Basically, the CCS deploys behind the Blob. Azrael deploys with the blob. The Harker Vet squad sets up ~16" away from the Platoon Commander so that it will be in order radius next turn, while also being in range of your opponent's army. Ideally this will put them on a midfield objective. Manticores deploy behind BLOS terrain and, if possible, on opposite sides of the table so that they can't be attacked simultaneously. You probably want to Deep Strike the Deathwing Terminators T1 onto an objective. Alternatively, you could add a bunch of TH/SS to your DWTs in exchange for one of the CCS' Plasma Guns. This would allow you to use them more aggressively, and deepstrike closer to your opponent.

T1, the CCS and blob move up. The CCS casts "BiD" or "FomT" onto the Harker Vet squad, and FRFSRF on the blob. Your opponent will either castle up, in which case the Manticores will have a fething field day ordinance barraging his ass, or he will spread out, in which case you're pretty well set for a T2 charge with the blob.

It may not hurt to drop all of the Plasma Guns from the CCS and give it, instead, an Astropath to boost your reserve rolls (for your fliers), and throw some TH/SS onto the Deathwing Terminators, or give them better Heavy Weapons.

EDIT: didnt see bottom half of post
Im really liking that list. Im thinking the astropath and a few TH/SS in the squad will be more effective for the list. Put the TH/SS guys in front when i deepstrike incase i scatter in front of their guns.

 lonedrow02 wrote:
hrrrrmmmmmm...... I really like that list but what is harkers vet squad purpose? Do they infiltrate into a ruin close to an objective? whats their strategy?
Also im guessing the CCS follows the blob across or dwells within in close to the front...
I really like that list, please fill me in on the tactica

I edited my post to give you a little tactica.

To answer your question here, the Harker vet squad is there because A) another platoon is too expensive for what you need it to do, B) it can chill out upfield and wait for your CCS to move and give it orders on T1, and C) all of the other Troops options require Chimeras to be effective. If you only have one AV12 vehicle in line of sight, your opponent is going to point every lascannon at it and it's going to die.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 lonedrow02 wrote:
hrrrrmmmmmm...... I really like that list but what is harkers vet squad purpose? Do they infiltrate into a ruin close to an objective? whats their strategy?
Also im guessing the CCS follows the blob across or dwells within in close to the front...
I really like that list, please fill me in on the tactica

I edited my post to give you a little tactica.

To answer your question here, the Harker vet squad is there because A) another platoon is too expensive for what you need it to do, B) it can chill out upfield and wait for your CCS to move and give it orders on T1, and C) all of the other Troops options require Chimeras to be effective. If you only have one AV12 vehicle in line of sight, your opponent is going to point every lascannon at it and it's going to die.

awesome, thanks so much for list idea. Not only is it competitive but i run Catachans so it fits my army too.

 lonedrow02 wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 lonedrow02 wrote:
hrrrrmmmmmm...... I really like that list but what is harkers vet squad purpose? Do they infiltrate into a ruin close to an objective? whats their strategy?
Also im guessing the CCS follows the blob across or dwells within in close to the front...
I really like that list, please fill me in on the tactica

I edited my post to give you a little tactica.

To answer your question here, the Harker vet squad is there because A) another platoon is too expensive for what you need it to do, B) it can chill out upfield and wait for your CCS to move and give it orders on T1, and C) all of the other Troops options require Chimeras to be effective. If you only have one AV12 vehicle in line of sight, your opponent is going to point every lascannon at it and it's going to die.

awesome, thanks so much for list idea. Not only is it competitive but i run Catachans so it fits my army too.

Let us know how it plays!

Im thinking that the azrael blob will exert the same effect that an ork greentide army does on eldar. It will limit their movement and exploit their one weakness that is CC. Tau are also going to hit hard with the manticores by turtling.
I really have to play test this a bit. Anyone out their with relevant experience?

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
You're probably best off with an IG primary and a Dark Angels secondary. Something like:

Allies:

Azrael: 215

Deathwing Terminator Squad w/ Plasma Cannon: 235


1850 on the dot

I don't think it is valid, as far as ai remember if you choose Azrael he must be a warlord.

azzy only has to be warlord if he's in your primary detachment. also, it's a BRB rule that any FOC modifiers from the allied force will not take effect (in this case, your deathwing are not a troops choice)

Thanks guys, check out the new thread.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/546333.page