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Just play tested my new adapted Iyanden list against a very strong farsight enclaves list. And annihilated him. To the point where he didn't even get a turn 4! I am very happy with the army list, even though a lot of traditional eldar players will have a lot of issues with it! But there is a couple of units I'm not sure about and want some tactical advice.

First off is my throwback to the old eldar with a seer council. This consists of 4 warlocks and a Farseer as a warlord. Probably a very unpopular choice but with the two spiritseers in the list means I have 7 psychers! And seemed to work well for me in this game. I'll be honest, they sat just forward of my deployment zone and used their blessings and such to pretty much just look after the rest of my army! Whilst conceal meant that when remaining in cover they were afforded a 2+ cover save. He survived the game (though three warlocks didn't) and even dropped 140 points worth of suits! However, was this the best way to use a unit like this? Or a waste of 140 Pts of warlocks?

Secondly is my fire prism. It was simply dreadful. Even with guide from the seer. I don't think it took any more than one 40 Pt suit out all game. I'm strongly contemplating dropping it for a third wave serpent, and taking TL bright lances. Makes the serpent almost as good at tank hunting, but also gives it more survivability and allows it to transport more wraiths! Or is it worth sticking it out with the prism for now? I don't know people's experiences. First time I've ever taken one.

I currently run 2 wave serpents and in the army my core is 3 squads of 5 wraiths as troops. So will a 3rd be worth it, or am I being to a,notions?

Lastly, something I'm not sure is an issue. I took 5 wraithblades, with ghost axes and power fields. They did take out a squad of 3 crises suits in combat, and soak up a shed load of firepower, but I'm wondering if 5 wraith cannons with guide is a better option? Especially considering you can't charge out of ave serpents!

Any thoughts?

Warlocks are fairly expensive force multipliers. So far it seems they do best when attached to large Guardian Squads (10+, I prefer 20) or full Windrider Jetbikes. Ld 8 and 35 points a model makes them highly inefficient in a council.

Yeah, I know they're expensive, but I like fluff!

On foot this might be true, but a dedicated Jetlock Council is whole different animal.

As for the Prism, it isn't good at AT, so if that's what you are looking for, get some extra points for either a Vaul's Support set of Vibro Cannons, or for some TBL Walkers. If you do not specifically need more AT, then a third Serpent with the typical Scatter set-up is best.

I say the Prism is good at anti-tank duty. S9 Lance makes it the second strongest anti-tank single shot in the game (Iron Warriors: I have a Land Raider, Vindicare: No you don't).

Lots of players are put off by it being a single shot, I get that but, I like having an answer for Land Raiders or Bastions from 60 in. away that PENS on 4s.

As for BikeLocks I dunno, never had enough bikes or conversion skill to run them but, 50pts a dude for Ld8 not quite my cup of tea. I do wonder what it be like a large BikeLock squad getting 2 Protect / Jinx. Suddenly the Jetbikes become Jetbike Terminators and they shoot at Terminators whose armor gets downgraded to Power Armor...hmm...

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
On foot this might be true, but a dedicated Jetlock Council is whole different animal.

As for the Prism, it isn't good at AT, so if that's what you are looking for, get some extra points for either a Vaul's Support set of Vibro Cannons, or for some TBL Walkers. If you do not specifically need more AT, then a third Serpent with the typical Scatter set-up is best.

To make a jet seer council work, you really need 2 farseers and the baron.

Fortune, 2+ cover, 2+ armor saves, offensive\defensive grenades, stealth, and hit and run are what make it work. And when all the elements come together, it's ...... Amazing!

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
On foot this might be true, but a dedicated Jetlock Council is whole different animal.

As for the Prism, it isn't good at AT, so if that's what you are looking for, get some extra points for either a Vaul's Support set of Vibro Cannons, or for some TBL Walkers. If you do not specifically need more AT, then a third Serpent with the typical Scatter set-up is best.

To make a jet seer council work, you really need 2 farseers and the baron.

Fortune, 2+ cover, 2+ armor saves, offensive\defensive grenades, stealth, and hit and run are what make it work. And when all the elements come together, it's ...... Amazing!

My 5 guys with single Farseer and the Baron beg to differ. I've gotten Fortune in only one game ever and yet have only lost them once. 2+ cover and the speed to let me choose what is going to be able to shoot at them is enough against most enemies, not to mention that they really aren't a priority target for a lot of stuff either. I've found there is a certain point when you start hitting overkill, and that's with the third character; I think Farseer and the Baron or just 2 Farseers is enough. I'm not a big fan of fully fledged deathstars anyway though.

 RancidHate wrote:
Lots of players are put off by it being a single shot, I get that but, I like having an answer for Land Raiders or Bastions from 60 in. away that PENS on 4s.

