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Makerbot Digitizer: Desktop 3D scanner goes on sale

Article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23795303

Makerbot site:
http://www.makerbot.com/

While $1500 isn't cheap the scanner and 3D printer will only go down in price as time goes on. Even now it might make sense for people if they plan on running multiple armies. The upfront cost is significant but once you have it going all you're paying for is plastic refills for the printer. I am sure the GW is dreading the day when this technology truly become affordable.

Dreading. For sure.

Maybe that's why we see so many paper/electronic publications this year... they're looking to see how much they can make on books/rules/supplements if models go away.

Well.. this kind of things make it much quicker for model templates to appear on the internet. But the scanned model files or home-spun copies will eventually pop out as torrents, it's really the 3d printer that is the limiting factor. I wouldn't say GW will lose all their business overnight, but the prices will probably come down, especially on ICs. However, mass-produced plastic will be cheaper than home-printed models.

Let's hope Apple gets there first. Then you can download single-use files for your printer from iTunes, and print the latest models at home. Well, at least if you have an access to a high-quality printer, that probably runs several thousands of bucks.

$1500 is still quite steep... I'm much more interested in publicly available 3D files.

Also, the MakerBot printer doesn't really have enough detail to do models. You're better off using Shapeways "ultra detail" frosted material for miniatures (which still is not perfect, but much better... and you don't have to buy a scanner or a printer).

And as prowla says, I envision most people downloading files to print out- rather than having to scan in their own models and the like (which necessitates having said model, after all, and likely having it in multiple poses, to boot!).

What? Dreading? I think not.

They will be able to raise the price and sell you a digigital file.

This means no stock, so no shipping issues, storage or other logistics. Sell people a product and have them do the manufacture!

They can sell you rebranded printing plastic (green stuff style) at a huge mark uo.

This only means GOOD things for GW.

So, in other words: Great News!

I'd like to see a legit platform on witch a companies could sell the 3D modles for their mini's, and then people with 3D printers could then print their armies out. Sort of like what Steam is for PC gameing, except for wargameing.

I could even see the files/programs that allow you to choose the options the model is equipped with before you print. I could see like paying $80-$60 per for something that allowed some bassic modleing/posing choices done before you print For that price it's bassicly giveing you every option you could ever want. They they could also do Starter Bundles allowing you to buy multiple of these program/files at once for when starting a army.

The fact it seems the 3D scanners are dropping in price faster then the 3D printers, means it's going to be realy importent for something like this to happen soon to help curb "Model pirating".

I doubt it will take off in a huge way. I just don't see it being economical to 3D print armies at home. Much the same as printing photos at home isn't economical either, most people are better off using a photo printing service as the price/quality makes so much more sense.

I don't see it taking off in a big way either. What it will do is make it easier for garage customizers to make models for themselves and maybe make some money selling to others.

Until someone comes up with a printing material that is as strong and convenient as plastic then it will remain a niche part of the hobby.

This is amazing to be sure, but for the most part its going to be a while.

The afforadble technologies (and fast - but more on that in a min) are not much more than novelties - due to quality.
"Look, we made our grandson a plastic dragon, for $20 in resin!".
Thats cool the first time, but eventually you just go to the dollar store.

Also, he 3d scanner has a resolution that is no where near what you want for gaming quality minis (100 microns or less) and has a problem with undercut details.

The materials and speed on these things are a limiting factor as well....hours for a single print, and materials priced by the cubic centimeter....again, they will get better....but it will take a long time.

Don't get me wrong, they WILL get better....but 3d printers are no where near where non-hobbiests think they are.

if i wanted a crappy and expensive imitation of a gw model, i have mantic for that. There's still nothing out there that can print to a miniature standard, and if there was it'd still cost many times more than conventiinal techniques.

Jes Goodwin said during the Enter the Citadel event that they already use 3D printers for rapid prototyping, and they'd like to do print on demand stuff in the future. He thinks 3D printers are a good 5-10 years from even coming close to what we see in plastics now, and I trust his word on that more than pretty much anyone else's.

