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So if a drop pod deepstrikes in front of coteaz and a bunch of marines jump out what is considered within 12". It says 'when they appear' in coteaz's rules so does that mean that if the drop pod is within 12" then coteaz gets to fire on both units, or can you throw the marines further than 12" with their disembark and therefore save them from the shots. Alternatively if the drop pod is outside the 12" bubble can the marines show up within the 12" bubble when they disembark and be fine?

Recently I thought it was one way, then reread the rules and had to switch my opinion. Not exactly sure still and kinda want to get it correct.

Any and all units deployed within 12" of Coteaz can be fired upon by him and his unit (if he is in one).

When you deepstrike via drop pod, both the pod and the passengers are being deployed (as per the DS rules), so either of those units (pod/marines) that are within 12" of Coteaz at the end of their deployment are applicable.

So its all about where the drop pod lands then. If the drop pod is within 12" then Coteaz can fire at the pod and whatever is inside, but if the pod is outside of the 12" bubble then the unit inside of the pod can get out and go in the bubble with no issues.

Ok, that makes sense. Looks like I only screwed it up once.

That's not quite right. The rule states that he may shoot at a unit that "arrives from reserve within 12 inches."
Now we look at the FAQ:

GK FAQ wrote:Q: When are the shooting attacks from Inquisitor Coteaz's IBEY special rule fired?
A: They are fired as soon as a unit that is a valid target is placed on the board. Once the shooting attacks have been resolved, the unit can complete its move. If the unit is arriving by Deep Strike, this will be after the scatter has been resolved.

Q: Does a squad disembarking from a Drop Pod, or Mycetic Spore, count as arriving from reserve for Inquisitor Coteaz's IBEY special rule?
A: Yes, this means that Inquisitor Coteaz and his unit will be able to fire once at each unit.

The first FAQ question I typed and then realised I didn't need to reference. But I don't want to delete it.

The second FAQ question tells us that the disembark move out of the Pod counts as the "arrives from reserve" part of the IBEY rule. So if they disembark into that 12" bubble, you get to shoot at them. Basically, if they're close enough to Rapid Fire, they're close enough to IBEY.

No the models coming out of the pod can be targetted by IBEY as they have come on from reserves

war wrote:
So its all about where the drop pod lands then. If the drop pod is within 12" then Coteaz can fire at the pod and whatever is inside, but if the pod is outside of the 12" bubble then the unit inside of the pod can get out and go in the bubble with no issues.

Ok, that makes sense. Looks like I only screwed it up once.

Not what I was trying to say, but the other two above have explained it better.

So then it is possible to disembark from a drop pod within the 12" bubble in a way that will not permit the extra shooting phase. Interesting...

next question then

Do the figures come out of the pod, then move off... or do they just appear there? This comes up when a pod is fully under the 12" bubble. If they walk away from the drop pod then if the far side of the pod is within 12" then they would be able to be shot at. Correct?

war wrote:
So then it is possible to disembark from a drop pod within the 12" bubble in a way that will not permit the extra shooting phase. Interesting...

For the second time, it is NOT POSSIBLE. Please read my above post, and respond to that with a pertinent rules-based argument.

Do the figures come out of the pod, then move off... or do they just appear there? This comes up when a pod is fully under the 12" bubble. If they walk away from the drop pod then if the far side of the pod is within 12" then they would be able to be shot at. Correct?

You just need to read IBEY, I think. Coteaz must have LoS. If the DP blocks LoS (which is an old can o' worms), then Coteaz can't target the unit. However, if Coteaz shoots at and explodes the DP, and the enemy unit is still close enough, then he would be able to draw LoS, and so could shoot at the unit.
Read the relevant FAQs. I posted them above.

I assumed that the figures inside the drop pod "arrive" from reserves inside the drop pod and therefore if the drop pod is in the 12" bubble then the unit inside is also in the bubble by default regardless of where they go after they disembark.

Now your telling me that the distance between Coteaz and the disembarked unit DOES matter. If they come in from reserve 1" away from the drop pod (pg 79 of the rule book) then I do not understand this interpretation.

Here is what the relevant rules as I know them:
1. Pg 45 of the GK codex: If an enemy unit arrives from reserve within 12" of Coteaz and within his line of sight, Coteaz and his unit can immediately make an out-of-sequence shooting attack against it.

2. Pg 4 of the GK FaQ (above, re-posted): "Q: does a squad disembarking from a drop pod... ... count as arriving from reserve for Inquisitor Coteaz's IBEY special rule?
A: Yes, this means that Inquisitor Coteaz and his unit will be able to fire once at each unit."

