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I have a question about the Dies Irae in the final battle for Isstavan III.

***SPOILER ALERT BELOW****

Just read where Jonah Aruken kills Titus Cassar. The final ground battle lasted for months, however, why did the titan arrive towards the end of the battle, months later, when it was so close to the battle the whole time?

This was never really explained in the book.





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It was a private matter between brothers. That's why the arch traitors human minions didn't partake in the fighting. At the end though, my guess it was rule of cool to have the titan finish the job while the traitors looked on. IMHO of course.

I would argue that the dies irae is immensely complex to control and with part of its control crew slain it would become even more complex. I assumed this lull represented the time taken to repair damage from the firestorm and replace crew.

I don't think it was because of the lack of crewman and fire damage as to why. Princeps Esau Turnet would of taken his place if need be. He also ordered the titan locked down air tight before the virus hit. But it could be argued that other battle damage stopped them from joining the battle sooner.

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
I don't think it was because of the lack of crewman and fire damage as to why. Princeps Esau Turnet would of taken his place if need be. He also ordered the titan locked down air tight before the virus hit. But it could be argued that other battle damage stopped them from joining the battle sooner.

Yes I know it was locked down but after the virus there was the firestorm. An entire atmosphere ignited by the gas from the decay of billions is gonna reach considerable heat. That kind of heat could cause all kinds of damage to electrical systems and weapons.

If you read page 280 in the HH book Galaxy in Flames it just says that the weapons systems are fine but they'l just have to watch their rate of fire and not fire the plasma weapons for a while. If there was any major damage it would of been stated there.

In the forge world heresy book it explains that at least one of the reasons the titans sat out the early part of the ground war was because the storm made them unable to see well it raged so the idea of going into a city environment full of very angry and very skilled fighters well it was unable to see was suicide. The loyalist would have been able to kill any titan that entered by simply boarding them. And what good would their big guns have been if the virus bomb did not finish them off.

It was not stated in the book anywhere so I'm going to ignore the above about forge world.

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
It was not stated in the book anywhere so I'm going to ignore the above about forge world.

Wait, so the only source we can use to interpret The Galaxy Burns is that book itself?

Are you saying that the Forge World book contradicts stuff in The Galaxy Burns, and is thus a suspect source?

Or are you just saying that the only book we can use to understand The Galaxy Burns is itself? I'm confused.

You have to remember that FW/GW and BL all produce material about the 40k Universe. Technically the best thing to do is simply realize that each entity is actually writing about a completely separate "alternate reality" than the others. They have each been known to contradict each other.

In the BL universe we have zero reasoning for the late arrival. So that's one perspective. In FW, we have a few equipment related problems. GW -- well, GW ignores the whole thing.

Pick your poison

Couldn't of said it better clively.

@ da butcha - I only use the books, but feel free to use which ever source you want for your self. Though I'm hoping we're still talking about the same book. -Galaxy in Flames- or is there a book call the galaxy burns?

Most likely because Angron attacked the survivors when he was ordered not to. The Dies Irae wasn't supposed to fight after the virus bombing. The Dies Irae probably sat around while the traitors and loyalists battled it out as a titan firing into close combat would be a huge tactical blunder.

It only entered the fray when Horus had grown tired of the fight after losing half of the World Eaters.

The comment about a loyalist boarding action could be a valid one. It is possible that in the confusion of a city fight a Titan could be boarded.

 tundrafrog1124 wrote:
Most likely because Angron attacked the survivors when he was ordered not to.

Yeah but then Angron left the fray after killing the Loyalist World Eaters. It was basically an excuse to have a heroic last stand for the Loyalists but it really didn't make sense because if the Primarchs had just gotten involved it would have been over so much quicker. The fight lasted as long as it did because of Horus.

I've heard a suggestion that Horus ended up continuing the attacks because he wanted to make sure his men were ready to kill Loyalists in a much more personal way than virus bombing (no turning back sort of thing), but I'm not sure whether that's explicitly stated.

Maybe the Dies Irae was used as a bombardment platform during the siege? Used in the end as an exi-que-tioner(?) in a sacrifice of the remaining loyists (remember spoilers) while the assembled legions watched in a sort of ritual.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 tundrafrog1124 wrote:
Most likely because Angron attacked the survivors when he was ordered not to.

Yeah but then Angron left the fray after killing the Loyalist World Eaters. It was basically an excuse to have a heroic last stand for the Loyalists but it really didn't make sense because if the Primarchs had just gotten involved it would have been over so much quicker. The fight lasted as long as it did because of Horus.

