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@ spiralingcadaver
Oh like that…I’m sure I can work it out. And I love to model and Rackham has a real soft spot so… I think I’m getting sucked in…

I’m just waiting to see what factions I’ll get I’m sure Nasier Will be one. But I’m torn between Shael Han and Hadross.

I did my Wolfen time… and Pissy Gnomes n shark pigs lose me.

To tentacle or not to tentacle that is the question…

Those eyes on the Hadross worry me a little I can tell whats going on with the face…

Ok so I have a couple links for you guys.
Sample cards
http://www.coolminiornot.com/borg/Samplecards-Nasier-Teknes1.pdf
Demo Rules
http://www.coolminiornot.com/thelegion/Wok_Demo_Rules.pdf

Don’t say a grumpy old troll never did a kind deed.
And the one roll system seems cool I roll D10 vs. you card and the result has effect X easy enough…

It's the way a lot of these miniatures are going to be done by these smaller companies for the time being at least (and CMoN is still a small company at the end of the day) it costs them $5k to $10k to make one of these molds as they are rubber/silicone (or similar) as opposed to the $50k plus that a styrene plastic mold made from steel needs, so they can mold more miniatures in "Restic" than they can in Styrene, Stryene molds would probably only allow them to do one faction and people probably won't buy in for that.

The other interesting development is they seem to have come up with a way of doing sprueless styrene pieces - the weapons for Wrath of Kings and the Terrain and Drones for SW I'll be very interested to see what they are like when I get them. I must ask Mike about that process as it's new one to me (sprueless styrene that is).

Restic is a pain to clean up but I've found the details to be good on all the Restic miniatures I have and if it costs me $1 for a Restic mini or $15 for a Resin one I'll take 15 of the $1 ones (except for special one off pieces ) I have several of SW pieces in resin and while some of the details are a bit softer in the restic versions I wouldn't be to inclined to spend the extra on the resins as gaming pieces - as display pieces different story

Those are rigid metal tools, not rubber at all.

Besides, ~10K /frame is what Dreamforge was tooling PS sprues for, apiece, with WGF&co and really, rubber molds are the kind of thing you c an make in your shed once you have the masters in hand
Get the facts straight, please

 5deadly wrote:
And for the nudity… it’s causes an idiosyncratic reaction perfect for the target audience (males 15-40) and that reaction works well…
Ask 2 million plus KS mastermind and Kingdom death owner Adam Poots.
It’s for adults. I think it’s just fine. But I’m an Adult I can make that choice… the choice is there for me to make as an adult. If you don’t like it let you money talk but, Sex sells Always has, Always will… That will never change because we are mammals and sin hearted talking primates. Maybe someday we’ll evolve into some form of androgynous Startrek genderless 4 color unitard creatures. But until then we have girl and boy parts and most of us like them and we also like sexuality.

Where I think you are mistaken is that half of this stuff is fan disservice, to borrow a term from TV Tropes. I like the Blood Dancer with the claws and two of the three Pelagarths and the Dance Master look okay, but then you've also got some wolf-goat thing with its tits out, and jackals wearing corsets. I'm sure there's someone on the internet who likes them, but I think a lot of people would have a hard time seeing them even as worth $0, rather than actively lowering their perception of the value of the box.

Here's an interesting development the KS profile that Guillotine Games were using for the Zombicide KS has now changed to 5Houses - the team that's developing the WoK rules

http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/1317239907/comments

update from CMoN

Guillotine and 5 Houses have many common team members (including art and sculpt project leads) - but strictly speaking they're not the same.

I guess it's the same as a bunch of Cyper and Soda Pop folk making up Ninja Division for Robotech tactics

It helps keep projects separate for accounting reasons, and if anything goes wrong financially (gods forbid) with one company then you don't risk loosing your other IPs and cashflow

Out of curiosity, are there any size comparison photos out?

~Eric

 Alpharius wrote:
I think cincydooley is at GEN CON.

If someone spots him, let us know - otherwise, I'm worried about him!

Is he the guy in the red outfit on the left, or the skinny guy on the right?


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 5deadly wrote:

it's too cheap, theres too much nudity, it's too complex , it's not cheap enough, it's too dumbed down, theres not enough nudity, too much sword, too much like rackham, not enough like rackham, too steam punk, not enough gothic, too much gothic... Pheesh.
Pleasing you guys is a full time job.... just the PR nightmare that gamers can be
I’m getting upset so I’ll stop now.

