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 Peasant wrote:
Slays does not have its own action in this game other than describing casualties.

This is surprisingly on point.

It was bound to happen, I guess.

Casualties are slain, and slain models are casualties.

Neither way involves Ethereal.

Read the quotes from pages 52 and 103 listed above -the BRB says that KB doesn't wound. Since everyone agrees that Ethereal only blocks wounds, how can you still argue that it affects KB?

P52 also states that KB is an instant kill - meaning that it not causing wounds is explicit.

Slay/Slain
Shows up in the section of failing saves and removing models on page 51.
Shows up in Both lore of death and life in the test or die spells.
Oddly, absent from the lore of metal die on a 5+ spell.

Damage on the other hand, seems to only appear in killing blow.

As for how all this applies to ethereals? If slay or damage equates to the wounding process, then ethereal could be RAW immune to KB.

-Matt

It still doesn't rewrite the unit was slain. Damage can cover slain because damage is a broader term. Being slain is certainly a sub-category of being damaged. So is wounded for that matter. As such you can't say damage = wound or damage = slain. It's just clunky wording to try and rewrite it.

"if passed, the ward save prevents all damage from the Killing Blow."

Sounds cleaner than

"if passed, the ward save prevents all slaying from the Killing Blow."

Or "killing from the Killing Blow." Although similar, it makes me wonder if the weapon/ability is now broken and can't slay again.

I think you're getting hung up on a word that was put there because the alternatives sound stupid. At least in English.

If it said,

"if passed, the ward save prevents all wounds from the Killing Blow."

It would be a huge alarm bell. Especially since it never mentioned it caused wounds before that. But I think you can agree that being slain is a type of damage. Little d damage. Like harsh language or nuclear bombs are both damaging.

I'll give you an example, Random Movement says the unit doesn't have a Movement characteristic. yet it later says "when the model moves, first pivot..." There's just some limitations to the English language. Move is a general term for...movement, even though the model has no (capital M) Movement. You still have to use that word to define what is going on. Or jump through a lot of hoops saying "when the model Random Movements, first pivot..." Which again, sounds stupid.

fattymac04 wrote:
That is what we are saying, KB doesn't say it wounds, but slays and you remove the slain in the remove causalities phase
Because slayed models = slain as you have just said
Slay is not a rule, but refers to being basically dead/killed out right as i posted above.. etc... so no need of a page
no talk of wounds, nothing
it ignores armor and reg saves, but allows ward saves
KB does have its own action and it comes into effect on the to wound roll of a 6
and on that action it slays its opponent, which you remove in the remove casualties phase
Because that opponent is slain

This post is quite accurate.
I have stated often that slays is description and it does refer to the dead and being killed. (Thanks boomer for the research I was too lazy to find to quote pages)
If it was a rule or had a function in the game process slay would have/need a page and actual description.
KB does have the action on the '6' a slays describes the dead.
It should be obvious that it is a wounding attack because you rolled to wound. Do you know of a time that you roll to wound and don't use it.?
Do you ever roll dice not to use them.?
As I have stated, soo many times..KB is a result like d3 wounds only specific to all remaining wounds.
Which does make it possible to slay your opponent.
The only reason this is complicated is the stretch to change KB.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

DukeRustfield wrote:
It still doesn't rewrite the unit was slain. Damage can cover slain because damage is a broader term. Being slain is certainly a sub-category of being damaged. So is wounded for that matter. As such you can't say damage = wound or damage = slain. It's just clunky wording to try and rewrite it.

"if passed, the ward save prevents all damage from the Killing Blow."

Sounds cleaner than

"if passed, the ward save prevents all slaying from the Killing Blow."

Or "killing from the Killing Blow." Although similar, it makes me wonder if the weapon/ability is now broken and can't slay again.

I think you're getting hung up on a word that was put there because the alternatives sound stupid. At least in English.

If it said,

"if passed, the ward save prevents all wounds from the Killing Blow."

It would be a huge alarm bell. Especially since it never mentioned it caused wounds before that. But I think you can agree that being slain is a type of damage. Little d damage. Like harsh language or nuclear bombs are both damaging.

I'll give you an example, Random Movement says the unit doesn't have a Movement characteristic. yet it later says "when the model moves, first pivot..." There's just some limitations to the English language. Move is a general term for...movement, even though the model has no (capital M) Movement. You still have to use that word to define what is going on. Or jump through a lot of hoops saying "when the model Random Movements, first pivot..." Which again, sounds stupid.

