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So I've been collecting IG for around a year, and I've played dozens of games during that time. I've read the IG lists that do well, but I've really only played what my models allow for. I've played mostly Russ tanks and lots of infantry on foot. In smaller point games I was able to hold my own, given that I could usually overwhelm my opponent with the model count, but as games go beyond 1250, I lose my footing. I'm considering boosting my number of vehicles by 5-6 new models, probably basilisks and chimeras. If I do this, I should see less dead foot guard, and more dead enemies.

My question is, are we pretty much bound to a mechanized gun line, if we want to win? The only alternative to a "leafblower" type list, is a list with Devildog / Hellhound squadrons, which brings the fight to the enemy. I tried a squad of 3 vs tau and they never got used, blown up turn 1. That doesn't mean they don't work, but it doesn't feel strong to me, it feels risky, and an odd choice vs MEQ.

Walling up chimeras, and throwing in all the artillery you can get on the table seems like the way to go. I'd be the first person to admit, this is the most BORING and frustrating way to play the game. In which case, should I look at allies and/or starting an army that actually moves?

Has anyone been able to get up field with a good allied detachment? Does any combination feel particularly aggressive? I have a SoB allied detachment now. Maybe I can forgo getting a bunch of new Guard vehicles if I find a really bad-ass ally that can show up and smash things, while the guard defends the backfield and supports them with artillery/tanks.

Try the Devildog/Hellhound combo against a different army next time. Tau really are the wrong kind of force to be trying that against!! Half their units are mobile enough to stay out of template range on the offchance they don't just blow it straight to pieces anyway. Luckily IG are the one army that can outshoot Tau and really, I would think it's the only reliable way to beat them (you won't outmanoeuvre them and overwatch will blow you away if you try to charge).

The two are really best against horde armies like Nids or Orks - you may get too close to the odd model that can wreck them like PK Nobz or a flying MC but by and large the lower cost of your vehicles means you can take a few, so they will do enough damage across the board to be worthwhile.

Outside of that specific idea... another one Guard players are currently finding amusing is allying in something that can make an Infantry blob Fearless and preferably with FNP or some kind of invulnerable/cover save that extends to the unit. Azrael seems to be the golden boy here with his 4++ power field, and some other choices will specifically only affect their Codex, but there should be a good few options for Stealth and/or Shrouded. This gives you the opportunity to tarpit and wear down most units in close combat - with Guard, I know!! - but you have to be wary of two things - units that put out enough Attacks to cause a risk (like Ork mobs, Berzerkers or Death Company) and walkers, as being Fearless you can't run away if you can't hurt it.

The guard have one of the most diverse codexes in the game in my opinion, so there really are a bunch of lists you can try, most of which are semi-compatative at least. Here are a few personal favourites:

'ODST-style':
30 stormtroopers, and 4+ carapace vet squads on foot as troops. Few tanks, only fast ones like Hellhound variants, Add air support as required.

This can be a fun one as you can play really agressively with the DS, as they can reroll scatter, and can annihilate part of the enemy army in a turn with a good drop. You then have to focus on holding the midfield and providign fire support with the vets while the ST and hellhounds cause havoc to the enemy lines.

'Over the top, men, and fix bayonets!':
Hordes of infantry, no russes, maximum artillery. Then just charge!

People often don't expect agressive play from guard, especially with 150+ guys, and with all the artillery they can put out a load of firepower. Keep the upgrades cheap and cheerful. mostly flamers and GL. Consider adding straken and priests for more damage when the tide hits.

'The marines are coming!'
Take a few platoons of guardsmen, and your pick of artillery, hounds and russes. Try and get it in an allied FOC, and bring marines (preferable SW) as the main detachment. All in drop pods.

Defend with guard, attack with the marines. Sinple and effective, as the two forces compliment each other amazingly well.

While these may not be able to fight and beat the likes of Triple-tide tau and Cron-air, they are all really enjoyable to play, and far more interesting that the boring gunlines people expect from IG. They are all pretty competative to boot.

I really like that ODST thing, but it seems like it would work poorly against orks, nids. Would work great against Marines, maybe Tau or Eldar.