Speaking for myself:

1) I don't like CMON. Based on a) Their past history. b) Their communication is great when asking you for money. After they have it - their communication is gak.
2) I don't like the material. I've painted a total of NONE Sedition Wars or DreadBall figures made out of this particular plastic to date. I've got no strong urge to start anytime soon. Spiralingcadaver's comments on the material sum it up well.
3) The designs of these figures don't do much for me. The Not-Devourer/Wolfen look fine, but I've got a ton of unpainted Wolfen already, so the one faction that's okay is a non-event for me.

 Taarnak wrote:
Out of curiosity, are there any size comparison photos out?

~Eric

Between the WoK models and other ranges? The original resins have been out for a bit so I'm sure there's something floating about, nothing on the KS page though afaik.
The videos give you a good sense of internal scale.

Liking this more and more for some reason, the factions feel much more coherent to me now.


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The material combo seems very much like what Adam was considering for Kingdom Death as the weapons seemed to be the biggest problem area for his original plastic test casts.
I know that he is loosely affiliated with CMoN so I wonder if this is a good indicator of what he will be doing for KD?

 Taarnak wrote:
Out of curiosity, are there any size comparison photos out?

~Eric

Sedition wars Samaritan (Studio McVey), WoK Union Worker (CMON), 40k Bart the one armed Orc (GW), Studio McVey's LE Kara Black



Standing pic



Standing pic with Wrath of King Blood Child (far right)




As a note, with the material CMON uses there is considerable shrinkage in miniatures that are bulky/large compared to small, slim miniatures which don't really show any shrinkage at (Sedition Wars Akosha, Kara BlaclBarker Zosa)

Quasimodo Metal vs "restic" plastic (Sedition wars)



metal vs plastic Brimstone



I have a few more WoK minis in one of my bins, if I find them, I post them as well.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I guess it's the same as a bunch of Cyper and Soda Pop folk making up Ninja Division for Robotech tactics

It helps keep projects separate for accounting reasons, and if anything goes wrong financially (gods forbid) with one company then you don't risk loosing your other IPs and cashflow

?? What ??
Are you suggesting that CMONs 5 house team are from Ninja division/Soda Pop and Cypher Studios?

 Azazelx wrote:

Speaking for myself:
1) I don't like CMON. Based on a) Their past history. b) Their communication is great when asking you for money. After they have it - their communication is gak.
2) I don't like the material. I've painted a total of NONE Sedition Wars or DreadBall figures made out of this particular plastic to date. I've got no strong urge to start anytime soon. Spiralingcadaver's comments on the material sum it up well.
3) The designs of these figures don't do much for me. The Not-Devourer/Wolfen look fine, but I've got a ton of unpainted Wolfen already, so the one faction that's okay is a non-event for me.

These guys are Busy beavers and might not have all the answers/time to answer 10000s e-mails… did Hulk Hogan personally write you back about eating your vitamins or why he lost to Rowdy Piper? It’s a small company. I give them my money and I wait for my product… If its late it’s late that’s life and business. what do you need to ask them? I’m curious? People expect these guys to be at the beck and call? I don’t get that. This sort of behavior isn’t expected from other companies why from them (or any other KS company)
I can’t speak on the material.
I like the overall look of the game as a whole… if a certain model is meh then whatever. That’s a given in war-games.
@ Piston Honda Thanks man. Resnic isn’t that bad, the pig guys are pretty big.

 plastictrees wrote:

Between the WoK models and other ranges? The original resins have been out for a bit so I'm sure there's something floating about, nothing on the KS page though afaik.
The videos give you a good sense of internal scale. Liking this more and more for some reason, the factions feel much more coherent to me now.

I agree. I’d want to support this and hope they might support an in-house game like this for themselves. It could grow legs with a big enough audience.

Thank you for those - much appreciated!

 Alpharius wrote:
I think cincydooley is at GEN CON.

If someone spots him, let us know - otherwise, I'm worried about him!

I think you're right! That explains it

Hulk Hogan was a terrible wrestler.

that is all.

Just to be totally clear Piston Honda, the WoK minis you posted are the available resins right?