There ya go...
Now you are getting it.
Slain is a general term. It in no way hints, or shows or directs you to ignore the wound that you caused when rolling to wound.
There is no argument that failing your ward when you meet the criteria that your model will die.
'Slay' does not redirect anything and is not its own rule or term. This is shown by its usage.
Now that you have come to terms that slay/slain does nothing it is just description, you will be able to see that KB causes wounds. Which should be obvious because you are rolling to wound.
It is not necessary to say when driving put the car into drive to drive. Well maybe for the very first time driver..
Or when rolling to wound roll to wound to wound. Well maybe to the 12 year old starting the game...
Look at it this way...KB causes all your remaining wounds. Again like d3 only all wounds .
After a successful roll to wound there are only so many things that can happen.
If you have a model with KB you save, you lose 1 wound or lose all your remaining wounds(of course not specifically stated that way). Those are the only options.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Niteware wrote:
Read the quotes from pages 52 and 103 listed above -the BRB says that KB doesn't wound. Since everyone agrees that Ethereal only blocks wounds, how can you still argue that it affects KB?

P52 also states that KB is an instant kill - meaning that it not causing wounds is explicit.

Incorrect..it says attacks that kill models outright..when you have 0 wounds you are killed. KB does kill a model regardless of the number of wounds and pg 52 is telling you to count all the wounds. It never says it doesn't wound.
Pg 103 addresses counting wounds in overkill....in fact it actually states ..."killing blow scores the same amount of wounds the slain character...
Again KB is referencing wounds, which is awfully strange since people are claiming it doesn't cause wounds.

KB causes wounds, non specific since the number of wounds is dependent upon the number on the profile.
Ethereal cannot be wounded by non magical sources.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kirsanth wrote:

 Peasant wrote:
Slays does not have its own action in this game other than describing casualties.

This is surprisingly on point.

It was bound to happen, I guess.

Casualties are slain, and slain models are casualties.

Neither way involves Ethereal.

You are correct.
But wrong on Ethereal.
Ethereal can be slain and can be casualties
From magic sources,

Once again you are referencing there points in the BRB that deal with Combat Resolution. If a model is slayed, how many wounds is it worth towards the combat res section? 1, 2 3 , 999? Thats why it specifically states that it "scores" not counts as causing. That is two different terms and they mean two different things. Also you are once again going back to making up rules.

example

Incorrect..it says attacks that kill models outright..when you have 0 wounds you are killed.

No where does it say that, you are making that up.

Please stop trolling and making things up

Let's look at a challenge with killing blow.
Count Johannas Von Blendmore "The Beast", Strigoi vampire charges into a unit of common goblins.
Rik Shiv, the goblin nasty skulker leaps out and shouts "surprise bitches!" and issues a challenge; Von Blendmore accepts.
Rik Shiv is WS2, has S3, and 2 attacks and an extra hand weapon. He's also got Always Strike First, and killing blow on the round he reveals.

Rik goes first, hits with 2 of his 3 attacks (on a 5+), and rolls two 6's to wound, scoring 2 killing blows.
Von Blendmore is screwed. He's got a 4+ regen thanks to the mortis engine, but cannot take regen saves vs killing blow. He normally has 4 wounds thanks to his blood line "Curse of the Revenant", but lost 2 wounds earlier in the battle to a miscast, and a Brain Bursta from an Orc shaman.

Von Blendmore has 2 wounds left, but 4 on his profile.
According to page 103, in the challenge each killing blow is worth the wounds on his profile. So it counts as 8.
But the overkill rule says you cannot score more than current wounds +5, so it reduced the 8 to 7.
For combat res, the 2 wound Strigoi gave up 7 points of combat res.

BTW, this did happen to my general, stupid goblin got the pair of 6's for dual killing blows, no save for you strigoi.

Neither Slay nor Damage gives Ethereals a backdoor out.
Add killing blow vs ethereals to the list of things that should be errata.

I was going to dispute this but it seems about right. The overkill rules explicitly state this. I suppose it's only fair. The example they use is +6 overkill I think, reduced to 5. That's a whole lot of wasted combat. Multiple KBs on a champ are about that, as it's extremely unlikely. More likely to have ward.

Being KB'd twice is like having your head cut off and then both your legs cut off on the return stroke. Anyone seeing that is likely to be a little scared as hell. The high wounds make it pretty logical (he just cut The Beast into 5 pieces before he could open his mouth to snarl).