Though personally I love my Russes so I would still take some.

"Tank beats everything!"

Yeah, the ST-heavy list is not the best against CC armies (but can actually do some real damage to ork/nid hordes with precision DS flamers), but it really is fun. Maybe not something I would take into a really competative game, but it is unusual, quite good and just so much better than the 'stand here and roll dice' gunlines.

You can add russes, of course, I'm just not sure they fit the theme as well as hellhounds and devil dogs, but they can certainly add a lot to the list in terms of long range killing power and differing target types.

 Super Ready wrote:
Outside of that specific idea... another one Guard players are currently finding amusing is allying in something that can make an Infantry blob Fearless and preferably with FNP or some kind of invulnerable/cover save that extends to the unit. Azrael seems to be the golden boy here with his 4++ power field, and some other choices will specifically only affect their Codex, but there should be a good few options for Stealth and/or Shrouded. This gives you the opportunity to tarpit and wear down most units in close combat - with Guard, I know!! - but you have to be wary of two things - units that put out enough Attacks to cause a risk (like Ork mobs, Berzerkers or Death Company) and walkers, as being Fearless you can't run away if you can't hurt it.

Thanks for the advice. A Guard blob can get stealth from the Lord Commissar's camo cloak, so that could be useful, and they are virtually fearless with the Commissar. I've heard of the buffs from other codices, I should check that out. I ran a 50 man blob recently, with Straken following them around. They were armed to the teeth with melta and melta bombs, which kept my enemy from getting close. They never ran, but he still managed to shoot every single model off the table. Indeed, a better save would have helped.

Camo cloaks have been FAQed to just give +1 to cover saves, so they don't confer to the blob. Other options along the same lines can work, though, so the idea is sound.

 Paradigm wrote:
Camo cloaks have been FAQed to just give +1 to cover saves, so they don't confer to the blob. Other options along the same lines can work, though, so the idea is sound.

Good to know. I'll have to look that one up.

edit : Looked it up. It's true, oh well.

Raven Guard are rumoured to be getting stealth in the new SM codex, including on IC, so that might be a good bet.

You can find a way to use most guard units in a fairly competitive way. One of my favorites is mass artillery and mass guards. They can't sit still on objectives because of the artillery, and they can't come to close or you'll FRFSRF the snot out of them.

That being said, I'm loving that ODST build and really want to go buy some kasrkin...

eclipseoto wrote:
You can find a way to use most guard units in a fairly competitive way. One of my favorites is mass artillery and mass guards. They can't sit still on objectives because of the artillery, and they can't come to close or you'll FRFSRF the snot out of them.

That being said, I'm loving that ODST build and really want to go buy some kasrkin...

Yeah, horde+artillery is really good.

Another one, purely for fun, and only at 2k+ or apoc:

6 deathstrikes, and infantry hordes with hellhounds. At least one is likely to go off Turn one, and then more after that. Advance into the barrage, hoping for good deathstrike rolls, and flame, melt and cut down all the confused xenos who won't know what hit them. This list will either table or be tabled by turn 4, I imagine, but would be a blast to play. (Pun intended)

another tactic that most people aren't ready for is using rough riders.

they make an excellent counter attack unit,or outflanking unit.
with 3 st 5 I 5 plus a free I10 horse kick to the face.;

I would say guards codex has some specific builds that are mid competitive like mech guard or foot guard allied with marines but most other lists really arent competitive. Units like rough riders, ogryns and ratlings dont really work in competitive lists as they are very hit or miss. Storm troopers are great as melta suicide units but anything bigger and they start to soak up to many points where a battle tank round might kill them all the turn they drop or a hell drake just makes a bad day for them.

I tend to play higher point games 1500-2k and ive found mech guard to already be much better than foot guard. And if you play mech its usually a bunch of vets in chimeras with either plasma and melta. Backed up by vendettas and artillery. I prefer russes as i love my tanks but in the game artillery is cheaper and is a bit better than russes.