I've heard a suggestion that Horus ended up continuing the attacks because he wanted to make sure his men were ready to kill Loyalists in a much more personal way than virus bombing (no turning back sort of thing), but I'm not sure whether that's explicitly stated.

But Horus didn't want to get anyone involved. The plan was to Virus bomb the planet and remove the Dies Irae. But because the Loyalists Legions had been warned then that plan was altered to Orbital Bombardment. But Angron ruined these plans by starting an assault on the loyalist forces. Horus then decided he would use Angron's failure to follow orders as an excuse to completely crush the loyalists in close combat. The only reason the Titan came in at the end was because after months of warfare with no sign of a Loyalist defeat soon, Horus, knowing he had little time before the other Legions came to destroy him ordered the Dies Irae to open fire then began orbital bombardment.

Its a bit like the movie 300 where they fight the whole time in CC and then finish it off at range. By the end Horus probably realised he was running out of time and realised he was going to lose too many men finishing them all off.

 tundrafrog1124 wrote:

But Horus didn't want to get anyone involved. The plan was to Virus bomb the planet and remove the Dies Irae. But because the Loyalists Legions had been warned then that plan was altered to Orbital Bombardment. But Angron ruined these plans by starting an assault on the loyalist forces. Horus then decided he would use Angron's failure to follow orders as an excuse to completely crush the loyalists in close combat. The only reason the Titan came in at the end was because after months of warfare with no sign of a Loyalist defeat soon, Horus, knowing he had little time before the other Legions came to destroy him ordered the Dies Irae to open fire then began orbital bombardment.

I know. But he changed his mind when Angron got personally. He could have finished the battle much more quickly despite Angron landing. For instance, the Primarchs themselves (or heavy vehicles? What happened to them?) would have crushed the defenders. Judging by their toughness in some of the books, quite possibly just by themselves. The question becomes why he let in drag it on so long and let the casualties get so high.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 tundrafrog1124 wrote:

But Horus didn't want to get anyone involved. The plan was to Virus bomb the planet and remove the Dies Irae. But because the Loyalists Legions had been warned then that plan was altered to Orbital Bombardment. But Angron ruined these plans by starting an assault on the loyalist forces. Horus then decided he would use Angron's failure to follow orders as an excuse to completely crush the loyalists in close combat. The only reason the Titan came in at the end was because after months of warfare with no sign of a Loyalist defeat soon, Horus, knowing he had little time before the other Legions came to destroy him ordered the Dies Irae to open fire then began orbital bombardment.

I know. But he changed his mind when Angron got personally. He could have finished the battle much more quickly despite Angron landing. For instance, the Primarchs themselves (or heavy vehicles? What happened to them?) would have crushed the defenders. Judging by their toughness in some of the books, quite possibly just by themselves. The question becomes why he let in drag it on so long and let the casualties get so high.

Because in the book it states that Horus could always be counted on to turn a failure into a victory. By letting the Legions battle it out he tested the mettle of his men and found out who were utterly loyal and who were not

 tundrafrog1124 wrote:

Because in the book it states that Horus could always be counted on to turn a failure into a victory. By letting the Legions battle it out he tested the mettle of his men and found out who were utterly loyal and who were not

True, but he also said he didn't have enough men or enough time to wage a protracted war. We know the Traitor Emperor's Children had a lot of casualties during the final battle. Anyway, it would seem as SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote that it just doesn't make sense that you would not commit Titans and other heavies to secure victory and move onto Isstvan V.

I guess we will keep guessing as to why the Titan was not committed earlier since it gives us no explanation in the novel.

One has to wonder just how many World Eaters made it to Terra given that in every HH book they're in they seem to suffer huge losses as they rush headlong at the enemy's guns, as well as slaughtering all their loyalists on Istvaan III.

I think the idea that the titans were kind of a smoke screen. The battle was already kind of weird with the order of battle being determined at the squad level by Horus and not the primarchs of the given legions. If titan support wasn't there for a huge pitched battle like that it would have probably set off red flags and led some marines to connect the dots.

For it not being at the end, it was a pride thing. The enemy loyalists were all supposed to die in one swift stroke but instead some survived. Then Angron went all rawr and Horus decided to make the best of the situation and made it into a protracted battle. Then it went on longer than expected so they went back to try for expedient methods like titans and bombardment.