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 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Not necessarily. Reinforcements may arrive, or they can surroundings as a weapon.

Even if he has lost, is he to order his men to lie down and await death? The IoM doesn't quite think that way. If death is certain, they will use everything to their disposal to kill as much of the enemy as possible, for the Emperor and all that.

As I said before, if your opponents got guns and you don’t and retreating for resupplying isn’t an option, then you just lost the game buddy. No really, it’s just simple as that. They enemy would kill every last one of your soldiers before they get the chance to stick those blades into their soft bellies.

Only if you are stupid enough to charge a gun line

I think he's talking about the people with guns coming to you.

Even better. Hide in narrow spaces; guns aren't that effective in close quarters.

Grenades and flamethrowers are.

Not really. Still needs some distance away for them to be safely used. They are still very dangerous, however.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
True, but that takes time, and you have to get it to the power station first. Knives don't quite have that problem.

No, they have the inherent problem that they break faster than a lasgun does.

After only a few uses, the knife might be dulled to the point of being almost useless against a Necron or Ork. A lasgun is good for far more shots than a knife is for stabs.

So know one cares that we ALREADY have basically monomolecular knives that can take abuse? What happens when you make chainsaw teeth with this technique and give it thousands of RPM? How about adding a power field on top of that? The knife I mentioned could already deal damage to things that would survive nukes, but that? That would rip them apart.

Who would want a monomolecular knife when they can have a chainsword? Everything that cuts is cooler with a chainsaw blade, when you are in the 40K universe. Even enough to offset the huge change of self-inflicted death!

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
So know one cares that we ALREADY have basically monomolecular knives that can take abuse?

The Imperium has durable mono knives as well, according to FFG. They're expensive items that are not available to the common citizen though. Most knives wielded by humans in 40k are still just sharpened pieces of steel.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Who would want a monomolecular knife when they can have a chainsword?

Chainswords are monomolecular. I mentioned how damn strong that makes them.

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
Chainswords are monomolecular. I mentioned how damn strong that makes them.

Being monomolecular does not increase their durability.

Ah, missed that part.

See? Even cooler.

Being monomolecular does not increase their durability.

I would warrant a Chainfists teeth are plenty durable, considering what it can do.

 Melissia wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
Chainswords are monomolecular. I mentioned how damn strong that makes them.

Being monomolecular does not increase their durability.

When you make chainsaws with teeth made of that, with thousands of revs per minute, it applies at least 50 times more force and you don't even have to swing the sword. The chainsaw teeth do all the work.

 Melissia wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
True, but that takes time, and you have to get it to the power station first. Knives don't quite have that problem.

No, they have the inherent problem that they break faster than a lasgun does.

After only a few uses, the knife might be dulled to the point of being almost useless against a Necron or Ork. A lasgun is good for far more shots than a knife is for stabs.

Which it cannot do, until it gets to the recharging station. A knife may help it get there.

I'm not saying knives are better, just that it's useful to have. The consensus here appears to be that having a melee weapon is foolish. It really isn't.

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
So know one cares that we ALREADY have basically monomolecular knives that can take abuse? What happens when you make chainsaw teeth with this technique and give it thousands of RPM? How about adding a power field on top of that? The knife I mentioned could already deal damage to things that would survive nukes, but that? That would rip them apart.

Look it up. Surgical Scalpel blades are not that durable, with the majority being used once then disposed of as they become dull and cannot withstand the forces required to resharpen them. They are very sharp but not suitable to cut through anything but soft tissue as they are fragile and would break under the larger forces required to cut through bone, let alone ceramic armour plates, which cannot survive a conventional nuclear blast, let alone a thermonuclear on.

So I fail to see how a scalpel can damage anything which a nuke cannot. Unless it happens to be a person hiding in an underground bunker with your scalpel wielding soldier in there too.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
So know one cares that we ALREADY have basically monomolecular knives that can take abuse? What happens when you make chainsaw teeth with this technique and give it thousands of RPM? How about adding a power field on top of that? The knife I mentioned could already deal damage to things that would survive nukes, but that? That would rip them apart.

