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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I've been looking at some of the Forge World Necron units- there are plenty that look cool, but I'm concerned the rules for some may be underwhelming. I've looked at the rules for all of them, but am still relatively new to the hobby and can't really discern from rules alone if they're worth it. I've searched the topic, but generally only find inconclusive or outdated answers- my understanding is that some of the rules changed with the release of IA12.

Can anyone here shed some light on which of these units (if any) are worth taking? In particular, I'm interested in:
-Sentry Pylons
-Tomb Stalker
-Night Shroud

Any input would be greatly appreciated! I can post the rules for any of these, if need be.
   
Made in us
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Fort Hood (Tx)

Well the Pylons are OP. I could be wrong, but they can only be taken with Dark Harvest army. IA12.


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Made in ca
Terrifying Wraith





Canada

 kinratha wrote:
Well the Pylons are OP. I could be wrong, but they can only be taken with Dark Harvest army. IA12.


Wrong, Heavy for necron army.. .but the rules are in IA12 and the new IA book.

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




As for the pylons, is there a weapon choice considered to be the best for them?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Orlando

The Cylon Raider, I mean Nightshroud bomber looks pretty cool. When dealing with FW, remember much of it is Rule of Cool over efficiency.

If you dont short hand your list, Im not reading it.
Example: Assault Intercessors- x5 -Thunder hammer and plasma pistol on sgt.
or Assault Terminators 3xTH/SS, 2xLCs
For the love of God, GW, get rid of reroll mechanics. ALL OF THEM! 
   
Made in nl
Loyal Necron Lychguard



Netherlands

It really depends who or what you are playing against.

Tomb Stalkers are always nice They are quite good too.
I prefer the Stalker over the Sentinel.

Pylons are great; I took the Gauss-model because I prefer the way it looks.
At the moment I believe they don't see enough play so I am not sure which weapon would be the best.
Next game I am going to try the Death Ray-version.

The Tesseract Ark is quite powerful too and worth its points.

I do believe the flyer is overcosted, both in points and in money compared to what it does in the game.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Interesting to hear about the Tomb Stalker- I really dig the model so I might pick one up if it truly is worthwhile. Seems like quite a few points (220 after giving it IWND).

I had similar thoughts about the Night Shroud- I think it looks cool but 225 pts is a lot to spend on a flyer while AA is becoming more prevalent.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/16 13:19:56


 
   
Made in us
FOW Player




Frisco, TX

Don't play FW for power. The models are great and that should be enough.

Acanthrites and gauss pylons are broken. So absurdly op that I refuse to use them unless somebody really wants to see them.

The bomber, sentinel and ark are pretty poor, but the models rule. The stalker is ok.

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Made in za
Fixture of Dakka




Temple Prime

I like using a Necron monster mash with Stalkers, Sentinels and Spyders for the lulz sometimes. It's not optimal but hey I have six scythes flying around so why not?

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.



 
   
Made in us
Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot






I'm not a Necron player but my best buddy is and I've faced just about all Necron threats imaginable:

All three choices you listed are expensive (points and $$), so a lot of their usefulness will come from you using them carefully.

-Tomb Stalker: awesome fast threat, meshes great with Wraiths, you can throw your wraiths in an assault to tie a unit down and then the Stalker to finish it off. It's immune fleshbane and poisoned weapons so at T7 it's tough to kill, but not impossible though, mass missile launchers and lascannons will hurt it easily so make sure to hug some cover!

-Sentry Pylons: probably the best AA answer in the game right now, but VERY expensive... You can bring Night Scythes as a dedicated transport for cheaper and they'll do short work of most flyers.

-Night Shroud: powerful weapon, but will require some tricky flying/positioning to make the most of it and still has a chance of getting popped upon arrival... A bit pricy for what it brings I think.

Hope this helps.
   
Made in nl
Loyal Necron Lychguard



Netherlands

 Chumbalaya wrote:
Don't play FW for power. The models are great and that should be enough.

Acanthrites and gauss pylons are broken. So absurdly op that I refuse to use them unless somebody really wants to see them.
The bomber, sentinel and ark are pretty poor, but the models rule. The stalker is ok.

What would you call poor about the Ark?
It's slightly more expensive than a Monolith and exchanges the portal for tons of heavy firepower.
My necron list always struggles with Sv2+ (as do many cron-lists) and it fires three plasma cannons.
The only downside would be that it is so extremely vulnerable to melta.

Are you talking about the Gauss Pylon or the Sentry Pylons btw?
Because even the usual "Zomg, everything Necron is OP!"-player thought it was a balanced model after I played it against them.

