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I've been trying to make sense of the spawn-kin rules and having some trouble:

1) Does a mixed unit of skinks and skrox count as Infantry, Monstrous Infantry, mixed unit, or what? Does Dread 13th work on it? Do nearby infantry characters get look-out-sir? Do the skrox still count as monstrous infantry and thus get to make their full 3 supporting attacks?

2) Can a skrox unit be horded so as to allow two rows of kroxigor to fight? My reading is no, as each krox gets counted as if it were its footprint of skinks. Thus hording the units allows only the third skink-sized row to fight, and the 2nd row of krox would be the 4th row of skinks. But some of the posts I've read seem to indicate otherwise.

3) Can a skrox unit be horded to allow two rows of skinks to fight and krox fight from the 3rd rank? I believe also no, but seek clarification.

4) Do the krox in skrox get any benefit from predatory fighter? My reading is if the krox are still in the 2nd rank, supporting attacks prevents more than 3 attacks from coming forward, thus the rule solely disadvantages skrox?

Thanks!

4 is easy - nothing gets benefits to supporting attacks from predatory fighter. Mi and MC are capped at 3 supporting. I and C are capped at 1 supporting by the BRB. So it doesn't only affect skrox.
Not sure about the others.

1. infantry squad, gains fear, has monstrous infantry in second row that take a hit from shooting on a 5-6 per hit.

2. if you run 10 skinks wide you would be a horde. In order to get 2 rows of kroxigar supporting that front row, youd need 108 skinks in the squad............

3. no, the kroxigars are placed in the second row untill that row is full. They are then placed in third row.

4. until there is a faq out there is nodefinitive answer for predetory fighter support attacks. The way i read and play it is that the attacks generated from predetory fighter still occur, since they are generated after the original supporting attacks are made and thus not limited by the supporting attack rule.

Although if you read he thread on Predatory Fighter and supporting attacks, you'll eee that RAW is currently pretty clear. Unless they TAQ it to say that it can give extra attacks from supporting ranks, then it cannot.

Niteware wrote:
Although if you read he thread on Predatory Fighter and supporting attacks, you'll eee that RAW is currently pretty clear. Unless they TAQ it to say that it can give extra attacks from supporting ranks, then it cannot.

The counter point being that a kroxigor in a 2nd rank is only making 3 supporting attacks. If he rolls 6,6,6 he then makes three Predatory Fighter attacks.
He didn't make 6 supporting attacks.
If that same Krox had Frenzy (skaven pelt banner) and Time Warp (+1 Attack) he'd have 5 attacks base, and make 3 supporting from the 2nd rank. That's the supporting rule.
Then after resolving those attacks, he could generate PF attacks.

I see both sides, and it really needs a FAQ.

As for your other question:
1) It is infantry, with MI inside. You could 13th it, but you can't kill the MI with 13th, just the skinks. This means you can't get clan rats, as you cannot wipe the unit, but would kill off 4D6 skinks.
2&3) Krox count as the 2nd and 3rd rank, as the skinks 20mm base sets the rank size. Since Krox must be in the 2nd rank, and also take up the 3rd, skinks behind a krox don't get to swing.
4) If supporting models can't claim PF, then yes, Skrox units truly suck, they'd get all of the bad with none of the good.

-Matt

They are clearly stated to be additional attacks, and the Supporitng Attacks rule is VERY clear that you DO NOT get these. There is no "two sides" RAW, just one clear one.

1) Surely it is "unique" unit type? WHere is the RAW to say a mixed unit is only one specific type?

Its not unique because you are purchasing a Skink Cohort infantry unit that just has 50 point kroxigar upgrades.

They were unique before, not very clear what they are now really.

Eihnlazer wrote:
Its not unique because you are purchasing a Skink Cohort infantry unit that just has 50 point kroxigar upgrades.

They were unique previously, as they have a totally unique c omposition.

If they dont, please show the RAW that a unit of MI and Infantry remains Infantry. Page and graph please

This is something GW really seem to screw up consistently.
Having something called "unit/troop type" as a stat for the model is just confusing, it's been an issue in their games for a while now.