Affordable 3d printing right...
Judging by ink prices not even regular printing is affordable right now.

 Lockark wrote:
I'd like to see a legit platform on witch a companies could sell the 3D modles for their mini's, and then people with 3D printers could then print their armies out. Sort of like what Steam is for PC gameing, except for wargameing.

I could see a system similar to how companies currently sell PDF print-and-play terrain products.

 cybogoblin wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
I'd like to see a legit platform on witch a companies could sell the 3D modles for their mini's, and then people with 3D printers could then print their armies out. Sort of like what Steam is for PC gameing, except for wargameing.

I could see a system similar to how companies currently sell PDF print-and-play terrain products.

We might eventually get there, but as some (including me) have pointed out - this is several years away.

Why? Speed and cost of materials. A mini of gaming quality takes 100 microns of less (most of the cheap printers are no where near this).

The cost of a successful print (yes, some are unsuccessful...and you thought printer jams were bad!) is between $4-8 a mini...and thats for a 28mm guy, much less a dred, mc or vehicle.

Speed is the other issue...some of the prints can take hours.

Personally, I like the idea more for custom or alternative parts...I think this part will be closer - as if you want something rare or that does not exist - this will be a good way to get it.
I have been following good quality printers for a while...and will be very excited when one gets close...(or less than $1000 for one that is in actual demonstrated production at 100 microns or less...no, kickstarter does not count).

So, in the long run do I think this might be a possibility? Yes.
Its going to be a while (think 5-20 years).

3d printer is at Staples (here in USA) for $999.99 & plastic colors start at $49.99 (15 colors to choose from)...

 Ramshackle_Curtis wrote:
What? Dreading? I think not.

They will be able to raise the price and sell you a digigital file.

This means no stock, so no shipping issues, storage or other logistics. Sell people a product and have them do the manufacture!

They can sell you rebranded printing plastic (green stuff style) at a huge mark uo.

This only means GOOD things for GW.

I think the possibly problematic thing (though I doubt it will be) is that this comes with a 3D scanner too. So presumably (at some point in the future) you couldn't just print, but copy-and-print. Realistically, copy-and-print creates rather inferior stuff even in 2D (try copying a 40K rulebook without some super-expensive equipment), so I don't see it happening without significant loss of quality in 3D anytime soon.

 krazynadechukr wrote:
3d printer is at Staples (here in USA) for $999.99 & plastic colors start at $49.99 (15 colors to choose from)...

You are correct, and it shows a great future. It can be a fun tool for making simple toys and other household objects.

This is also exciting in the fact that it has reached the consumer mass market level.

Long term, I do not know how well these will do (spending $1000 to print a toy that I could buy my kid at the dollar store) and will the market crash once the "cool" factor has worn off (similar to microscope and telescope purchases for kids). I hope the future is bright....as I want a good printer for about $500...

Its just not there yet, for the reasons I (and others) have stated, its slow, expensive consumables and the resolution is no where near what you need for mini quality (its 200 microns).

If you want to do good minis, look for something like this;
http://formlabs.com/

Again, 3d printers ARE cool...and in a few years, they will be worth it for the one off (which I can do now with shapeways, but its not convenient) parts and projects....and eventually, they might be good enough to print an entire squad or tank...but it will be a while.

Anyone really interested in this, I would suggest doing some research - its actually quite fascinating once you descend into the world of microns, closed spaces, hot plates and liquid resins - there is a lot cool stuff there - but like many technical topics - public perceptions (some people thought jurassic park was real) differ vastly from reality.

davethepak wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:
3d printer is at Staples (here in USA) for $999.99 & plastic colors start at $49.99 (15 colors to choose from)...

You are correct, and it shows a great future. It can be a fun tool for making simple toys and other household objects.

This is also exciting in the fact that it has reached the consumer mass market level.

Long term, I do not know how well these will do (spending $1000 to print a toy that I could buy my kid at the dollar store) and will the market crash once the "cool" factor has worn off (similar to microscope and telescope purchases for kids). I hope the future is bright....as I want a good printer for about $500...