I agree with that first statement, you shouldn't play FW for it's power.
Contrary to popular believe, most units sold by them are quite 'meeh' and a bit heavy on the points.
Forgeworld should be seen as a way to make different lists and to add more variation to the game.
Basically: Treat Forgeworld as a supplement.
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer




 Chumbalaya wrote:
Don't play FW for power. The models are great and that should be enough.

Acanthrites and gauss pylons are broken. So absurdly op that I refuse to use them unless somebody really wants to see them.

The bomber, sentinel and ark are pretty poor, but the models rule. The stalker is ok.


I agree with everything here except for the Gauss Pylons and the Stalker. Stalkers I've never had survive particularly long - they may be T7 but with only 4 wounds, they don't tend to get anywhere near combat unless they outflank which is unreliable and easy to counter. Gauss Pylons I haven't used (incidently, me and Forge World will be having choice words about an order of those - I paid for 3+another normal pylon with the new Pylon Network bundle and they've sent 2 because that's what the offer is now - despite the fact I wouldn't have gone for the bundle if I'd been notified they'd changed it, especially AFTER I paid) but I can't see much that makes me believe 2 longer ranged icarus lascannons on a tough platform is worth both a heavy support slot and 135 points. They seem like a decent choice, sure, but Annihilation Barges do better against all light armour, including flyers. Am I missing something huge? Maybe TLing them with Triarch Stalkers or something?
   
Made in us
Sneaky Lictor





Louisville, KY

Pylons are brutal. The gauss exterminator is 120" s9ap2 heavy 2 with skyfire and intercept. Doesn't need to be manned and is fairly resilient.

I'm a fan of the bomber myself. Av12 5 s10ap1 bombs that blind and pin. Not even intercept can stop the first few bombs. It is a bit pricey.. but it is always huge, and cool.

Never seen the ark in action.

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Made in nl
Loyal Necron Lychguard



Netherlands

Ooh crap, I didn't see they changed that over.
I was thinking about getting one too, but screw that.
Offtopic: Do you have the order confirmation? Because I don't think it's legal to change the product after you paid for it.

Anyway, Heavy 2 with S9AP2 and Skyfire/Interceptor is very nice.
The downside is that: It's still 135 points with three wounds and I don't think Necrons really need that weapon.
(Gauss on S9 still makes me laugh, completely useless and quite fluffy)
Heat Cannon is very awesome, but 175 is really expensive!
So my favourite is probably going to be the Death Ray.
It has good range, it kills vehicles and Sv2+ and it tosses out a lot of wounds.
To be honest: The only reason I ordered one of these is because the model looks awesome.

Tomb Stalkers have a big problem: Power Fists.
Almost every army has some hidden weapon in their squads that really ruins its day and there is nothing you can do against it.
So you will probably always end up throwing this unit away.
Considering the costs of these things, something like WS5 or 6 should have been included.
Or at least an invulnerable save or stealth/shrouded.
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer




Kangodo wrote:
Ooh crap, I didn't see they changed that over.
I was thinking about getting one too, but screw that.
Offtopic: Do you have the order confirmation? Because I don't think it's legal to change the product after you paid for it.

Anyway, Heavy 2 with S9AP2 and Skyfire/Interceptor is very nice.
The downside is that: It's still 135 points with three wounds and I don't think Necrons really need that weapon.
(Gauss on S9 still makes me laugh, completely useless and quite fluffy)
Heat Cannon is very awesome, but 175 is really expensive!
So my favourite is probably going to be the Death Ray.
It has good range, it kills vehicles and Sv2+ and it tosses out a lot of wounds.
To be honest: The only reason I ordered one of these is because the model looks awesome.

Tomb Stalkers have a big problem: Power Fists.
Almost every army has some hidden weapon in their squads that really ruins its day and there is nothing you can do against it.
So you will probably always end up throwing this unit away.
Considering the costs of these things, something like WS5 or 6 should have been included.
Or at least an invulnerable save or stealth/shrouded.


It's not legal, it falls under both fraud and false advertising I believe. I've emailed them basically asking for either a full refund or the remaining part of the order because frankly at £20 saving on the current bundle, I lose that on shipping anyway and I could have just gotten someone to get me the stuff from Warhammer World anyway but at a later date. It was a treat for myself after having a terrible day, so I was pretty disappointed to be let down, especially as FW have been very good to me before. I'll let you know how it goes, I suspect they'll probably sort it out, their customer service is fairly exceptional normally.

