Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Tfg in our local meta is a waac Tyranid player. He adds inches to his movements, makes up rules as he goes, breaks the agreed points limits, alters rules for his benefit, and has gotten away with it thus far because we don't know the 'Nid codex. You know, him.
Needless to say, we've done some reading and have taken it upon ourselves to humble him.

His favs include Swarmlord, Hive Tyrant, Doom, 3x Zoanthropes, 2x Tervigon, 2x Mawloc, a couple Termagants and a few Ripper Swarms at ~1500.
We usually play 1000-1500 depending on time constraints.

What I'm looking at fielding is as follows at 1250;
HQ - Chaos Lord, SoC, Blight Grenades, MoN, BBoS, LC - 155 (w/ Cultists)

Troops - Chaos Cultists x35, 30x Autogun, 3x Flamer - 195
Plague Marines, 10xMarine, 2x Plasma Gun - 270

Fast Attack - Heldrake (Baleflamer) - 170
Heldrake (Baleflamer) - 170

Heavy Support - Forgefiend (Ectoplasma Cannons) - 175
Havocs, 4x Autocannon - 115

Think it'll work? I'm not normally a heldrakes kinda guy, but he's just asking for it. The cultists are to achieve a tarpit, I've just gotta be careful to catch what I want with 'em.
Was thinking on a twin-fist Helbrute, but figured the Forgefiend added versatility the Helbrute didn't have. Plus, worried about Smash.
Thoughts on Ecto Cannons vs Hades?

Thanks, folks!

Well, it won't work for Chaos armies, but something that would dramatically help with this list is adding Coteaz on a quad gun with 3 servitors with MM. His I've been expecting you rule will either let you get a ton of free shots at whatever is arriving or force him to deep strike in 12" away from Coteaz.

With smart placement of the remainder of your army, this will force him to stay away, buying you precious time against those monstrous creatures.

Using Chaos, cultists are not going to do much. However, take Typhus, make them zombies and then use them to tarpit his Monstrous Creatures for turns on end. I would daresay proxy your current Nurgle Lord as Typhus.

I would ditch the forgefiend. His MCs will flip those over without breaking a sweat.

Any way you slice it, you are going to struggle against this list. It will take great gameplay from you while he can just stumble along.

Other things:
Add an ADL with Lascannon. This can give you a chance to instant death the Doom when he comes out. Possibly add a bastion. Place the Havocs inside with a small squad manning the gun on top.

Add rhinos for your plague marines. This is non-conventional, but it protects them from the Doom's power.

Hellbruts, Defilers, and Forgefiends are not going to last long against his MCs.

Heldrakes will help since the only thing I see that can fly is a hive tyrant.

Ignore the Swarm Lord at first and kill the Tervigons so you can hopefully make his spawned bugs go pop.

Kill the Doom immediately. Immediately.

I would look at his list points.

With the models you yust mentioned him taking its 1510 points minimum.

Thats with minimum brood sizes and not a single upgrade annywhere walking everything and no guards.

It's off topic, I know, but..

A lot of what he does sounds like cheating. Why play against him at all?
Beating him in the game will only make him have to cheat harder in order to win. Refusing to play him if he plays like this might force him to reconsider his style. I know its a totally awesome feeling to beat someone who's cheating, but I'm not sure how that would help. Unless you just want to beat him and don't care if he will change anything about his behaviour, in which case, go ahead.

Being a nids player, it makes me sad that you have a bad experience with a rotten apple. Most nids players are tactically very good players because the codex is frankly quite limited on competitive builds. That said, the nid list is not overly strong IMO. The best counter to the units you've mentioned is going to be heldrakes, obliterators, dual plasma plague marines, and a winged prince. Stay out of cc, vector strike the mc's to death, flame the crap out of gribblies and mc's alike (3+ saves only), plasma/ac/las/etc with oblits, etc. take out the tervigons first, follow with the tyrants/slord, then take care of the zoans. Doom is a pain, but one s8+ shot is all it takes.

The other strategy? Remeasure his moves, ask to see the codex for everything, and generally make the game so slow that he might change playstyle to not be such a douche.

Oh, and ask for a copy of his army list, in advance if necessary! V happy to check it for points value.

good points from djm45. Also, watch his psychic power rolls carefully. If he has purchased one extra psychic power for a tervigon, then he gets to claim two in total. Note hat he can't use psychic powers on the turn when he arrives from reserves, if he's bringing one tervie on that way (it's in the NID FAQ.

Remember, too, you don't have to engage the swarmlord, and if it's a flyrant, two heldrakes should bring it down.

If it makes you feel better, the nipper played a tourney with his nids recently, and lost to an older CSM player (two heldrakes, forgefiend, maulerfiend) who insisted on 3 up saves in cover, and used Daemon Forge to reroll around three or four times. So blame the player, not the species!