HawaiiMatt wrote:

1) It is infantry, with MI inside. You could 13th it, but you can't kill the MI with 13th, just the skinks. This means you can't get clan rats, as you cannot wipe the unit, but would kill off 4D6 skinks.

Fraid not. The Skaven FAQ is pretty specific about it:

Q: Can I target a unit with The Curse of the Horned Rat (a.k.a. the Dreaded 13th) comprised of infantry and non-infantry models? (p.79)
A: No, unless all of the non-infantry models are characters. Such units are unique units and as such cannot be targeted by The Curse of the Horned Rat. Note that adding a character to a unit of a different troop type will not make that unit unique, [sic]it's troop type will be unchanged.

So a Skrox unit is immune to CotHR/Dread 13 while the Krox are alive.

Also, "Krox in Skrox" has to be one of the greatest WHFB phrases ever.

Thanks all for the comments. I feel justified in my confusion at least.

streamdragon wrote:

Fraid not. The Skaven FAQ is pretty specific about it:

Q: Can I target a unit with The Curse of the Horned Rat (a.k.a. the Dreaded 13th) comprised of infantry and non-infantry models? (p.79)
A: No, unless all of the non-infantry models are characters. Such units are unique units and as such cannot be targeted by The Curse of the Horned Rat. Note that adding a character to a unit of a different troop type will not make that unit unique, [sic]it's troop type will be unchanged.

So a Skrox unit is immune to CotHR/Dread 13 while the Krox are alive.

Also, "Krox in Skrox" has to be one of the greatest WHFB phrases ever.

Questions about your new lizardmen codex? Please consult the skaven FAQ! All (well, some) shall be made clear. Thanks for the find!

kooshlord wrote:
Thanks all for the comments. I feel justified in my confusion at least.

streamdragon wrote:

Fraid not. The Skaven FAQ is pretty specific about it:

Q: Can I target a unit with The Curse of the Horned Rat (a.k.a. the Dreaded 13th) comprised of infantry and non-infantry models? (p.79)
A: No, unless all of the non-infantry models are characters. Such units are unique units and as such cannot be targeted by The Curse of the Horned Rat. Note that adding a character to a unit of a different troop type will not make that unit unique, [sic]it's troop type will be unchanged.

So a Skrox unit is immune to CotHR/Dread 13 while the Krox are alive.

Also, "Krox in Skrox" has to be one of the greatest WHFB phrases ever.

Questions about your new lizardmen codex? Please consult the skaven FAQ! All (well, some) shall be made clear. Thanks for the find!

I'm fairly certain that note about mixed units being unique is somewhere in the BRB, but I don't have my copy to hand to check.

And it makes sense to check the Skaven FAQ for a Skaven spell.

It is the only spell, i can think of at the moment, that still cares about unit type.
Why wouldn't that answer be in that book's FAQ.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Eihnlazer wrote:
Its not unique because you are purchasing a Skink Cohort infantry unit that just has 50 point kroxigar upgrades.

They were unique previously, as they have a totally unique c omposition.

If they dont, please show the RAW that a unit of MI and Infantry remains Infantry. Page and graph please

I'm not saying a unit of MI and IN remain IN. I'm saying that a unit Skink Cohorts specifically remain Infantry. Because that's what the rules imply.

Page 38 Lizardmen Army Book.
3rd Paragraph of Spawn-Kin.
Stomps and Thunderstomps are always resolved against Skinks (if all the skinks are slain, any excess hits are lost).

There you go. You must be infantry, beast or swarm to be stomped on, and you're given rules how to distribute the stomp hits against a combined unit.

13th spell FAQ says that you compare the 4D6 roll to the number of Infantry models in the unit. After reading the FAQ though, I was wrong about not making clan rats part. If the 4D6 roll is greater than the number of infantry, you remove all the infantry and place a clan rat unit. None infantry models are left behind, forming up 1" away from the new clan rat unit, with the survivors placed by the controlling player.

Furthermore, it looks like the Skaven FAQ about mixed units being unit type Unique has been removed. Just read through the 6 pages of skaven faq a few times and I cannot find the reference.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Eihnlazer wrote:
Its not unique because you are purchasing a Skink Cohort infantry unit that just has 50 point kroxigar upgrades.