As an ally to foot guard ive used sw's. a rune priest as an hq to either join a squad in a pod or buff a blob and have a 24" psychic defence. I run 2 hunter squads in pods either either plasma or melta and then i have a long fang(devastators) who start on the board and a give them x5 missile to also add fire power to my line but they do take a pod to come in empty and this is so i can have 2 hunter squads come in turn 1 and then have an empty pod come in later. The rest of my guard list is 1 vendetta and 2 lrbt's with a horde of guard behind an aegis line with quad.

Now what im sending from what your saying is that guard seems to be a rather boring army if you want to win. I will say that i have realized this and basically if you play a fluffy list you also have to find an opponent to play a fluffy fun list otherwise you will probably lose. Ive tried playing some horde based lists backed up by some russes and just guard tidal wave accross the board to beat my opponent but that type of play style usually never works. Your either sitting back with a ton of guardsmen and shooting a good distance or your ruahing up in armored boxes trying to run your opponents down

 tankboy145 wrote:
I would say guards codex has some specific builds that are mid competitive like mech guard or foot guard allied with marines but most other lists really arent competitive. Units like rough riders, ogryns and ratlings dont really work in competitive lists as they are very hit or miss. Storm troopers are great as melta suicide units but anything bigger and they start to soak up to many points where a battle tank round might kill them all the turn they drop or a hell drake just makes a bad day for them.

I tend to play higher point games 1500-2k and ive found mech guard to already be much better than foot guard. And if you play mech its usually a bunch of vets in chimeras with either plasma and melta. Backed up by vendettas and artillery. I prefer russes as i love my tanks but in the game artillery is cheaper and is a bit better than russes.

As an ally to foot guard ive used sw's. a rune priest as an hq to either join a squad in a pod or buff a blob and have a 24" psychic defence. I run 2 hunter squads in pods either either plasma or melta and then i have a long fang(devastators) who start on the board and a give them x5 missile to also add fire power to my line but they do take a pod to come in empty and this is so i can have 2 hunter squads come in turn 1 and then have an empty pod come in later. The rest of my guard list is 1 vendetta and 2 lrbt's with a horde of guard behind an aegis line with quad.

Now what im sending from what your saying is that guard seems to be a rather boring army if you want to win. I will say that i have realized this and basically if you play a fluffy list you also have to find an opponent to play a fluffy fun list otherwise you will probably lose. Ive tried playing some horde based lists backed up by some russes and just guard tidal wave accross the board to beat my opponent but that type of play style usually never works. Your either sitting back with a ton of guardsmen and shooting a good distance or your ruahing up in armored boxes trying to run your opponents down

Hey, I really appreciate this response, this is exactly what I'm experiencing with my Guard lists. The meta that I play in is pretty unforgiving. It's great for competition, but there's no room for a hobby list when you're playing only the most competitive armies. Trying to play aggressive IG almost never works. The closer I get to a boring mech gunline, the better I do, which is enlightening.

Your SW idea sounds like a lot of fun. Also, I like that you use an aegis line with a layer of guard to run the quad, and shield the artillery from assault. I really don't mind having a boring list, as long as I can get a few wins, and then change it up. But I can't keep playing "attack guard" it's not working with mech, and it's not working with a boot horde.

Best response! Thanks a lot, I'll give this some thought.

edit - What you said about the stromtroopers is dead on, they're either suicide, or a positively gourmet price tag for very little damage output. I lost a game of Purge because of my 2x 5-man ST melta squads. They did their job well, but gave up 2 points, what a waste.

And i loved my sw allies because its fluffy, you have a guard force defending from an opposing forces attack and the sw's attack the vital parts of the enemy like they do in fluff and hopefully you win lol.

Personally for me i love mech guard and using russes with it but the fun behind it is tht im a tanker an i love my Abrams battle tank so now i can play a model game and use tanks as well, its awesome! But if your playing to win against a lot of other competitive players its hard to have fun.

In my meta we have a de player and a new tau player who play the competitive lists to win and its annoying playing them as its no fun. I m not saying play a fluffy list and dont try to lose but play a fluffly list and try to wi and having a chance of winning makes it more fun and you cant get tht when you play a win at all cost player.

I prefer a combined arms approach, which strangely enough incorporates the most powerful units in the codex...