Drop the tervigons first. Once they die, it not only drops a massive chunks of synapse but deals wounds to all termagant units. The zoanthropes and swarmlord can be annoying but slow without a spore. Zombies can be great tarp pits but try to spread them out and cover the board. Not only will it restrict his movement, the mawlocs large blast will but less models. Also remember cover saves can be taken vs the dooms leech and mawlocs tunneling attack.

Hope this helps, best of luck

As a Nid player there is only one thing that I fear and that is templates, specifically flamer type ones.

His army is mostly monstrous creatures so power weapons or heavy strength weapons will do it.

Stay above ground level or next to cover so the Mawlocs dont chew you up and you should be fine.

One thing I have to add is that even though transports as a whole became worse in 6th, they are still great against nids. The reason being is that, barring a dev tyrant, nothing is going to be popping your transports and assaulting you the same turn. Transports will almost always be giving you at least an extra turn to play with against nids. Dual plasma plague marines in rhinos will be death for him.

Mayk0l wrote:
It's off topic, I know, but..

A lot of what he does sounds like cheating. Why play against him at all?
Beating him in the game will only make him have to cheat harder in order to win. Refusing to play him if he plays like this might force him to reconsider his style. I know its a totally awesome feeling to beat someone who's cheating, but I'm not sure how that would help. Unless you just want to beat him and don't care if he will change anything about his behaviour, in which case, go ahead.

This. All this.

 Laughingcarp wrote:
Tfg in our local meta is a waac Tyranid player. He adds inches to his movements, makes up rules as he goes, breaks the agreed points limits, alters rules for his benefit, and has gotten away with it thus far because we don't know the 'Nid codex. You know, him.
Needless to say, we've done some reading and have taken it upon ourselves to humble him.

His favs include Swarmlord, Hive Tyrant, Doom, 3x Zoanthropes, 2x Tervigon, 2x Mawloc, a couple Termagants and a few Ripper Swarms at ~1500.
We usually play 1000-1500 depending on time constraints.

What I'm looking at fielding is as follows at 1250;
HQ - Chaos Lord, SoC, Blight Grenades, MoN, BBoS, LC - 155 (w/ Cultists)

Troops - Chaos Cultists x35, 30x Autogun, 3x Flamer - 195
Plague Marines, 10xMarine, 2x Plasma Gun - 270

Fast Attack - Heldrake (Baleflamer) - 170
Heldrake (Baleflamer) - 170

Heavy Support - Forgefiend (Ectoplasma Cannons) - 175
Havocs, 4x Autocannon - 115

Think it'll work? I'm not normally a heldrakes kinda guy, but he's just asking for it. The cultists are to achieve a tarpit, I've just gotta be careful to catch what I want with 'em.
Was thinking on a twin-fist Helbrute, but figured the Forgefiend added versatility the Helbrute didn't have. Plus, worried about Smash.
Thoughts on Ecto Cannons vs Hades?

Thanks, folks!

I dont mean to stick up for a cheater by any means, however DoM and Zoanthropes are bad for you....Zoanthropes will eat your Forgefiend for breakfast, because their Warp Lance is an Assault 1, Lance, Str 10 Ap 1...I Exlploded 3 Leman Russ' with 2 of them in a game yesterday actually and I hardly ever use Zoeys to be honest, but they are deadly especially coming down in a POD. DoM...Anti-Infantry essentially, keep your guys distant because as I'm sure you know, the more wounds he causes by making your dudes take Leadership Tests on 3d6 every shooting phase, he will get stronger and if he pops cataclysm while that gak is at least a 6, that will be bad...lol

CSM vs Tyranids, you need some good Daemon allies, honestly I'd say. I do play Chaos and I love heldrakes, so I'm down with those, but You need that CD Soulgrinder...it would help against flyrants because he has Skyfire.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Mayk0l wrote:
It's off topic, I know, but..

A lot of what he does sounds like cheating. Why play against him at all?
Beating him in the game will only make him have to cheat harder in order to win. Refusing to play him if he plays like this might force him to reconsider his style. I know its a totally awesome feeling to beat someone who's cheating, but I'm not sure how that would help. Unless you just want to beat him and don't care if he will change anything about his behaviour, in which case, go ahead.

This. All this.

I have to agree with these guys. Beating a player who cheats on a regular bases probably won't get him to change his style. Personally i think you should tell him how you feel about his play and if gets defensive about it just don't play with him.

Of course if taking the high road is not really your style I might suggest pairing him against any of your local DE players for a few games and see just how lackluster his list is even with cheating. Or try running more armour in your list, maybing trading the havocs for a predator and putting more guys in transports. Just be sure to take out his zoans first and after that he will have a hard time finding things to deal with your armour and flyers.

Owl