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I really appreciate all the advice, this thread is now my permanent bookmark, I've begun batch painting the last 4 knights, and trying to apply all the advice from this thread such as making sure grey areas are not showing by using more layers of even thinner paint, this should also help my highlighting. Also using more wash in certain areas to get a better effect. The thing I wanted to really show everyone though was my eye jewels, I didn't really think I had the brush to do this, but I decided to give it a try as anything would look better than my previous eye jewel. They turned out amazing! For the first four I've ever done I can already tell they will really make my model look tons better, might even get me a 5.0 on CMoN lol. The one on the right is by far the best, I was suprised how realistic that one was.

You've got that spot on quickly as well, good job better than mine ; 0)

They look so much better dude!!!!! The jewels are awesome. The armour is looking so much cleaner too. Nice work indeed. What colour was hare you using on the armour?

This is possibly a no brainer, but. Are you thinning your paints, some areas look like the paint was applied a little thick.
Other than that its just practice dude.
I've included an image of my work below. The berserker is one of the first minis I painted after a 15 year break. The Iron warrior I finished this week. There's only a year of practice between the two.
I know it's not a great pic, but hopefully you get the idea

Are there any washes on those Dark Angels? Seems like if you slathered on a basic GW wash, it would instantly transform those models.

Cutting your shades/washes with water I think is defeating the purpose and making them dry funny. I think you are better off overhshading and then picking out highlights than the obvious undershading you got right now.

I have seen basic nothing paintjobs slopped with a shade and become really good with no effort. I find cutting with water gives uneven drying. You are better of slopping it on right out of the pot and then using a brush to remove the excess to thin areas and lighten surfaces. a dry brush touched to the liquid shade will draw off the excess.

Oh, Drill your barrels!

For cutting washes GW Lahmeins medium is fantastic, i've just started mixing 1:1 and its improved my washes no end.

Dood! Already from just the clean up the models are looking boss! Good stuff, keep it up!

Hey all, just wanted to show a picture of the squad which is pretty much complete, I'm going to throw some cadian fleshtone on the faces then some bugmans glow, go back over the green highlights and I'm pretty much done with them unless anyone else has any suggestions to make them look a bit better. Next I'll be starting on the deathwing command squad, and hopefully can make the armor look a lot better.

Looking good dude.

some close-ups

Wow what a dramatic improvement from your first models. I'm a novice painter myself and am impressed how quickly you have improved.

I also go on cmon quite a bit and as previously advised take their rating with a pinch of salt, but these will definitely get a better rating then the first few you did. Those gem/sensors look awesome. I think you can actually lose a whole point on cmon for not having a finished base, so I'd finish your bases before you post up on there again

The only things I could mention to take them up even further, give the green robes a wash/glaze and highlight the gold.

The contrast on the robes is quite stark, I bet this looks great on the table top, but looks a little off when viewed close up. If you give the whole robe a wash or glaze with a green, then it will pull the two shades together a bit more (just becareful not to splash it all over the armour).

Mix in some silver with your gold and add some highlights, this would really make it "pop". Those wing icons on the legs are crying out for some simple line highlighting along the edges of the wing parts

Hi mate,

Firstly, great to see your improvement within just a single squad. They look really nice in that last picture. Good job!!

Just a couple of things, I know it has been mentioned before, do you thin your paints? If so, how much and with water or thinner?

Also, have you ever considered the use of oil washes? They are scary to use at first but with no reason, I started to use them about a year ago and have never looked back. There are many tutorials on youtube to help. I, myself use an airbrush for all but the small details, couldn't paint without one now.

One more thing, if you wanna really make your metallics 'pop' out from the model vallejo have a range of 'liquid metal' paints which are the nicest metallics I have ever seen.

 Boss Drachenfels wrote:
Hi mate,

Firstly, great to see your improvement within just a single squad. They look really nice in that last picture. Good job!!

