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So, what do you think? Typhus goes with the 21 zombies and the Great Unclean One will be taking the Grimoire, in hopes of getting the Screames a 3++ re-roll 1's. I know its not exactly a 2++ scream council, but also only 200 points for the screamers. The concept is board control with solid shooting and a fast assault element in the screamers. The list Ive usually been playing is CSM with IG (similar CSM but more plague marines, IG is leman russ, platoon, and vendetta) and been doing well with it, but i had some really really close wins against Eldar/Daemons. I think this list is slightly stronger, but I do loose a number of las cannons/autocannons in shooting.

HQ
1a Greater Unclean One
ER, GR, LVL 3

1 Typhus

Troops
1a Plague Bearers

1 7x Plague Marines

2 21x Cultist (Zombies)

3 10x Cultist (Zombies)

Heavy
1 3x Obliterators
MoN

2 3x Obliterators
MoN

Fast Attack
1a 8x Screamers

1 Helldrake

Still looking for feedback

I would find a way to get another monstrous creature in there so you have two for saturation. Maybe ditch the Great Unclean One and get a Tzeentch Herald with disc and mastery level 3, you should pick up the 4+ inv power, then with the grim the Screamers will get the 2+ inv.

The only issue is with a single herald, they can be easily challenged out and killed... You can't run multiple heralds in an allied detachment, right? Also, typhus is on the same lvl as most other MCs, albeit slower....

Edit: I forgot CD dont have "champions of chaos" rule, so i can simply not accept challenge in that case. Precision shots are still a worry, but eh

Don't accept challenges then and use look out, sir to survive. You can take four Heralds in a HQ slot, so yes, you could have multiple Heralds.

Is Typhus T6 and does he have many wounds and high strength?

Precision shots can still be allocated via look out, sir. Only characters and snipers get it, hardly a game breaker.

Typhus is T5 with 4W, but has a 2+/5++ and feel no pain, so basically a 5++ and 5+ FNP against other MCs, and has 4+D6 attacks at S6 with a force weapon, so he usually will handle an MC... also has blight grenades, so if charged by MC the MC gets -1 attacks

MC will insta kill typhus. No fnp at s10 smashes.

Chaos chump wrote:
MC will insta kill typhus. No fnp at s10 smashes.

Nope, in those instance, as he is in with the zombies as mentioned, the zombie sergeant who also has champion of chaos will take the charge.

Then he'll get insta killed the next round, after the MC kills the sarge?

I might be wrong, but I though you could only smash attack on the charge? he will have several re-rolls then at least from the zombies, so he can put up a fight if there are only 2 or 3 attacks coming at him. I can always break him off to and screen with zombies, so the MC wont be able to hit him...

Either way, youre kind of missing the point of doing the list evaluation, not focusing on Typhus. Im really trying to see how the list looks overall, and Typhus is my boy so he stays :-)

Typhus is a champ, simply decline challenges vs MCs. The GUO with Balesword will eat MCs for breakfast.

I like the list in general, its a bit slow moving and darn close to pure Nurgle. Have you considered dropping the screamers for Rot Probiscus Plague Drones? They are pretty fast and rerollable 3's to wound most opponents with T5 and multiple wounds is pretty hardy. They are pretty fast and substantially more durable than the Screamers.

Maybe split the Oblits into 3x2 for flexibility. Possible split the Zombies into 3x10 for an additional objective camper.

Yeh, i only do like the survivability of the 2x3 units of oblits, perhaps ill try the 3x2 however. As for the army, any apparent weaknesses? I havent found one myself... I know Tau will be tough as always, and Eldar Ill need to hit fast with the screamers and oblits to try and drop the Wave Serpents (though I have played eldar a few times and havent lost to them yet even with WS spam, but the player was a bit aggressive with them)

Well, you are weak vs Flyers, both FMC and the Vehicular variety. Proper Wave Serpent Spam will give you fits as only your Oblits threaten them. Riptides and Wraithknights are major issues. Highly mobile shooty armies also will give you issues.

This is a solid list that will fair well against many balanced builds, but many of the unbalanced builds will be difficult to handle.

As for the Riptides/Wraithknights, the oblits can hit them hard and fast, then GUO and even screamers (have armorbane) can wreck them fairly quickly (in particular if the screamers have a 3++ with re-roll 1's)... But yes, they are always tough units. Flyers will be an issue even more, I do agree there. If for example I hit Necrons, i have to focus on their ground units (wriahts likely) and simply ignore the flyers the best I can outside maybe drake vector strikes. For flying MCs, i need the oblits to ground them and then I should have a better chance to deal with them.

Thanks for the thoughts, i will continue to think thru these things!

Zagman wrote:
Typhus is a champ, simply decline challenges vs 's MCs.