I do like the gauss thing too, and it fits with the heavy gauss cannon also getting it. I guess it might be useful once in a blue moon, if something somehow reduces your weapon's strength? Still, it's a nice touch. Personally, I don't rate the heat ray pylon at all. I've never used it but it's 15 points more than the death ray and isn't 100% accurate. The melta thing isn't hugely useful either. The only pylon I've used is the death ray one and my goodness if you get first turn (especially seizing), stuff dies. Deep striking it is actually really, really effective - nothing in the game enjoys 2 automatic S10 AP1 hits happening nearly unstoppably. The model's quite wide though, so you need to decide on set up and the upgrade isn't cheap but with a 24" range, it's not hard to make it work. It does look very good next to a normal Pylon though being the closest design, so there's that.

I agree on Tomb Stalkers. Hell, even if they'd just been the same as before but in elites, they'd be fine. 5 wounds would be fantastic and make it fairly viable IMO. As it is, you have an MC with basically no shooting, stuck moving 6"+fleet run per turn and it's not very durable. These new rules seem like they want to force you to outflank it but even then that's so easy to stop. If the model wasn't so cool, I wouldn't even bother trying to make it work but as it is, it's probably my 2nd favourite model FW makes. I can't say it makes a huge amount of sense to me that a giant centipede made of blades is only as likely to strike as a marine but there we go. Unless you're VS single wound T4 models or T3 multi wound, you may as well smash due to rampage.
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Just by way of wondering, what exactly does the Pylon Network do?
(... well, maybe not "exactly". Posting the "exact" rules would summon the GW/FW lawyers. A rough summary would be better, I think)
Anyway, have been considering picking up the IA:Apoc book, but not sure if it's worth it, seeing as how the only army I would use it for would be 'Crons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/17 01:01:36


 
   
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Terrifying Wraith





Canada

Tomb Stalker vs Sentinel, what the big difference between the two and when to use them. For me, the sentinel is only good for.... i really dont know....

 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




Not certain about the Sentinel, myself. Loses 2 attacks for a short ranged (12'' IIRC) blast version of the transdimensional beamer (Str test or removed as a casualty). Doesn't seem worthwhile, although I guess it does auto-pen vehicles?
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer




The Pylon network gives6+ cover to all pylons in the network and +1 cover save for each pylon within 12" up to a maximum of 3+. So, if you had 3 sentry pylons within 12" and then a Pylon 18" away, the Pylon would have a 6+ cover save and the sentries would have a 4+. It's okay I guess, it's a boon vs AP2/3 shots so that's cool. That said, being within 12" of the Pylon grants a 5++ anyway, so unless you have more than 1 sentry pylon, it's not in any way useful. That said, it's 1+ Pylon, 0-5 sentry pylons so if you had 3 Pylons from, say, the old Pylon network, they could all get 4+ cover constantly. Very good when you consider how strong Pylons are anyway, pretty much makes firing non Str D at them a pointless exercise (even melta hunters will struggle).

For Stalker VS Sentinel, the choice is simple. The sentinel loses 2 attacks but gains a very short ranged blast which is extremely dangerous even if it rarely triggers (and can hilariously scatter back onto yourself). It's also cheaper than the Stalker. Why is this choice obvious? Well, the Stalker occupies an otherwise poor part of the codex - the Elites section. The thing most people miss about the Sentinel is it ISN'T Fast Attack unless you're using a Dark Harvest list - it's Heavy Support. In no way is it good enough to replace an Annihilation Barge, a Doom Scythe, Sentry Pylons, etc. In fact, it competes with Spyders who are, IMO, vastly better for the price you pay. It sounds like, from the written fluff on them in IA12, the Stalkers were originally given some heat cannon variant (I'd guess 12" S10 AP2 melta blast) but it was either too strong or played badly so they were given an Exile Ray blast instead.

If you want to use the FW Necron stuff, get IA12 instead. It's more interesting, much larger, has a ton of backstory and all the units. This new book only has the Ark (copy and pasted), the Sentry Pylon (copy and pasted), the normal Pylon (2SP changed into 6HP, otherwise identical to Aeronautica and IA12) and the Tomb Citadel stuff (the 2 sections part I can't see anyone using, the single one has only had one change from IA12 which is that the resurrection boost of rerolling 1's cannot be stopped by destroying the power crucible it's just passively constant). You miss out on the Stalker, Sentinel, Acanthrites, Night Shroud Bomber and Dark Harvest list. It is more expensive though, so if you won't use any of those units then go for the Apoc book instead. If you already own IA12, I cannot recommend IA:Apoc unless you're desperate to use the ROB board stuff or have other armies (particularly Eldar or Chaos). Space Marine players will not like the nerfs they got either, especially with the Contemptor Mortis now only being BS4. Would have been nice to see Sabres brought back into line but the day FW nerfs IG stuff is the day hell freezes over.
   