Its just not there yet, for the reasons I (and others) have stated, its slow, expensive consumables and the resolution is no where near what you need for mini quality (its 200 microns).

If you want to do good minis, look for something like this;
http://formlabs.com/

Again, 3d printers ARE cool...and in a few years, they will be worth it for the one off (which I can do now with shapeways, but its not convenient) parts and projects....and eventually, they might be good enough to print an entire squad or tank...but it will be a while.

Anyone really interested in this, I would suggest doing some research - its actually quite fascinating once you descend into the world of microns, closed spaces, hot plates and liquid resins - there is a lot cool stuff there - but like many technical topics - public perceptions (some people thought jurassic park was real) differ vastly from reality.

I remember when dvd, heck vcrs, came out at first for $699.99.... just a few years later under $200..... now even cheaper.... this price point shall drop fast too.....

...except those were objects which could sell in real mass numbers for laid-back entertainment purposes, quite unlike 3d printers. the economy of scale simply isn't there. Not even "not there yet", it just isn't ever going to be 'there'.

@dave
Even their demo pics show the form1 falling just a bit shy of the level of detail we've grown used to in wargaming minis IMO. SL is the future of 3D printing for hobby uses but Form1 isn't quite there yet.
Price also makes it completely uneconomical for anything you could just buy off the shelf for the time being.

 willb2064 wrote:
I doubt it will take off in a huge way. I just don't see it being economical to 3D print armies at home. Much the same as printing photos at home isn't economical either, most people are better off using a photo printing service as the price/quality makes so much more sense.

I agree--with caveats. As a thought experiment, let's say a person already owns a 3D printer. He decides he wants to make a custom Imperial Guard army--with counts as infantry troopers.

1. Purchase a 3D design (50-100 dollars)
2. Print out a couple of sculpts (4-5 dollars)
3. Contract a molder to make a master and production (200ish)
4. Make 150 or fewer models (.50/model--say 100 troopers/50 dollars) I think molds generally degrade after this? I'm sure someone more educated or experienced could weigh in here.


So, given you own a printer, you're looking 300-400 dollars in for an army. That's not terrible--but I'm not sure if it would be worth the time/investment of the printer. Now, obviously, if 3d scanning technology continues along the same path--well...GW is going to have a tough time holding on to their physical IP.

Which, as I've stated before, I don't see how GW lives out another 10 years with their current business model. Between the advancement of technology driving casters, competition---and general price increases---I'm not sure where that logically leads to success.

Oh, look, it's this thread again.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/547762.page

And no, it's not gonna happen.

Perhaps someday but not today.

Makerbot is an FDM model maker that creates models by melting layers of plastic and squirting them through a nozzle as the nozzle moves in the XYZ, this FDM process even on the high end FDM machines is not up to the task of making miniatures.
There are only three printers on the market today that can print a surface that does not look like you sculpted it from toothpaste or that leave extensive stepping on the models surface. These printers run about $100K and require expensive materials (about $500 for a quart or so). It also takes a skilled operator to properly orient the parts for print so that the built lattus does not destroy the details. Furthermore it takes a skilled CAD designer to understand the limits of the process for the printer being used and how the model is best split to create the best results.

As of today, it costs about $200 for a 28mm scale multi part mini to be printed by a service bureau. Design will cost anywhere from $200 to $2500 depending on the person you contract with.

In ten years it may be a reality but right now you would need an extra $100K, a skilled operator and CAD sculptor as well as a clean room environment with UV shading to house your $100k investment. From a cost standpoint printing individual minis to use would be FAR too expensive. I use this service to proof my models and make masters for soft tooling and I can tell you, I would never purchase one of these machines at their current market price. It is far cheaper to use a service bureau and pay $200 per figure than it is to own the equipment.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Oh, look, it's this thread again.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/547762.page

And no, it's not gonna happen.

You know the thread you linked was 5 hours later than this one, right?