Manticores for anti-horde, Vendettas for anti-tank, an Executioner for killing Marines, a couple Chimeras with Plasma Vets, a CCS with melta guns or plasma guns, and a small naked blob behind an ADL to man a quad gun and take a T2 charge if you run up against aggressive assault lists.

It allows you to play somewhat aggressively against gunlines (drive up Chimeras and flame units behind an ADL, blast them to pieces with Manticores, etc.), and reach far objectives since you can put infantry squads or the PCS in the Vendettas. Plasma Russ is there to shield your other units in case your opponent has Long Fangs or lots of S7 shooting, and the Chimeras are mostly there for their search lights.

Only problem with a combined arms army even though fluffy and some what fun is that its usually not competitive. You give your opponent to many options for his different units to shoot at. Like small arms fire goes at the platoon infantry, heaviest and strongest weapons including melta or assault units goes at the russ and medium strength weapons gets thrown at your chimeras. Where as if you ran a whole mech army with russes and chimeras with vendettas his small arms fire is now waste as your whole army is mechanized and all of his anti tank weapons are going to be over whelmed as your whole army is tanks and theres to many for him to kill them all. Where as in your combine arms list you couldn't run enough chimeras to get your troops across the board to do what they should.

The best combined arms ive seen and that is actually competitive is artillery with platoons bubble weapon and sitting behind a line with a quad gun. And vets with meltas,plasma or flamers in them to grab late game objectives. This is primarily artillery with the platoons but in this list you should have 3 vendettas all with vets in them to grab late game objectives.

Most combined arms, although fluffy, are not competitive.

 tankboy145 wrote:
Only problem with a combined arms army even though fluffy and some what fun is that its usually not competitive. You give your opponent to many options for his different units to shoot at. Like small arms fire goes at the platoon infantry, heaviest and strongest weapons including melta or assault units goes at the russ and medium strength weapons gets thrown at your chimeras. Where as if you ran a whole mech army with russes and chimeras with vendettas his small arms fire is now waste as your whole army is mechanized and all of his anti tank weapons are going to be over whelmed as your whole army is tanks and theres to many for him to kill them all. Where as in your combine arms list you couldn't run enough chimeras to get your troops across the board to do what they should.

The best combined arms ive seen and that is actually competitive is artillery with platoons bubble weapon and sitting behind a line with a quad gun. And vets with meltas,plasma or flamers in them to grab late game objectives. This is primarily artillery with the platoons but in this list you should have 3 vendettas all with vets in them to grab late game objectives.

Most combined arms, although fluffy, are not competitive.

I took 1st at a tournament last month using my "non-competitive" combined arms list. Opponents included a CSM list with Heldrakes, a GK list, and a Farsight bomb Tau list. Of 15 opponents, I was one of two players who went 3-1 the entire tournament. I don't run it because it's fluffy. I run it because it's good.


100% Mech Guard doesn't work anymore. Anybody who can guarantee a T2 assault (CSM spawn lists, Daemons, some Eldar builds, etc.) is going to paste you. Farsight bomb is also going to paste you, as they'll be opening 3-4 Chimeras per turn. You absolutely need cheap meat shields out in front to take hits. The only difference between a "combined arms" IG army and 100% Mech IG is the presence of a platoon of meat shields. Other than that, I'm still running the best units in the codex - Plasma Vets, Vendettas, Manticores, and an Executioner.

What was this a grand tourny and how many points, what was your exact list as i find it hard to believe as ive run very similar lists but ive found mech guard to be far better Than most other guard lists.

Because even though other units get a turn 2 assault. They kill what 1 or 2 chimeras then the rest of the chimeras flame them with the heavy flamers while the troops light them up. Same thing with farsight, you kill 3-4 chimeras thats only 175pts and now all those vets outside the chimeras will just light em up, and thats if the faraight bomb hits i just had a game last week against the new enclave book a c i fought a farsight bomb that managed to blow up 1 chimera wreck another and stunned one, only to get destroyed by the 2 squads from the wrecked chimeras.

I can see artillery and platoons with vendettas and vets but once you start mixing in chimeras and russes then i start to fail in seeing how well it would do.