Look it up. Surgical Scalpel blades are not that durable, with the majority being used once then disposed of as they become dull and cannot withstand the forces required to resharpen them. They are very sharp but not suitable to cut through anything but soft tissue as they are fragile and would break under the larger forces required to cut through bone, let alone ceramic armour plates, which cannot survive a conventional nuclear blast, let alone a thermonuclear on.

So I fail to see how a scalpel can damage anything which a nuke cannot. Unless it happens to be a person hiding in an underground bunker with your scalpel wielding soldier in there too.

There's an astronomical level of pressure on the business end of that monomolecular edge friend. Void Dragon showed it's about 1/5 the pressure of the initial (like a nanosecond at max intensity) 300,000,000K explosion. I did the same calcs and got the same numbers.
Those synthetic diamond scalpels are marvels of engineering. They can be used for a month and not break if you're lucky. You look that up.
It doesn't take a lot of force to cut bone with that kind of edge bro. To say the least, damn it's scary how easily those knives go through. They go through bone like a meat cleaver through warm butter.
Not dying and being unwounded are very different. I can take a claymore through my gut and not die instantly. Am I unwounded? What do you think?
You need to read more carefully before starting an argument with things established earlier in the thread friend. You're supposed to at least read the last two pages.

Surprised this thread has gone on as long as it has.

There's 1 and only 1 reason to the OP's question: Rule of Cool.

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
So know one cares that we ALREADY have basically monomolecular knives that can take abuse? What happens when you make chainsaw teeth with this technique and give it thousands of RPM? How about adding a power field on top of that? The knife I mentioned could already deal damage to things that would survive nukes, but that? That would rip them apart.

Look it up. Surgical Scalpel blades are not that durable, with the majority being used once then disposed of as they become dull and cannot withstand the forces required to resharpen them. They are very sharp but not suitable to cut through anything but soft tissue as they are fragile and would break under the larger forces required to cut through bone, let alone ceramic armour plates, which cannot survive a conventional nuclear blast, let alone a thermonuclear on.

So I fail to see how a scalpel can damage anything which a nuke cannot. Unless it happens to be a person hiding in an underground bunker with your scalpel wielding soldier in there too.

There's an astronomical level of pressure on the business end of that monomolecular edge friend. Void Dragon showed it's about 1/5 the pressure of the initial (like a nanosecond at max intensity) 300,000,000K explosion. I did the same calcs and got the same numbers.
Those synthetic diamond scalpels are marvels of engineering. They can be used for a month and not break if you're lucky. You look that up.
It doesn't take a lot of force to cut bone with that kind of edge bro. To say the least, damn it's scary how easily those knives go through. They go through bone like a meat cleaver through warm butter.
Not dying and being unwounded are very different. I can take a claymore through my gut and not die instantly. Am I unwounded? What do you think?
You need to read more carefully before starting an argument with things established earlier in the thread friend. You're supposed to at least read the last two pages.

Yet powerarmour offers reliable protection against such blades so their actual usefulness in the setting does not reflect your values.

If you can somehow get past the joints you can do some damage. Powered Armor is just high tech platemail, after all. Fully armored knights back then weren't invincible.

There's also the fact that such blades may be sheathed in a power-field, which makes of a mockery of powered armor.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
If you can somehow get past the joints you can do some damage. Unlikely for IG to do so, but quite likely for something like an Eldar.

There's also the fact that such blades may be sheathed in a power-field, which makes of a mockery of powered armor.

My point was that the TheSaintofKilllers's numbers do not seem to apply for the setting.
This might be because the idea of a monomolecular blade has other problems in practice or simply because GW likes to throw around words which do not make that much sense in context( depleted Deuterium for bolters...*coughs*). Of course, if you can make a knive's edge monomolecular then why not add a monomolecular tip to a bullet?

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
When you make chainsaws with teeth made of that, with thousands of revs per minute, it applies at least 50 times more force and you don't even have to swing the sword. The chainsaw teeth do all the work.

That has nothing to do with the fact that something being monomolecular DOES NOT MAKE IT MORE DURABLE. Obsidian is capable of being that sharp. Doesn't make it more durable.

Also, stop making up statistics. Making gak up and claiming that it's true doesn't make it true, no matter how hard you try.