Just a couple of things, I know it has been mentioned before, do you thin your paints? If so, how much and with water or thinner?

Also, have you ever considered the use of oil washes? They are scary to use at first but with no reason, I started to use them about a year ago and have never looked back. There are many tutorials on youtube to help. I, myself use an airbrush for all but the small details, couldn't paint without one now.

One more thing, if you wanna really make your metallics 'pop' out from the model vallejo have a range of 'liquid metal' paints which are the nicest metallics I have ever seen.

Thanks everyone! I do thin my paints for the most part, I try to do 50 50, but sometimes the paint is so thin from just a drop of water on my fingertip I get annoyed and don't thin it at all. I also don't thin it when doing detail work.


As far as oil washes, I saw a video of oil washes on top of some kind of glaze and the effect was amazing, he just dabbed a bit and it instantly pooled in the right places, not really how citadel paints pool. I think it's a really cool effect.

Niexist wrote:
Thanks everyone! I do thin my paints for the most part, I try to do 50 50, but sometimes the paint is so thin from just a drop of water on my fingertip I get annoyed and don't thin it at all. I also don't thin it when doing detail work.


As far as oil washes, I saw a video of oil washes on top of some kind of glaze and the effect was amazing, he just dabbed a bit and it instantly pooled in the right places, not really how citadel paints pool. I think it's a really cool effect.

Here are some videos on oil washes:
http://youtu.be/Rdv-tmXjd_I
http://youtu.be/_fdN_2YuSN4

As far as your thinning goes, I don't quite understand what you are saying; if you are using your finger to add water to your paint, don't do that. Your skin has all sorts of oils and dirt on it and it is best not to get that stuff in your paint or on your models. Thinning paints is an absolute must, even with the Citadel "layer" paints, and especially when doing detail work. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to get paint in a precise area with a big glob of thick paint on your brush. Multiple thin layers is hands-down the best way to paint anything and when using a brush, is about the only way to get a nice smooth layer of paint. Here is a pretty decent video on the how and why of thinning paint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH3Qg_OvRk4

Here is a good reason to thin your paint:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

Niexist wrote:
Thanks everyone! I do thin my paints for the most part, I try to do 50 50, but sometimes the paint is so thin from just a drop of water on my fingertip I get annoyed and don't thin it at all. I also don't thin it when doing detail work.


As far as oil washes, I saw a video of oil washes on top of some kind of glaze and the effect was amazing, he just dabbed a bit and it instantly pooled in the right places, not really how citadel paints pool. I think it's a really cool effect.

Here are some videos on oil washes:
http://youtu.be/Rdv-tmXjd_I
http://youtu.be/_fdN_2YuSN4

As far as your thinning goes, I don't quite understand what you are saying; if you are using your finger to add water to your paint, don't do that. Your skin has all sorts of oils and dirt on it and it is best not to get that stuff in your paint or on your models. Thinning paints is an absolute must, even with the Citadel "layer" paints, and especially when doing detail work. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to get paint in a precise area with a big glob of thick paint on your brush. Multiple thin layers is hands-down the best way to paint anything and when using a brush, is about the only way to get a nice smooth layer of paint. Here is a pretty decent video on the how and why of thinning paint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH3Qg_OvRk4

Here is a good reason to thin your paint:

Well, I started using the tip of my finger, because when I used a clean brush to dab up a bit of water it was diluting my paint too much, I mean for me at least, there is a very thin line between thinning my paint, and making watery junk that adds nasty looking color. Are you saying use a whole bunch of layers of this thin watery stuff?

You need to use a method that can give you reliable amounts of paint/water every time. Try a medicine dropper (they are $0.99 for two at Walgreen's) and start with one drop of paint on the palette followed by one drop of clean water, stir with brush. The paint should have a milk-like consistency and If it is too watery, add small amounts of paint until it thickens a bit. Load your brush and touch it too a paper towel to remove extra moisture, if it pulls too much of the pigment with it, it is probably too thin.