 5deadly wrote:


These guys are Busy beavers and might not have all the answers/time to answer 10000s e-mails… did Hulk Hogan personally write you back about eating your vitamins or why he lost to Rowdy Piper? It’s a small company. I give them my money and I wait for my product… If its late it’s late that’s life and business. what do you need to ask them? I’m curious? People expect these guys to be at the beck and call? I don’t get that. This sort of behavior isn’t expected from other companies why from them (or any other KS company)
I can’t speak on the material.
I like the overall look of the game as a whole… if a certain model is meh then whatever. That’s a given in war-games.

CMON is really that bad in terms of communication, even before kickstarter.

took nearly 6 weeks to get a refund from CMON on a several hundred dollar order that they never sent, and only refunded me after a paypal claim was issued. Multiple emails sent to them and not a single reply. This was before any kickstarter.

this happened again sometime after their second kickstarter.

from the outside looking in CMON seems to be cheap on hiring any help. They have seemed to changed their tune after a mob with pitch forks formed due to complaints regarding Sedition Wars.

I'm not to sure about their shady past many people have talked about. Has something to do with a company called new wave?


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 plastictrees wrote:
Just to be totally clear Piston Honda, the WoK minis you posted are the available resins right?

that would be correct. they are resin, which I would not recommend for gaming. In particular, the squid people.

snap snap snap snap.


actually made me miss metal.

resin is a great artistic medium. IMHO.

Same company, different name, same antagonist. CMON is supposedly New Wave phoenix-ed.

Still, I regularly buy from their webstore, and haven't been screwed over. Yet.

They've been around for a solid decade now haven't they? If they are shady they are playing a very long con.

gohkm wrote:
...CMON is supposedly New Wave phoenix-ed.

Holy hell! Really? Hmm, if that is true then... wow.

They owe me a few Warzone minis if that's true.

*further reading*

Ah, I see, all run by David Doust. Hmm, may end up continuing to avoid them now simply because I don't really want to give that guy my money. Man, just hearing about New Wave brings me back a ways.

Oh well, at least he seems to be avoiding trouble this time around.

 5deadly wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

Speaking for myself:
1) I don't like CMON. Based on a) Their past history. b) Their communication is great when asking you for money. After they have it - their communication is gak.
2) I don't like the material. I've painted a total of NONE Sedition Wars or DreadBall figures made out of this particular plastic to date. I've got no strong urge to start anytime soon. Spiralingcadaver's comments on the material sum it up well.
3) The designs of these figures don't do much for me. The Not-Devourer/Wolfen look fine, but I've got a ton of unpainted Wolfen already, so the one faction that's okay is a non-event for me.

These guys are Busy beavers and might not have all the answers/time to answer 10000s e-mails… did Hulk Hogan personally write you back about eating your vitamins or why he lost to Rowdy Piper? It’s a small company. I give them my money and I wait for my product… If its late it’s late that’s life and business. what do you need to ask them? I’m curious? People expect these guys to be at the beck and call? I don’t get that. This sort of behavior isn’t expected from other companies why from them (or any other KS company)
I can’t speak on the material.
I like the overall look of the game as a whole… if a certain model is meh then whatever. That’s a given in war-games.

Wow, you're clearly either a massive aggro white knight fanboi, or exceptionally obtuse. Or both. There's no need for the childish hyperbole here if you want to discuss things like a grown-up. I think you mean Rowdy Roddy Piper, too, hotshot.

While I haven't actually emailed them, yeah, I damn well expect a timely reply to any emails to them considering the $700+ I dropped on Sedition Wars. I don't give a damn how small they are. And, by the way I do expect a reply if I email a query to any company that I've sent money to. It hasn't been a problem for companies like Mantic, or Dreamforge, or Red Box, or any of the other companies I've contacted from the 30-odd KS I've backed to reply to simple, polite queries on various topics.

But here I'm actually talking about the lack of communication to their KS backers for months. As in outstanding communication and updates while they're standing there with their hand out, asking for money, and then pretty much disappearing once they have it in hand. I'm not just blaming CMON for Sedition Wars either. McVey have done their dash with me as well.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 plastictrees wrote:
They've been around for a solid decade now haven't they? If they are shady they are playing a very long con.