Made in nl
Loyal Necron Lychguard



Netherlands

You lose two attacks (or one smash) but you gain the exile-blast that auto-pens vehicles.
The thing most people miss about the Sentinel is it ISN'T Fast Attack unless you're using a Dark Harvest list - it's Heavy Support

Ooh God, I never noticed that =/ That makes it quite bad.
It also makes IA12 a bit ridiculous: Tesseract Ark, Tomb Sentinel, Bomber and Pylons all at Heavy Support for codex-armies? Really?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/17 10:59:37


 
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Kangodo wrote:
It also makes IA12 a bit ridiculous: Tesseract Ark, Tomb Sentinel, Bomber and Pylons all at Heavy Support for codex-armies? Really?
they're all probably meant for Apocalypse play, anyway.

The thing the REALLY annoys me is the fact that we STILL lack a titan, despite the fluff being present.
(I'd gladly take a Canoptek version of that thing from Medusa V, even if it meant I couldn't take anything but Flayed Ones as support).

 
   
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Netherlands

I am glad that we don't have a Titan.
My "wish-list" is already in the 500 dollar-region, I don't want to double that!
   
Made in za
Fixture of Dakka




Temple Prime

 skoffs wrote:
Kangodo wrote:
It also makes IA12 a bit ridiculous: Tesseract Ark, Tomb Sentinel, Bomber and Pylons all at Heavy Support for codex-armies? Really?
they're all probably meant for Apocalypse play, anyway.

The thing the REALLY annoys me is the fact that we STILL lack a titan, despite the fluff being present.
(I'd gladly take a Canoptek version of that thing from Medusa V, even if it meant I couldn't take anything but Flayed Ones as support).


Feel like crying?

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.



 
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





I have wept enough for what could have been.
Just a tinge of pain in my heart receptacle, now.

Though I find it strange that there only exists this single piece of fan art of the Medusa V Stalker.
As great as it is (and it is fantastic), someone really needs to do an update of it. Perhaps an HD rendition would give FW the incentive required to get off their asses and start work on this beautiful mother fu-- flayer.

 
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 skoffs wrote:
Kangodo wrote:
It also makes IA12 a bit ridiculous: Tesseract Ark, Tomb Sentinel, Bomber and Pylons all at Heavy Support for codex-armies? Really?
they're all probably meant for Apocalypse play, anyway.

The thing the REALLY annoys me is the fact that we STILL lack a titan, despite the fluff being present.
(I'd gladly take a Canoptek version of that thing from Medusa V, even if it meant I couldn't take anything but Flayed Ones as support).


A titan wouldn't make much sense to begin with, though. Sure, GW doesn't even try writing good fluff anymore, but how would the Necrons hide a giant Titan in a tomb world?

   
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Proud Triarch Praetorian





 Sigvatr wrote:
how would the Necrons hide a giant Titan in a tomb world?
... uhh, by hiding it IN the Tomb World.
duh.

(at least, that's where they his it in the book)

 
   
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Loyal Necron Lychguard



Netherlands

The same way a Tomb Citadel and Tomb Stalker are 'hidden' in the Tomb Worlds?
A lot of Tomb Worlds are also unknown so they could just stand on the surface of that world to defend the sleeping Necrontyr.
   
Made in za
Fixture of Dakka




Temple Prime

 Sigvatr wrote:
 skoffs wrote:
Kangodo wrote:
It also makes IA12 a bit ridiculous: Tesseract Ark, Tomb Sentinel, Bomber and Pylons all at Heavy Support for codex-armies? Really?
they're all probably meant for Apocalypse play, anyway.

The thing the REALLY annoys me is the fact that we STILL lack a titan, despite the fluff being present.
(I'd gladly take a Canoptek version of that thing from Medusa V, even if it meant I couldn't take anything but Flayed Ones as support).


A titan wouldn't make much sense to begin with, though. Sure, GW doesn't even try writing good fluff anymore, but how would the Necrons hide a giant Titan in a tomb world?

I'm not sure if you understand just how much space you can get by hollowing out a significant proportion of a planet, or C'tan forbid, the entire world.

Hiding a sixteen to a hundred meter tall death mecha is trivial.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.



 
   
Made in nl
Loyal Necron Lychguard



Netherlands

Wouldn't it be extremely awesome if it turns out that Terra is a Tomb world? :O
   
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Proud Triarch Praetorian





Agh, come on, man!
Spoilers!

 
   
 
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