This is all trial and error stuff that you have to figure out; there is no magic ratio that works every time. And yes, multiple thin layers is always better than one thick layer. Always.

See, I never thin my paints, ever. I just use small amounts to cover an area, as a few people have said, it's all a learning curve. You tend to find out what works best for you

Some are just too thin, like Tamiya (and I don't think they mix well with water...?)

I get results like this, which I'm pretty pleased with and I only started painting 2 years ago

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/466442_10152196413505574_263888327_o.jpg

That said, this was painted October 2012, so it was a little over a year after I started painting

The photos you posted are looking great compared to the first, well done!

Try using a pipette, it's what I use to gradually thin paints. Def agree with what was said about oils and 'yucky' contaminants that are on fingers when adding water.

Hey guys I'm finding that trying to find that "next level" is extremely hard with tactical marines, there is just not that much detail on them and different colors compared to a terminator. Also as a lot of my new unpainted space marines came from ebay, I'm having to choose between applying decals, and painting myself. In my opinion the decals look terrible compared to the shoulderpads from the dark vengeance box set, and the warhammer 40k starter paint set.

Also I tried some wet blending the shoulderpads, and am trying my hand at Object Source Lighting, I really could use some tips on painting emblems, and my OSL if anyone has any. I'm fairly satisfied with the way my wet blending turned out (except for the guy with the decals as all the water messed up the dry blend job)




As always any tips at all are greatly appreciated. (I also tried to thin my paints more this time, and not with my finger not sure if it shows or not)

Free hand: http://fromthewarp.blogspot.com/search/label/free

Decals: http://blog.winterdyne.co.uk/2010/12/applying-waterslide-decals-step-by-step.html

You're getting better but the transitions between colors are still to stark. I think I mentioned it before, but I highly recommend trying to use glazes. They can make smooth color transitions much easier.

Tons of great advice on this thread. You're painting is looking a lot better. Patience is very important. Don't rush. Some folk can turn out 20 models like it's nothing, other labor over one for a weeks. Take whatever time you need to paint at the level you're happy with.

One suggestion I didn't see, but I could have just missed it, is black outlining. I have found sometimes when painting with two similar colors right next to each other that there just isn't good definition between them. I'll get out my finest brush and with either watered down black paint, or using black ink, I'll line the area. It is a very subtle effect, and gives real definition to an area. I have included a pic of mine as an example. If you look at the missles on the figure, I lined each one with black to make them pop a bit more because the red and white just didn't have enough definition. I too still have a lot to learn, and have learned a bunch since I painted this model. I struggled with letting my paints stay too think. If you thin out your paint a bit more, you'll find they look better, and blend a LOT better. Washes can be your friend too. Anyway, hope that helps a little bit.

Also, don't get down on yourself because others judge you harshly. I have seen fantastic paintjobs getting ripped apart by folk. If you like what you've done, then thats really all that matters, unless you're selling them. Good luck!!!

And some people just judge harshly for sake of...who knows. That's like some of the voters on Coolminiornot... Take it with a gain of salt.

Say, have you considered getting the new spray can colors? That can really help give you a nice, even foundation to work with.

I'm working on Blood Angels, and for the basic marine, I give him a blast of red (from an old Citadel Blood Red can I've had lying around for years!). Even if it's not a solid cover, I make up the rest with brushed on paint (and that minimizes the "strokes" for me). After that dries thoroughly, it gets a generous wash or two. Now, before the details, I actually go back and dry brush some red to even out the armor and to tone done any hard transitions that may have been left by the wash. This step also allows you to leave the dark fills in areas that have dubious definition without making the surrounding areas dark as well.