I've run dura-vets, SitNW conscripts, Russ spam, and NASGUARD. Among others.

There are certainly ways to make guard work in 6th edition other than a gunline. That said, we're in a gunline edition, so gunlining is going to be the easiest way to win games with guard. Of course, if you're not interested in playing the game on easy mode, then your options are only limited by your creativity.

 tankboy145 wrote:
What was this a grand tourny and how many points, what was your exact list as i find it hard to believe as ive run very similar lists but ive found mech guard to be far better Than most other guard lists.

Because even though other units get a turn 2 assault. They kill what 1 or 2 chimeras then the rest of the chimeras flame them with the heavy flamers while the troops light them up. Same thing with farsight, you kill 3-4 chimeras thats only 175pts and now all those vets outside the chimeras will just light em up, and thats if the faraight bomb hits i just had a game last week against the new enclave book a c i fought a farsight bomb that managed to blow up 1 chimera wreck another and stunned one, only to get destroyed by the 2 squads from the wrecked chimeras.

I can see artillery and platoons with vendettas and vets but once you start mixing in chimeras and russes then i start to fail in seeing how well it would do.

It was a 1500 pt local tournament. I never claimed it was a GT, but it was a competitive event with some pretty nasty armies in it. I ran, like I said, a melta CCS in Chimera, naked Infantry platoon, 2 squads of Plasma Vets in Chimeras, 2 Vendettas, 2 Manticores, ADL, and an Executioner with bolter sponsons.


That naked blob was worth its weight in gold. It stopped a T2 Spawn charge, a Paladin charge, a charge from a stealthed DE Beast Pack, and bought me buffer room to keep the Farsight bomb out of 2d6 range. That's pretty important. All for 130 points? I'll take it...can't even buy a squad of Plasma Vets and a transport for that price. You could argue that it received all of my opponent's anti-infantry fire. If my opponents were shooting at my blob, I was ecstatic! Go to ground for that juicy 2+ cover save behind the ADL, and it's pretty much ineffective. The thing about 6th edition that invalidates your point about providing multiple targets to your opponent is that, since glances can destroy vehicles easily, most anti-Infantry fire and hand-to-hand attacks can actually glance and destroy your Chimeras. You protect them with a blob to keep opponents out of 6" Melta range and out of assault range until YOU are ready to move out. Having the platoon also gives you a PCS that can hang out in a Vendetta and drop onto an objective late game, score linebreaker, etc.


Your opponent was running a Farsight bomb, and you managed to kill it using two squads? That's interesting, because if your opponent knows what he's doing it's ~6-7 suits, 10 drones, and they ALL have 2+ cover saves. I don't see how you pulled that off. They have more wounds than you have shots, and a 2+ cover save to boot. In addition, Vets are fairly easy to pin, and very vulnerable to exploding vehicles.

Pure Mech IG plays right into the hands of the nasty T2 assault armies - they can target multiple vehicles and pop them, half the time neutralizing the squad inside. ...have fun getting multi-assaulted by 20 Khorne Hounds on T2. You need a buffer against things like that. These threats necessitate a platoon in 6th edition competitive Mech IG.

FWIW the Plasma Russ was actually a fantastic decoy in my final game. Short story, I used BLOS terrain to ensure that the bomb could target either a single Manticore, or the Russ. Opponent chose the Russ, and IMO chose poorly, because it was the Manticores that annihilated 30 Fire Warriors and 10 Pathfinders behind their ADL.

.have fun getting multi-assaulted by 20 Khorne Hounds on T2. You need a buffer against things like that.

?

The khorne dogs start 12"-18" away, outside of their charge. I get my meltavets into range, and unleash BS4 melta. Then the next turn, the khorne dogs charge the transport, and eat melta overwatch. Assuming they kill the transport, I then unload with more BS4 melta, and then the dogs charge the transports for more overwatch melta. And they don't have grenades so the, let's say 5 guys and a sergeant, get to attack before the dogs do. Throw in a single round of 2x heavy bolter fire for good measure, and some lasgun shots from the back hatch as well.