Penetrating a Land Raider on a 4 is better than a lot of other things, true, but that doesn't automatically make it good. 50/50 is not good odds. Think of it realistically, 66% chance to hit and 50% chance to pen.; with AP2 that's still only an 11% chance to kill a Land Raider. A single Meltagun has a 19.4% chance, and nobody throws a single Meltagun only at a Land Raider, so why would throw a single Prism?

Major downside for the warlocks to me is the fact they have to take psychic tests now. Even if you get that Fortune you're going to fail a few tests..

I do love Fire Prisms, but never take only one. Usually 2 or 3. Combined with their large/small blast ability, they are very versatile. It helps if you have a Farseer near for Guide/Prescience though.

I'm a little thrown by the poll saying Prims or Serpent, yet the title is about Prisms and BikeLocks.

Well I have to say 3rd Serpent as it doesn't use an FOC slot but still has all that defensive, high range ability. Not quite a Prism but S7 from 60in. isn't shabby.

@Mimicry. I agree with you if you thought Prisms were the only anti-tank I use. It can't all be perfect but VibroCannons, Fire Prisms and Wave Serpents have a nice threat range that can slown down the arrival of assault vehicle tough-guys. I do like DCannons though. I've vaporised BikeNob squads and Belialwing Terminators that tried to deep strike close.

@RancidHate yeah sorry about the poll, that's cos I'm not sure wether to run a prism or a third serpent. AT isn't an issue as I run two standard WK and a CH autarch. The prism is for pie plating things like marines.

The warlocks are a separate reference. I want to keep my old school seer council, but wanted advice how to use them as they are. Wether to keep them central and boost my forces, or use them as a ninja combat squad of speedy death.

How did you have farseer as warlord and 2 spirit seers?, dual FOC?

No, jus one FOC. The iyanden supplement allows you to take up to 5 spirit seers as a single HQ choice.

Take the Prism, that gak is nuts.

A unit that can fire a lance to ream heavy tanks, an AP2 blast to ream terminators, or a pie plate to crap on hordes... I've never seen anything half as crazy.

Yeah. The poll is swaying towards the serpent, and I know there is a shed load of love for serpents with the new dex! They are loved by all, and rightly so. Having run two for the first time yesterday I was more than impressed, but I do like that 'different' option the prism gives... And it's a pretty model... And I suppose I could 'guide' it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@MarkyMark just seen your post in the wrong thread...I'll answer it here though...

The iyanden supplement is just a supplement. You still build your army from the eldar dex. It just gives you some 'extra' options. For example, you can run up to 5 spirit seers in a single slot. I can still take warlocks, as per the eldar dex. And as they are not spirit seers they use the bog standard runes of battle chart.

Hope that helps...

Khaine's Wrath wrote:

And as they are not spirit seers they use the bog standard runes of battle chart.

I suggest you read the supplement rules again. Iyanden Supplement does not get Conceal/Reveal in any way, shape or form.

WRONG! I suggest you read it again. The supplement says a SPIRITSEER treats voice of twilight as its primary power. Nothing about warlocks. I've added a screenshot, just to keep you quiet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any apology greatly welcomed.....

Never noticed that it was just the Spiritseer, but you are definitely correct. That makes Iyanden a bit more appealing.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Penetrating a Land Raider on a 4 is better than a lot of other things, true, but that doesn't automatically make it good. 50/50 is not good odds. Think of it realistically, 66% chance to hit and 50% chance to pen.; with AP2 that's still only an 11% chance to kill a Land Raider. A single Meltagun has a 19.4% chance, and nobody throws a single Meltagun only at a Land Raider, so why would throw a single Prism?

Actually, the prisms lance is ap 1.

In relation to the discussion, I used two Fire Prisms against a friends IG last night and they did excellent, popped two Leman Russes. a techpriest with three servitors, two guardsmen squads, a command squad and a mortar squad I think between them. My Crimson Hunter Exarch also managed to pop the two other russes on his own.

I contemplated dropping my crimson hunter exarch, but I love him! He's awesome.

Khaine's Wrath wrote:

@MarkyMark just seen your post in the wrong thread...I'll answer it here though...

The iyanden supplement is just a supplement. You still build your army from the eldar dex. It just gives you some 'extra' options. For example, you can run up to 5 spirit seers in a single slot. I can still take warlocks, as per the eldar dex. And as they are not spirit seers they use the bog standard runes of battle chart.

Hope that helps...

Thanks dude, I was rushing out the door this morning and have no idea where I posted that then! haha, will find and edit.

Also that I didnt relise, thanks for pointing out it affects spiritseers only.