Ahhh, sorry it probably will be easier to show through pics, I'll see if I can dig up some in progress stuff

I recognize this level of painting very well. I can tell you that you have a bright future if you keep practicing. i was stuck at this point for a long time. what you need is your own personal style. by that i mean some people like their minis "cartoony" kinda like GWs display models, others like them ultra realistic, and there are a million styles in between. i can tell by your models youve been reading and watching alot of tutorials, thats good but it can also slow ur progress if you try to do too many techniques on one model. i suggest finding one or two people you really like on youtube and stick to them. the reason i say this is bc if you are going for realistic you wont need washes too much but instead you will go with multiple layers to create depth. on the other hand if ur going for GWesque models ull go with less layers and more washes. this is just one of many examples of two techniques clashing on a model. good luck man this is an amazing hobby and as i said you have a bright future. other than that all i can say is thin your paint and get a second job (good paint and tools are just as important as technique, and 5hey dont come cheap)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and one last thing... if you going to post on CMoN than just remember they are haters and half of the "9s and 10s" photoshop their pics. second of all use it as a tool. kinda like a landmark system for yourself. if youre a 6.4 then what are the 6.8and 6.9s doing that your not. i cant tell you how good it felt to have a mini rated higher than my youtube "mentor"

One thing I'm really starting to hate is robes, I have nearly all the paints recommened to do it, and I had a really nice look before I went to the ushbanti bone, anyway if anyone has any suggestions on these robes I'd greatly appreciate it, put a lot of time in on this little bugger.





I also took everyone's advice and went and bought the GW wash, and glaze for green, this is what my models look like now.




I feel like it's kind of a crapshoot with different techniques. Half the time it comes out horribly wrong, and so I just have to go with what works, but I always try something new on every model.

The robes on the terminator look good, I'd be happy with those. I had the same problem as you on the librarian, my first one I painted looked crap, so I bought another and repainted it (the joys of ebay and cheap dark vengeance models)

You're definitely on the right track, so I'd take solace in that

Like on your flamer, I'd have it metal, like silver at the end but with bronze stippled, or drybrushed, at the end to make it look oxidised. And any silver parts, give them a black wash, not enough to go into recesses, but just to tint the metallic look at a bit darker, and then you can lightly drybrush a lighter silver over the top. It'll make it look more natural, rather a bright, stark silver.

You've come on a long way since your first pic, already. Keep it up

Hey yeh the termie looks really awesome! The robes looks good too

in terms of the robes on the librarian have you looked at:
http://fromthewarp.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/quick-look-at-how-to-do-layering.html

Imo fromthewarp should be read top to bottom I started collecting again this year and have found it invaluable for tips, tricks and how to improve

I ended up finishing the model and got the robes to where I am happy with them from some drybrushing. I then added some tiny script as best I could to all the purity seals to give it that little extra detail. I also put several layers of glaze on the blue armor, and the sword. Even though I'm not 100% happy with the force sword, I am happy overall with the model as my HQ, and think it is my best one yet.

I'm starting to really see the advantage of glazing. Another thing I'm learning is that I may be better off doing manual darkening of recesses in cloaks etc rather than trying to use a wash to do it.


My very first finished HQ(unless I find something to make him look better)


Here is a good example of how I'm trying to do my OSL, on the arms, and the head/backpack


Here is a good picture of the robes, and the script.

This topic has really helped me TONS everyone, I try to work on every technique people tell me. Thanks everyone! Also, bear in mind I only have one blue color (ultramarine blue from army painter) and ulthuan grey which has always functioned as my white.

Well, according to CMoN this is my worst figure yet, ranking in at 4.1, a full 1.2 less than my deathwing knight master, and .5 less than my first deathwing commander with the sword.

I'm not sure why, I feel like this is my best work yet, but apparently I'm wrong..

They did that cuz it's not based, and it's still on it's painting stand. IN CMoN opinion it would be considered unfinished. It looks great to me!

Take CMON ratings with a little grain of salt. They're rather harsh over there, and it doesn't help there's a flood of award winning painters over - granted, with dedication and perfection you'll be on your way to scoring 7/8/9s. Keep on painting 'brother!