He can't decline, and has to issue challenge if possible, like all chaos characters with champion if chaos rule.

Not completely relevant to the thread in general about list, but relevant enough i think in discussing what a list can do.

ForgeMarine wrote:
As for the Riptides/Wraithknights, the oblits can hit them hard and fast, then GUO and even screamers (have armorbane) can wreck them fairly quickly (in particular if the screamers have a 3++ with re-roll 1's)... But yes, they are always tough units. Flyers will be an issue even more, I do agree there. If for example I hit Necrons, i have to focus on their ground units (wriahts likely) and simply ignore the flyers the best I can outside maybe drake vector strikes. For flying MCs, i need the oblits to ground them and then I should have a better chance to deal with them.

Thanks for the thoughts, i will continue to think thru these things!

I missed that the GUO would take the Grimiore. They've gotten much better in my eyes and short of a Heral in a unit, a GUO is a great place for the Grimiore.

Riptide and Wraithknights are mobile enough they should never end up in CC with the GUO.

6 Oblits firing Lascannons vs a Wraithknight deals 2 wounds without cover or a save, gets worse with Cover. And those Oblits were your best option for taking out the Wave Serpents anyway. Oblits fair slightly better vs a Riptide, 2.2 wounds, 1.1 if they overcharged thier shield generator.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chaos chump wrote:

Zagman wrote:
Typhus is a champ, simply decline challenges vs 's MCs.

He can't decline, and has to issue challenge if possible, like all chaos characters with champion if chaos rule.

Not completely relevant to the thread in general about list, but relevant enough i think in discussing what a list can do.

Good catch, disregard my previous statement.

With that said, what real threat does a wraith knight pose? Sure, a couple of S10 shots a turn will hurt the oblits (who should be getting a 4+ cover or maybe even 3+ if i go to ground in area), but keeping it out of my zone with the GOU should really minimize its impact i would think (along with the plasma from the oblits). As for the riptides, i know they are a threat to the heldrake, however outside late game objective contention, they dont do that much damage...

If i run into blob guard with a lot of templates, that would be another tough match up where the GUO would have to handle a blob...

Keep it coming!

ForgeMarine wrote:
Typhus is T5 with 4W, but has a 2+/5++ and feel no pain, so basically a 5++ and 5+ FNP against other MCs, and has 4+D6 attacks at S6 with a force weapon, so he usually will handle an MC... also has blight grenades, so if charged by MC the MC gets -1 attacks

So Typhus isn't a monstrous creature then in terms of stats or model wise. You should have two big monsters for target saturation or else a single one will just get blown to bits.

Well, the one I do have is the GUO, so with boimancy he is hopefully going to hang around T9 or so and maybe even gain back some extra wounds (he has 6 if i can recall). He is a tough cookie... I also have the screamers dont forget, which can get a 3++ re-roll 1's from the grimoire, so they are more or less like a MC with 8 S5 ap2 amorbane attacks and 16 wounds as they are so fast.

I don't think you quite understand by what I mean by monstrous creature..

No, i do, Daemon Princes, Nid MCs, Greater Daemons, Riptids, WriahgtKnights.... I know exactly what an MC is, but im not sure you grasp the concept of MC equivalency, in such units as the screamers... Thats why I made the point i did

They are not the same though. You are just comparing the damage out put of those units. The point I am making is a visible target for saturation. A player will shoot the big monster because it's a big monster and it will go down. So fit in your army better would be a HoT with multiple mastery levels, use that bad boy on a disc and throw him in with the Screamers and they have a 2+ inv. A much better deathstar instead of a single big ass monster who is going to get torrented to death by fire.

ForgeMarine wrote:You can't run multiple heralds in an allied detachment, right?

mercer wrote:You can take four Heralds in a HQ slot, so yes, you could have multiple Heralds.

You can only take Multiple Heralds in a Primary Detachment.
The Daemons here are taken as an Allied Detchment.
So in this case, no you can't take multiple Heralds in a single HQ slot.

Every day is a school day! Though my point still stands, Herald, mastery level 3 and chances are the Screamers are getting a 2+ inv.

Yeh, using a HoT on disc, lvl 3 with Grimoire does open up something like 150 points or more with divination which is boss, but I do loose the midfield presence of a GUO w./ lvl 3 Biomancy, so its a tough call... I have a game set up tomorrow against a strong Tau list, trying the GUO list, well see if i should switch afterwards...

Just to provide an update, I did face a rather nasty Tau lists this weekend at 1750 (lots of Kroot, few firewarriors, some pathfinders, riptide, suits, skyray, hammerheads with ion, and stupid cheap/awesome tau forgeworld flyer) and took it in a killpoints game. The GUO was an absolute beasts, took several rounds of fire before dying, and even took several wounds from over watch (kroot are the clear bane). I really, really like how the list performed.