Swing a chainblade into anything with any resistance and it will break, monomolecular teeth or not. That's why chainsaws aren't actually that good for massacres, even in Texas.

Guys, stop applying realistic physics to Warhammer, you'll break it.

I don't deny that in 40k, we have cool things that don't make sense. I just wish people would stop using fake science and made up statistics to justify it.

Sometimes, a chainsword is just fething cool for its own sake even if it'd be monstrously terrible IRL.

KingDeath wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
If you can somehow get past the joints you can do some damage. Unlikely for IG to do so, but quite likely for something like an Eldar.

There's also the fact that such blades may be sheathed in a power-field, which makes of a mockery of powered armor.

My point was that the TheSaintofKilllers's numbers do not seem to apply for the setting.
This might be because the idea of a monomolecular blade has other problems in practice or simply because GW likes to throw around words which do not make that much sense in context( depleted Deuterium for bolters...*coughs*). Of course, if you can make a knive's edge monomolecular then why not add a monomolecular tip to a bullet?

Well, monomolecular projectiles already exist in the form of shuriken rounds. Which are used by a race who are much more advanced than the IoM. So I would say the reason why you can't add a monomolecular tip on a bullet is due to the cost and difficulty of manufacture. A bullet is a lot smaller and much more expendable than a knife, after all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
I don't deny that in 40k, we have cool things that don't make sense. I just wish people would stop using fake science and made up statistics to justify it.

Sometimes, a chainsword is just fething cool for its own sake even if it'd be monstrously terrible IRL.

Yeah, irl a chainsaw / chainsword is a terrible weapon, since the blood and chunks of meat tend to block the mechanics. Since it's so bloody cool though, it is permitted to use suspension of disbelief to exist.

Swing a chainblade into anything with any resistance and it will break, monomolecular teeth or not. That's why chainsaws aren't actually that good for massacres, even in Texas.

Though I doubt that Chain-weapon blades are equivalent to something bought from Home Depot. I would assume that if 40K were a real setting, the reason that chain-weapons are still used is that the 40K effects we would envision from a modern chainsaw being used as a weapon are irrelevant, or at least very small.

If you add enough future-tech to the engine and teeth of a chainsaw, it's quite possible that the intention is that it will bite into/cut through the target fast enough to not just be kicked away by it's own rotational force. Otherwise it would be discarded as a horrible invention.

 Melissia wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
When you make chainsaws with teeth made of that, with thousands of revs per minute, it applies at least 50 times more force and you don't even have to swing the sword. The chainsaw teeth do all the work.

That has nothing to do with the fact that something being monomolecular DOES NOT MAKE IT MORE DURABLE. Obsidian is capable of being that sharp. Doesn't make it more durable.

Also, stop making up statistics. Making gak up and claiming that it's true doesn't make it true, no matter how hard you try.

Never did I say it was more durable. Those statistics arent "made up". Whenever you apply the factors to an edge I mentioned you get dramatically more force.

All I can say to this surprisingly LONG thread is that warfare has gotten to the point in the 40k universe that anything tough enough to get through all the long distance flack out on the battlefield can probably get through to melee range. And at that point a thunder hammer doesn't hurt

Lets be honest though, its 40'k. ALL forms of combat are popular. If someone thought of an idea to spoon people to death im sure it would be adopted by at least one faction at some point.

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:

There's an astronomical level of pressure on the business end of that monomolecular edge friend. Void Dragon showed it's about 1/5 the pressure of the initial (like a nanosecond at max intensity) 300,000,000K explosion. I did the same .

Source? Don't want to trawl through ten pages to find this. Bloody impressive though if its legit

 Rotary wrote:
Lets be honest though, its 40'k. ALL forms of combat are popular. If someone thought of an idea to spoon people to death im sure it would be adopted by at least one faction at some point.

Already exists. They are called Slaanshi followers

Already exists. They are called Slaanshi followers

Exalted saw this at 3 in the morning

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
Never did I say it was more durable.

Yes you did. You said it was stronger. Stronger indicates it is less likely to break. It isn't. Arguably, it makes it MORE likely to break.

Melee is popular because sometimes you can't win in a gun fight. Which is exactly why your brought a knife.