DukeRustfield wrote:
I was going to dispute this but it seems about right. The overkill rules explicitly state this. I suppose it's only fair. The example they use is +6 overkill I think, reduced to 5. That's a whole lot of wasted combat. Multiple KBs on a champ are about that, as it's extremely unlikely. More likely to have ward.

Being KB'd twice is like having your head cut off and then both your legs cut off on the return stroke. Anyone seeing that is likely to be a little scared as hell. The high wounds make it pretty logical (he just cut The Beast into 5 pieces before he could open his mouth to snarl).

Example was 7 reduced to 6, as you can always get at least 6 (1 wound model +5 points of over kill).
To make this as complicated as possible, what happens when...
Konrad, has magic multiple wounds (2) sword, and Red Fury, gets heroic killing blow from a sphinx.

If killing blow does no wounds, then it doesn't trigger red fury; but how does multiple wounds interact with killing blow.
Let's assume he charges into Ogres, so he's got plenty of multi-wound models to slap.

-Matt

I already talked about this. For the wound to trigger, you would have to succeed at wound and fail save. You never get that far because KB interrupts it on a ROLL of wounding of 6, and then its rules take over and the unit is slain.

Otherwise, you'd always be doing multiple wounds for combat resolution.

So no, those units that feed off wounds get nothing.

 kirsanth wrote:
Not any that state that Ethereal stops a model from being slain from Killing Blow.

They really have, you're just being to obtuse to see it.

Not to let anyone infer otherwise, I have nothing against house rules and am an honest enough person to admit it.

Obviously, as ruling that KB somehow wounds ethereal creatures when not from a magic source is a house rule.

fattymac04 wrote:
Yes i agree, this is an issue that as RAW it works in a cheesy way, but RAI it shouldn't. This needs a FAQ. This thread has been nailed with trolls and troll baiting really bad for the last few pages, with a lot of assumptions.

No it really doesn't need a FAQ, or rather it really shouldn't.

Also, as I have said before you need to stop with the accusing people of being trolls and troll baiting. It's rude, disrespectful and childish. Nobody is trolling, you are being disagreed with. Learn the difference.

It would be nice if that wound thing about killing blow in the combat res section would actually be part of killing blow, but its there for a reason. The fact it says

"Each successful Killing blow scores the same amount of wounds the slain character has on its profile"
(pg. 103)

"Attacks that kill a model outright (made with a killing blow, say -- see page 72) count as having scored all the slain model's remaining wounds."
(pg. 52)

Shows that KB does not cause wounds, but slays as it says under KB, but for the purposes of combat resolution it scores the wounds. It specifically has its own little areas in both of these sections that point to the fact it only scores wounds for the resolution and the main resolution section even says it kills a model outright.

No, it merely tells you how to calculate those wounds. To calculate the wounds that have been done with killing blow.

And yes HawaiiMatt the KB rule adds the term "prevent all damage" but the term slay is used multiple times in the book, in that tense and past tense. Slay is used in the remove causalities step, and models killed outright.

Now for some answering of questions for slay and wounds n stuff

If a model loses its wounds it is slain
If a model is slayed, it is slain
If a model fails a save or die spell, it is slain

Notice in all these cases the model is slain and are removed as casualties

Instant Kills "some special attacks don't inflict wounds, but require models to be removed as casualties (after failing a LD or T test, for example). Where this is the case, not only are no saves of any kind allowed (unless specified otherwise), but the number of wounds on the victim's profile is completely irrelevant - just remove the model from play, and hope for better luck next time!" pg. 44

"with saving throws made or failed, you now need to remove the slain." pg. 51

"it is a good idea not to immediately remove models that are slain from the table, but instead temporarily place them next to their unit -- you will need to know how many casualties have been caused when working out who won the combat" pg. 51

"Attacks that kill a model outright (made with a killing blow, say -- see page 72) count as having scored all the slain model's remaining wounds."
pg. 52 (combat res section, but points that KB outright kills models, doesn't say it wounds them)

Combine this with the fact KB says it slays its opponent, not wound, I don't see the confusion with the steps of removing casualties and combat res or how KB works, it is clearly spelled out.

Look above where I have detailed the usage of the word "slay" in the book, slay is not a game term and is most often used when describing things that do wounds.

For the whole, well you have to roll to wound so it causes a wound thing.