3. Pg 4 of the GK FaQ: "Q: when are the shooting attacks from Inquistor Coteaz's IBEY special rule fired?
A: They are fired as soon as a unit that is a valid target is placed on the board. Once the shooting attacks have been resolved, the unit can complete its move. If the unit is arriving by Deep Strike, this will be after the scatter has been resolved"

4. Pg 69 of the SM codex: "once a drop pod has landed, the hatches are blown and all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal."

5. Pg 79 of the main rulebook: "when a unit disembarkes, place the modles one at a time, using the following method: place the first model in base contact with one of the vehicle's access points.... ...the model can then make a normal move ... ... but it must end its move wholly within 6" of the access point it disembarked from. Repeat this process for each model in the unit.

That is all that I know that has been written about them.

I can see 2 ways of looking at it.

1. if the unit is in the drop pod, then it can be shot at if any part of the drop pod is within 12" of Coteaz and he can see it.

2. the unit 'arrives' when it is placed 1" from the drop pod's access point then moves from that point onto the field. If the figure starts out in the 12" bubble then regardless of where they end up, Coteaz can shoot at them.

Interestingly, you could make a case that Coteaz should be able to shoot at the drop pod before the unit is placed as both are 'immediate' effects. Anyway, I hope this explains my question a bit better. Sorry I didn't put it all out earlier, i'm still new to 40k and i'm trying not to screw up rules as much as possible.

I wish they would've just changed the IBEY rule to say "Coteaz and his unit have the Interceptor rule, but may fire their weapons in the next Shooting Phase too". Although I actually just wish Coteaz couldn't do that at all!

The disembarking unit becomes a "valid target" (FAQ) once all the models in the unit are placed on the board--ie. after completing their disembark move. So, if they end that disembarking within 12" of Coteaz, then he gets to shoot.

Also, I'm not sure #1 makes sense.
"1. if the unit is in the drop pod, then it can be shot at if any part of the drop pod is within 12" of Coteaz and he can see it."
It sounds like you're saying, "If the [Marine] unit is in the drop pod, then [the Marine unit] can be shot at if any part of the drop pod is within 12" of Coteaz and he can see [the Marine unit]." But embarked units can't be targeted...and since only Black Templars can stay inside a Pod, this usually wouldn't come into play.

Looking at the new IA rules for the Lucius Pod, the Dred actually stays embarked for 1 turn ( the pod being an AV12 open topped transport with shrouding the turn it lands) disembarking (and assaulting since it is still an assault vehicle) the following turn.
Since we know the Pod rules are changing (down to 10 capacity...no more HQs coming in with squads) I am curious if the IA rules are a harbinger of the regular pod (Marines stay embarked the turn it lands, but can still shoot since the pod is open topped and disembark the next turn).
IF this is the case it would invalidate this topic. Like shooting at a LS Storm with scouts. If it deep strikes you get free shots at the transport per IBEY, but not the embarked unit.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
The disembarking unit becomes a "valid target" (FAQ) once all the models in the unit are placed on the board--ie. after completing their disembark move.

While I agree with you, I think the confusion stems from this from that FAQ:
"They are fired as soon as a unit that is a valid target is placed on the board. Once the shooting attacks have been resolved, the unit can complete its move."

The idea being that the shooting occurs before the "move". But in the case of pods, as you mentioned, the move that they use to disembark *IS* the one that puts them on the table. It's not as though they are placed base-to-base with the pod and then moved.

It's not always a fantastic idea to be podding within 12" of Coteaz anyway. First of all, you get shot at - there's the obvious one - but if you don't take his unit out in one go then you're open to an *almost* guaranteed countercharge. Coteaz strikes surprisingly hard in close combat for an old man. If you pod just a little further away, you get a "free" round of shooting provided your weapons have over 12" range.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:


If the DP blocks LoS (which is an old can o' worms).

actually it's something thats easilly resolved, you need to discuss it before the game starts, the simple answer is that if they want to play where the pods block LoS then they cannot shoot it's weapon due to a blocked LoS.

fluff and common sence would state taht the doors open on impact, pods do not block LoS but do provide cover saves for shooting through it for both parties

Actually it is TLoS. If the pod blocks Line of Sight then it blocks Line of sight...

If not then it doesn't. This is the same for every model in the game.

I dropped a squad of seraphim with celestine about 6 inches from Coteaz one game. He was standing right next to the ADL quad gun. So, he got to fire off 4 rounds from that, plus his squad's shots. Then he immedietely fired off 4 more rounds from the quad for interceptor. Fortunetely, Coteaz understood his own heretical misgivings, repented, and was then cleansed by the purity of fire.

So, I am still not sure what the consensus is.

A unit drop pods in and disembarks. Does Coteaz and his unit get one round of shooting at the pod AND at the squad? This is assuming within range and LoS.

Also, disembarking has changed from 5e. Now, it is place one model at a time, then make their move as normal. However, the FAQ says " They are fired as soon as a unit that is a valid target is placed on the board." This technically means that coteaz and his unit would get to fire a full salvo at each model individually as it comes out of the pod.