They were unique previously, as they have a totally unique c omposition.

If they dont, please show the RAW that a unit of MI and Infantry remains Infantry. Page and graph please

I'm not saying a unit of MI and IN remain IN. I'm saying that a unit Skink Cohorts specifically remain Infantry. Because that's what the rules imply.

Page 38 Lizardmen Army Book.
3rd Paragraph of Spawn-Kin.
Stomps and Thunderstomps are always resolved against Skinks (if all the skinks are slain, any excess hits are lost).

There you go. You must be infantry, beast or swarm to be stomped on, and you're given rules how to distribute the stomp hits against a combined unit.

13th spell FAQ says that you compare the 4D6 roll to the number of Infantry models in the unit. After reading the FAQ though, I was wrong about not making clan rats part. If the 4D6 roll is greater than the number of infantry, you remove all the infantry and place a clan rat unit. None infantry models are left behind, forming up 1" away from the new clan rat unit, with the survivors placed by the controlling player.

Furthermore, it looks like the Skaven FAQ about mixed units being unit type Unique has been removed. Just read through the 6 pages of skaven faq a few times and I cannot find the reference.

-Matt

I literally just downloaded the most recent version of the Skaven FAQ, so unless it was updated sometime between my post and yours, it should be there on the last page.

It is interesting that the Lizardmen army book spells out how to deal with stomp/thunderstomp against a combined Skrox unit though.

 HoverBoy wrote:
It is the only spell, i can think of at the moment, that still cares about unit type.
Why wouldn't that answer be in that book's FAQ.

Or anything in Lore of Beasts, due to lore attribute. Not pertinant to skrox unless infantry+monstrous infantry ends up being cavalry or something...

No mixed unit exists that Wildheart would affect.

Maybe it will eventually but not yet.

HawaiiMatt wrote:

I'm not saying a unit of MI and IN remain IN. I'm saying that a unit Skink Cohorts specifically remain Infantry. Because that's what the rules imply.

Page 38 Lizardmen Army Book.
3rd Paragraph of Spawn-Kin.
Stomps and Thunderstomps are always resolved against Skinks (if all the skinks are slain, any excess hits are lost).

There you go. You must be infantry, beast or swarm to be stomped on, and you're given rules how to distribute the stomp hits against a combined unit.

13th spell FAQ says that you compare the 4D6 roll to the number of Infantry models in the unit. After reading the FAQ though, I was wrong about not making clan rats part. If the 4D6 roll is greater than the number of infantry, you remove all the infantry and place a clan rat unit. None infantry models are left behind, forming up 1" away from the new clan rat unit, with the survivors placed by the controlling player.

Furthermore, it looks like the Skaven FAQ about mixed units being unit type Unique has been removed. Just read through the 6 pages of skaven faq a few times and I cannot find the reference.

-Matt

Well, as the skink cohort troop type is infantry with the option to upgrade them with krox, I'm also assuming the unit remains infantry. BUT it seems like an assumption that a reasonable opponent could challenge, given that it isn't explicit. And without explicitly spelling out that the KroxInSkrox remain monstrous infantry, it opens up the question of whether they really get 3 supporting attacks. Guess I'll just plan to talk them over with my opponent beforehand in friendly games.

kooshlord wrote:
And without explicitly spelling out that the KroxInSkrox remain monstrous infantry, it opens up the question of whether they really get 3 supporting attacks. Guess I'll just plan to talk them over with my opponent beforehand in friendly games.

It is quite explicitly stated on page 90 that kroxigor that are part of a cohort are indeed MI, under troop type.

 HoverBoy wrote:

kooshlord wrote:
And without explicitly spelling out that the KroxInSkrox remain monstrous infantry, it opens up the question of whether they really get 3 supporting attacks. Guess I'll just plan to talk them over with my opponent beforehand in friendly games.

It is quite explicitly stated on page 90 that kroxigor that are part of a cohort are indeed MI, under troop type.

Ahh, I'll check that out. Thanks for the page ref, that helps!