We are not arguing the roll of a 6 would cause a wound and that wound would be negated by ethereal, But that it specifically says that on that to wound roll of a 6, the opponent is slayed. This is an effect of rolling the 6 that triggers KB to come into play, thus KB would instant kill the model meaning that wound that would be negated is negated because the model is dead. The reason why this works and doesn't count as doubling wounds or such is due to that combat resolution section that specifically says KB counts as scoring the models wound for the purpose of combat resolution. It is also set up this way due to the creatures KB does not work on, which would be any monstrous creatures, monsters, characters riding monsters/chariots (this was recently FAQ'ed), chariots, swarms.

Because it would work like this.
I got 10 hits against a unit of MI with my infantry unit that has KB
of those 10 hits, 7 wound
of those 7 wounds, 3 were 6's
Which against a valid target (infantry, cavalry, characters on foot or reg mounted, warbeasts) it would trigger kB and slay them outright

Thanks for laying it out... lets see if you can somehow ignore this again.

But since they are MI the KB effect does not work

So where are you getting your wound from? Once again, it says in the BRB only that killing blow is effective against infantry, cavalry and warbeasts. Can you provide me a page reference where it says that killing blow is not in effect? Or where it switches off against such targets?

No where am i saying that those 6's never counted for wounds, but that KB is an effect that triggers. It just you can't wound something that is dead.

It either replaces the wound or it does not, elsewise you would have to make saving throws for that wound and remove that wound before effecting the killing blow. A Character would have to make any saves for the wound caused and then would be able to make ward saves against the killing blow portion....

And yes effects work on Ethereal due to the FAQ making Unstable work , and it never says magical effects.

It does say magical effects, learn to english. It's a list

It says:

Ethereal creatures can only be wounded by spells, magical attacks and magic weapons or effects.

Not

Ethereal creatures can only be wounded by spells, magical attacks, magic weapons, and effects.

Because before that FAQ, people were arguing that Ethereal were immune to unstable because it says,

Unstable:
"Unstable units that lose a combat suffer one extra wound for every point by which they lose the combat, with no saves of any kind permitted against these wounds." pg. 78

Ethereal:
"Ethereal creatures can only be wounded by spells, magical attacks and magic weapons or effects." pg. 68

Nowhere in the Unstable rule does it make a point to say it works on Ethereal, or that those wounds are magical, it just says they take extra wounds for every point they loss the combat by. Thus the logic implied that Ethereal was immune to those wounds, except the fact that those wounds were caused by an effect that triggers when it lost combat. This began the whole effect is supposed to be magical argument, and GW came out with the FAQ that says that unstable works on Ethereal.

Why do you think the clarification was needed? Because unstable is not a magical effect, but it is an effect that ethereal have a specific liability to.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

DukeRustfield wrote:
I already talked about this. For the wound to trigger, you would have to succeed at wound and fail save. You never get that far because KB interrupts it on a ROLL of wounding of 6, and then its rules take over and the unit is slain.

Otherwise, you'd always be doing multiple wounds for combat resolution.

So no, those units that feed off wounds get nothing.

I've asked multiple times how that works out against monstrous infantry. If the wound has been replaced with the killing blow effect (the rule takes over) and killing blow is only effective against Infantry, Cavalry, and Warbeasts, but in no place can I see that it is not in effect, where is the wound coming from?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:


I'd actually like to see the rules for "Slays" and "Damage". Since KB doesn't mention wounds or remove from play, all we have to do is figure out the rule effects of Slays and Damage, and the rule will be crystal clear.

-Matt

I've done it for slay. I'll help this thread out again by providing one important usage of the term damage from the BRB

BRB p3, models and units, subsection "Characteristics of models"

WOUNDS

"This shows how much damage a creature can take before it....."




Automatically Appended Next Post:

fattymac04 wrote:
That is what we are saying, KB doesn't say it wounds, but slays and you remove the slain in the remove causalities phase
Because slayed models = slain as you have just said
Slay is not a rule, but refers to being basically dead/killed out right as i posted above.. etc... so no need of a page
no talk of wounds, nothing
it ignores armor and reg saves, but allows ward saves
KB does have its own action and it comes into effect on the to wound roll of a 6
and on that action it slays its opponent, which you remove in the remove casualties phase
Because that opponent is slain

I've listed above the usage of slay, it didn't come out in your sides favour. Quite the opposite actually.

Once again, tell me how MI take a wound when KB "comes into effect" which is ineffective against them but at no point does it say it doesn't come into effect.

BooMeRLiNSKi wrote:
It does say magical effects, learn to english. It's a list

It says:

Ethereal creatures can only be wounded by spells, magical attacks and magic weapons or effects.