Then, to add insult to injury, if Coteaz is manning a quad gun, after all of the IBEY is done, he still gets an interceptor shot.

Models aren't units, so he wouldn't shoot at them individually.

 Green is Best! wrote:
So, I am still not sure what the consensus is.

A unit drop pods in and disembarks. Does Coteaz and his unit get one round of shooting at the pod AND at the squad?

Why do you need consensus for this? It's answered in the GK FAQ:

Q: Does a squad disembarking from a Drop Pod, or Mycetic Spore, count as arriving from reserve for Inquisitor Coteaz’s I’ve Been Expecting You special rule? (p45)
A: Yes, this means that Inquisitor Coteaz and his unit will be able to fire once at each unit.

 Green is Best! wrote:

Then, to add insult to injury, if Coteaz is manning a quad gun, after all of the IBEY is done, he still gets an interceptor shot.

I think you mean, "to add injury to injury." And yes, the Interceptor shot from the Quad gun has not yet been resolved through IBEY, which means an additional attack after the initial blasting.
I like to put Coteaz in a GKSS and have the squad TL from Divination. That way, even if you somehow get through my Warp Quake (probably because I placed you close enough to EXPECT YOU!), there's 2 psycannons, 8 Str5 storm bolters, and a Lascannon. And then a Lascannon Intercept.
Take that, Death Company!

Forget Strike Squads, a full hentchmen force is where he's most overpowering.
Try a unit of dirt cheap servitors with re-rolls on their 36" range multi-meltas!
Hentchmen have more cheese than a Stilton Festival.

I use a purgation squad with Coteaz (4 psycannons). They benefit the most from divvy (especially if you get perfect timing: 16 S7 AP4 rending ignores cover needs no line of sight shots every turn ).

Tactical_Genius wrote:
I use a purgation squad with Coteaz (4 psycannons). They benefit the most from divvy (especially if you get perfect timing: 16 S7 AP4 rending ignores cover needs no line of sight shots every turn ).

Technically, they do not ignore cover as they in fact grant a cover save while ignoring line of sight.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:
I use a purgation squad with Coteaz (4 psycannons). They benefit the most from divvy (especially if you get perfect timing: 16 S7 AP4 rending ignores cover needs no line of sight shots every turn ).

Technically, they do not ignore cover as they in fact grant a cover save while ignoring line of sight.

SJ

With Perfect Timing from divination they ignore cover even if they grant a cover save they ignore it because of Perfect timing.

And they only grant a cover save if they use their power anyway.

True. Its a good thing Coteaz can count on getting Perfect Timing every time so you can build a strategy around it.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
True. Its a good thing Coteaz can count on getting Perfect Timing every time so you can build a strategy around it.

SJ

you didn't actually read his post did you...

Tactical_Genius wrote:
... They benefit the most from divvy (especially if you get perfect timing: ...

 DeathReaper wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
True. Its a good thing Coteaz can count on getting Perfect Timing every time so you can build a strategy around it.

SJ

you didn't actually read his post did you...

Tactical_Genius wrote:
... They benefit the most from divvy (especially if you get perfect timing: ...

I read it. My response stands.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
True. Its a good thing Coteaz can count on getting Perfect Timing every time so you can build a strategy around it.

SJ

you didn't actually read his post did you...

Tactical_Genius wrote:
... They benefit the most from divvy (especially if you get perfect timing: ...

I read it. My response stands.

SJ

Not very well. (Hint: He said IF you get Perfect Timing, the other divination stuff is really good as well).

He is not building a strategy around Perfect Timing, he is building a strat around Divination. This works really well because Divination is amazing.

 Green is Best! wrote:
So, I am still not sure what the consensus is.

A unit drop pods in and disembarks. Does Coteaz and his unit get one round of shooting at the pod AND at the squad? This is assuming within range and LoS.

Also, disembarking has changed from 5e. Now, it is place one model at a time, then make their move as normal. However, the FAQ says " They are fired as soon as a unit that is a valid target is placed on the board." This technically means that coteaz and his unit would get to fire a full salvo at each model individually as it comes out of the pod.

Then, to add insult to injury, if Coteaz is manning a quad gun, after all of the IBEY is done, he still gets an interceptor shot.

Basically, the consensus is:

if a drop pod is in the 12" bubble then it can be shot at
if a squad comes out of the pod, it has to end its disembark move to become a 'valid target'. Before that point it is not a valid target and therefore can escape the 12" bubble
LoS must also exist between Coteaz and the squad (drop pod too, but thats hard to hide)


While we're still on this, something else came up recently. Is the 12" measured as the crow flys, or normally. If Coteaz is on top of a tower (or bastion) that is 6" high, would the bubble only be 6" from the tower (or his point on the ground floor of the tower... whatever)