I don't think they're deliberately running a con or anything like that. I'm sure they'll be totally legit, right up until/if something bad happens in their business. At which point they've already demonstrated their quality and the options they'll take.

Just Like Maelstrom/Mierce.

Caveat Emptor.

This might be of interest if it wasn't for the "12 guys, 3 sculpts" thing. Many of those figures are models wouldn't mind owning 1 of but have little interest in 4 of. The price is good though, so perhaps I could trade them off. Also, it kind of feels like random sculpts shoe horned into one game together - the fluff and the figures don't go well together. Fat naked women with swords, shields and masks is kind of interesting and original. In a sketchy way. But I'm supposed to think they're part of some co-ordinated war machine that stockpiles war material? Huh?

kestral wrote:
This might be of interest if it wasn't for the "12 guys, 3 sculpts" thing. Many of those figures are models wouldn't mind owning 1 of but have little interest in 4 of. The price is good though, so perhaps I could trade them off. Also, it kind of feels like random sculpts shoe horned into one game together - the fluff and the figures don't go well together. Fat naked women with swords, shields and masks is kind of interesting and original. In a sketchy way. But I'm supposed to think they're part of some co-ordinated war machine that stockpiles war material? Huh?

Pardon my ignorance, but is that not the case with mass battle games? Warhammer Fantasy and Kings of War, having a limited number of sculpts/poses for a unit?

the game says that it can play with very few models, but they seem to really market towards larger scale games.

Didn't they also say they were going to end up having multiple sculpts for infantry in the stretch goals?

So someone spill the beans on this New Wave deal or whatever CMON used to be.

My interactions with CMON have always been good, but it's always interesting to learn lessons about what's gone on before.

Some of the models look neat, but not enough to invest in the whole faction. And the "furry" models are a definite turn off.

I'll definitely keep an eye out if they add new models/warbands as stretch goals.

 Thatguyoverthere wrote:
Some of the models look neat, but not enough to invest in the whole faction. And the "furry" models are a definite turn off.

you mean the wolf with tits?


yeah, that one was odd.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Didn't they also say they were going to end up having multiple sculpts for infantry in the stretch goals?

So someone spill the beans on this New Wave deal or whatever CMON used to be.

My interactions with CMON have always been good, but it's always interesting to learn lessons about what's gone on before.

There was a spiel of this on the Mierce thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/360/481333.page#5196759.
Look for a post by IK-Painter, close to the bottom of page.

My interactions with CMON have also always been good. But I've been fleeced by New Wave before, too.

Thanks for the info Gohkm.

I'll try not clutter up this topic with a bunch of mud slinging (even though reading through those posts they certainly deserved it) and drudging up past problems.

Happy to hear that we'll be able to get add on a la cartes for various figures- I just want a few Ashmen swordsmen, but not the whole box... but being a CMON kickstarter who knows how much junk will be in the box by the time this is done.

gohkm wrote:
There was a spiel of this on the Mierce thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/360/481333.page#5196759.
Look for a post by IK-Painter, close to the bottom of page.

Wow, I had no idea, thanks for the info/link

I haven’t had the same experience with them as some have. My experience with CMON has been good.
Why is it if one speaks the positive of a company it’s “Fanboy” or some form of “you’re on their team”

It's really simple to me… if you were burned by them of feel cheated don’t buy from them. If I feel cheated by someone I won’t give them money over and over again and if I was to question the ethics of a company (newwave to CMON issues and all the tardiness on kickstarters) I most defiantly would not hand them $700 mighty (scoffs) dollars. I bought a couple things from them… All perfectly fine, on time and to the quality I expected.
If someone spent over $700 dollars I would tend to think they might be the biggest fanboy of all, as money talks and where you spend your money tells the tale of your taste and preference.

It’s ok to like CMON products. Don’t be shy.

Generally why people feel the need to be kept “in the Loop” is beyond me. If something becomes a “real” problem I handle it.Extremely late to ship. I get a refund or never do business with them again. Very Simple...

As a Man and the controller of my destiny I don't need my hand to be held through any purchase the least of which would be my little hobby toy collectables.

Can you understand that Man?

It just dawned on me...

Where are the ranged units?

There's not a single ranged unit as far as I can see. Or magic users for that matter.

Strange. Hope I'm either overlooking something or they add them in later on down the line.