Not

Ethereal creatures can only be wounded by spells, magical attacks, magic weapons, and effects.

You know, the interesting thig is that (assuming the first sentence is accurate to the rule book) the sentence is grammatically incorrect. At the very least, there should be a comma after "magical attacks." (Based upon the MLA style manual.)

fattymac04 wrote:
That is what we are saying, KB doesn't say it wounds, but slays and you remove the slain in the remove causalities phase
Because slayed models = slain as you have just said
Slay is not a rule, but refers to being basically dead/killed out right as i posted above.. etc... so no need of a page
no talk of wounds, nothing
it ignores armor and reg saves, but allows ward saves
KB does have its own action and it comes into effect on the to wound roll of a 6
and on that action it slays its opponent, which you remove in the remove casualties phase
Because that opponent is slain

Again slays is not an action though.
It doesn't just 'slay'. It slays regardless of the number of wounds. 1 to 50. Doesn't matter. There is even reference to wounds in the sentence.
You are confusing the real world definition of slays in with the gaming definition and in game process.
Because of this you making an incorrect conclusion. KB does not say remove from play or remove as a casualty. They took the time to reference regardless of the number of wounds.
At no point are you told to ignore or replace the roll to wound.
The idea that the roll to wound doesn't count is ridiculous. There is no instruction to ddo so.
That roll to would d determines if you cause 1 wound to a model that does not meet KB criteria or all remaining wounds to the model that meets the criteria.

 Peasant wrote:
That roll to would d determines if you cause 1 wound to a model that does not meet KB criteria or all remaining wounds to the model that meets the criteria.

Sure, if that is what the rules stated.
They state that the model is slain regardless of wounds, not slain by removing remaining wounds.

If you needed a 7 to wound and rolled a 6, KB would still apply.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BooMeRLiNSKi wrote:
They really have, you're just being to obtuse to see it.

I do see your house rules and consider you obtuse for claiming they are in the book.

I am firmly in the Killing Blow triggering against Ethereal's camp.

There is nothing in the Ethereal Rule that says you cannot roll to wound, merely that Ethereal units willl ignore any wounds caused. Killing blow as stated before does not cause wounds when it triggers, it adds an additional slay effect, which is not ignored by the Ethereal model.

That said, I have a further question.

Does the Opal Amulet allow for a save against Killing Blow. Killing Blow as we all know specifically allows for a Ward Save.
The Opal Amulet provides a 4+ Ward Save against the first wound suffered by the bearer.

By my reading of the rules here, because Killing Blow does not cause a wound, it wouldn't trigger a requirement of the Opal Amulet, therefore Killing Blow would totally bypass the Opal Amulet. Correct?

EDIT:

One further Killing Blow Question. Lets say a Bretonnian Lord with Heroic Killing Blow, and the Sword of Swift Slaying charges into a horde of White Lions with the Banner of the World Dragon, and he manages to Trigger an HKB on the Elf Mage.
Because Killing Blow Slays but allows a Ward Save, and the Banner of the World Dragon provides a 2++ against all wounds caused by ...magic weapons... Is the High Elf Mage allowed to take a 2++ banner save, or must he use his regular save.

Note: If the Latter, Blood Letters would actually be able to kill some elfs.

EDIT 2:

Looking at the High Elf Armybook, note the Golden Crown- which has simliar wounding to the Opal Amulet, EXCEPT it explicity states that it protects against Killing Blow, leading me to believe that the regular Opal Amulet does not, and neither does Banner of the World Dragon against Magical HKB.

KB and HKB have a prerequisite; a roll of a 6 to wound.

That means that a successful roll to wound is required, as a failed roll to wound would not trigger the effect.

Therefore, Non magic KB and HKB will not work on ethereal.

As for the BoTWD question, you pick either. Because they are two separate ward saves.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
KB and HKB have a prerequisite; a roll of a 6 to wound.

Correct.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
That means that a successful roll to wound is required

Page number?

 kirsanth wrote:

 Peasant wrote:
That roll to would d determines if you cause 1 wound to a model that does not meet KB criteria or all remaining wounds to the model that meets the criteria.

Sure, if that is what the rules stated.
They state that the model is slain regardless of wounds, not slain by removing remaining wounds.

If you needed a 7 to wound and rolled a 6, KB would still apply.