Before the khorne dogs have a chance to sink their teeth into a single guardsmen, the vet squad has already put down 4 or 5 of the hounds. For a single 155 point unit. That's not specifically dedicated to killing them.

And that's before you consider all the other stuff you have in your army that can ID them. Blood puppies are awful against mech lists.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:
What was this a grand tourny and how many points, what was your exact list as i find it hard to believe as ive run very similar lists but ive found mech guard to be far better Than most other guard lists.

Because even though other units get a turn 2 assault. They kill what 1 or 2 chimeras then the rest of the chimeras flame them with the heavy flamers while the troops light them up. Same thing with farsight, you kill 3-4 chimeras thats only 175pts and now all those vets outside the chimeras will just light em up, and thats if the faraight bomb hits i just had a game last week against the new enclave book a c i fought a farsight bomb that managed to blow up 1 chimera wreck another and stunned one, only to get destroyed by the 2 squads from the wrecked chimeras.

I can see artillery and platoons with vendettas and vets but once you start mixing in chimeras and russes then i start to fail in seeing how well it would do.

It was a 1500 pt local tournament. I never claimed it was a GT, but it was a competitive event with some pretty nasty armies in it. I ran, like I said, a melta CCS in Chimera, naked Infantry platoon, 2 squads of Plasma Vets in Chimeras, 2 Vendettas, 2 Manticores, ADL, and an Executioner with bolter sponsons.


That naked blob was worth its weight in gold. It stopped a T2 Spawn charge, a Paladin charge, a charge from a stealthed DE Beast Pack, and bought me buffer room to keep the Farsight bomb out of 2d6 range. That's pretty important. All for 130 points? I'll take it...can't even buy a squad of Plasma Vets and a transport for that price. You could argue that it received all of my opponent's anti-infantry fire. If my opponents were shooting at my blob, I was ecstatic! Go to ground for that juicy 2+ cover save behind the ADL, and it's pretty much ineffective. The thing about 6th edition that invalidates your point about providing multiple targets to your opponent is that, since glances can destroy vehicles easily, most anti-Infantry fire and hand-to-hand attacks can actually glance and destroy your Chimeras. You protect them with a blob to keep opponents out of 6" Melta range and out of assault range until YOU are ready to move out. Having the platoon also gives you a PCS that can hang out in a Vendetta and drop onto an objective late game, score linebreaker, etc.


Your opponent was running a Farsight bomb, and you managed to kill it using two squads? That's interesting, because if your opponent knows what he's doing it's ~6-7 suits, 10 drones, and they ALL have 2+ cover saves. I don't see how you pulled that off. They have more wounds than you have shots, and a 2+ cover save to boot. In addition, Vets are fairly easy to pin, and very vulnerable to exploding vehicles.

Pure Mech IG plays right into the hands of the nasty T2 assault armies - they can target multiple vehicles and pop them, half the time neutralizing the squad inside. ...have fun getting multi-assaulted by 20 Khorne Hounds on T2. You need a buffer against things like that. These threats necessitate a platoon in 6th edition competitive Mech IG.

FWIW the Plasma Russ was actually a fantastic decoy in my final game. Short story, I used BLOS terrain to ensure that the bomb could target either a single Manticore, or the Russ. Opponent chose the Russ, and IMO chose poorly, because it was the Manticores that annihilated 30 Fire Warriors and 10 Pathfinders behind their ADL.

Theoretically speaking there would be a lot more than 2 possibly grounded vet squads firing into the bomb. Because if your opponent does a bomb correctly thats what super expensive and leaving little for him to start on the board and you hope that it comes in as soon as possible

Back on topic, you mentioned SoB's I'm sure you've considered Uriah with your guard blob? I've had a lot of fun with that, as behind the line you get cover and FnP and on the offence you get 100+ rerollable attacks. Throw in some melta bombs and you can scare MC's and walkers.
I myself have been thinking about what an offensive mech guard list could look like. Hellhounds could work if backed up by enough chimeras and demolishers, basically working as a mid-range force. Perhaps have some SoB's in rhinos to screen the chimeras (SoB's will last longer on foot).