It is what the rule states. That is what the game process states.
You roll to wound.
You don't need a 7 to wound. You need a 6. 6 always wounds against everyone.
you rolled to wound and wounded with a 6. We have been through all this.
Slain regardless of the number of wounds.
Not slain regardless of wounds.
. Two different sentences.

 Peasant wrote:
You need a 6.

Correct.

 Peasant wrote:
6 always wounds against everyone.

Irrelevant to anything in this discussion.

 kirsanth wrote:

 Peasant wrote:
You need a 6.

Correct.

 Peasant wrote:
6 always wounds against everyone.

Irrelevant to anything in this discussion.

 kirsanth wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
That means that a successful roll to wound is required

Page number?

If you don't meet the prerequisite for something, then it doesn't trigger. You can't fail to wound yet activate something which has a prerequisite of wounding.

Rolling a 6 is the pre-req, not wounding.

The fact that a 6 currently also wounds anything has no bearing on the rule.

First off no where does it say you need a successful to wound roll for KB to work, it just says on the to wound roll of a 6.

Also once again, point to where KB causes wounds, and don't include the combat res sections because that has been covered. I'll give you a hint, nowhere does KB say it causes wounds. The only time it counts as causing wounds is for scoring for combat resolution. That is it.

fattymac04 wrote:
First off no where does it say you need a successful to wound roll for KB to work, it just says on the to wound roll of a 6.

Also once again, point to where KB causes wounds, and don't include the combat res sections because that has been covered. I'll give you a hint, nowhere does KB say it causes wounds. The only time it counts as causing wounds is for scoring for combat resolution. That is it.

This is getting tiresome.
It does nor need to say you 'need' a successful wound. That is the game process.

Of course it must be successful.
You rolled to wound and a 6 equal success. The chart says so.
A saving throw protects you from all damage.
Your wards saves protects you.
You don't get to ignore the game process for a benefit.
Point to where it says you ignore your roll to wound.
We have established that 'slays' is just a descriptive term not a rule or process
KB says neither you do cause a wound or you do not cause a wound.
The game process leads to the logical conclusion that it does through all the game processes stated before.

Does the Opal Amulet allow for a save against Killing Blow. Killing Blow as we all know specifically allows for a Ward Save.
The Opal Amulet provides a 4+ Ward Save against the first wound suffered by the bearer.

Just like Red Fury, just like Charmed Shield, no wound is caused by KB.

DukeRustfield wrote:
Just like Red Fury, just like Charmed Shield, no wound is caused by KB.

I'll keep asking, how are you wounding MI and MC with a Killing Blow roll of 6, being that it says that it is "only effective against infantry, cavalry and warbeasts" and not that it is not in effect?

BooMeRLiNSKi wrote:
[
I'll keep asking

You remind me of that scene from the old tv show Cheers. "What color is the sky in your world, troll?" You haven't the slightest clue how the game works, how basic logic works, or apparently the English language. I tend to believe you're part of North Korean conspiracy to make the decadent Western peoples more stupid by trying to coerce us to answer nonsensical questions, over and over and over and over and over. You won't trick us, you commie stool! Go back to the shadows! /Gandalf

BooMeRLiNSKi wrote:

DukeRustfield wrote:
Just like Red Fury, just like Charmed Shield, no wound is caused by KB.

I'll keep asking, how are you wounding MI and MC with a Killing Blow roll of 6, being that it says that it is "only effective against infantry, cavalry and warbeasts" and not that it is not in effect?

You are asking the wrong question, and one that is nonsensical.

The to-wound roll of six causes a successful wound.
The to-wound roll of six triggers a KB.

Those are two different things caused by the same roll.
KB states that it cannot affect MI/MC, so the second trigger fails.
This has no bearing on the first.

Nothing in KB states that the roll to-wound needs to succeed even.
The strawman that people keep poking is that a six DOES cause a wound in this edition.

 Peasant wrote:

It does nor need to say you 'need' a successful wound. That is the game process.

Of course it must be successful.

But it doesn't need to be successful.

A Saurus Scar Vet with the Steggadon Helm is Toughness 6.
He charges into a block of Tomb King Tomb Guard (S4).
The Liche priest casts D'Jafs Incantation of Cursed Blades; which gives the target killing blow. If it already has killing blow or heroic killing blow, it triggers on a 5+.

The Tombguard swing, and with S4 would normally need a 6+ to wound (vs T6)
Against the Steghelm Scar Vet, he is killing blowed on a 5+, even though that is not a successful wound. The requirement isn't a successful wound, only a specific number on the roll to wound.

-Matt