Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Makumba wrote:

I don't understand why people would go to such lengths just to win.

I understand that income is much higher in the US , but wining and not wining some models can make a difference between making your army free and paying to get it

But some people cheat in any game - they just want to "win" even if the only reward is, well, "winning".

After looking back I have known a few people with questionable dice habits. If a dice is cocked it is supposed to be re-rolled. I found that some of my opponents will re-roll if they rolled poorly, but if it is beneficial to them they will attempt to take it.

meh people simply draw there own wage when they cheat because eventually people catch on and they won't get any games anymore

Two guys at my LGS

Guy 1) Will blatantly take the wargamer's inch(he's been caught moving 9 inches in movement on infantry). He's also infamous for moving flyers wrong despite being told everything on how they move and shoot, MULTIPLE times. We had to stop a game to explain flyers don't fly backwards. He also will not look at his codex.

Guy 2) Will rules lawyer every army that isn't his. He's been caught telling people what they can or cannot do. Which causes vets to slow the game down to prove him wrong and rookies will take his word for it. He's often either lying or outright mistaken.

While its not "cheating" one of the guys at our local FGS refuses to fight any army that is "unrealistic" !!!!! These have so far included , Any army with a flyer , any all bike armies , any army with a mix of tank and infantry ,any army that is just tanks and any Apocalypse games . If he finds himself playing any of these armies he packs his army away (and since he never played he never lost )

We have a guy at our FLGS that instead of using a dice cube as everyone else does brings in a bag of assorted dice. I noticed one day, after he rolled his to hit dice, and i remarked "theres a one in there" when he went to roll the wound, and he said "no its a three". The two outer dots had been painted the colour of the dice or had the paint scraped out of them. For leadership rolls maybe? He always shuffles around in the bag for dice when he needs them too, instead of using ones already on the table. Seems a bit suss.

I had to call a friend out on cheating during a Warmachine tournament final.

He over moved his models by half an inch every turn so he could get into his feat turn much earlier than it should have been.

The judge agreed, but I decided to let it play through as it wasn't worth losing a friend over, although he apologised and admitted he was being a douche.

Anyway, his feat turn was awful as his roll were nothing more than absolute failure. If he hit, he couldn't destroy anything. So next turn I popped my feat and got my Behemoth to slaughter his caster.

We are overall trying to stick with the right rules(we do make misstakes at times though) in my group.
But I did go to our local shop once and saw a game with demons vs SW in 5th. The demon player was super serious with everything and the Sw players one model dropped one of his arms duing the game and the demon player refused to let him put it back on.
He also claimed that that model now didn't have his plasma since it wasn't on the model.
I got pissed off even though i wasn't in that game. Thing is the demon player's whole army din't have a single gw model(40k) and he used Vermin Lords as Blood crushers as an example. I would have packed up my models and left had I been his opponent.

I tend to forget my stats, such as making my berserkers WS 4 when they have 5:(

Anyway, his feat turn was awful as his roll were nothing more than absolute failure. If he hit, he couldn't destroy anything.

I believe that most cheaters do get Karma to the face

Fenric wrote:
one model dropped one of his arms duing the game and the demon player refused to let him put it back on.
He also claimed that that model now didn't have his plasma since it wasn't on the model.

That guy is awesome. I have a friend I'd like to pit against them in a friendly game.

There would be blood.

My least favorite to deal with is people with "special" dice techniques to get dice rolls they want with 1-2 dice, like vertical drop dice.

Also as others have said rolling important stuff without the opponents watching or being able to watch

Savagecoyote wrote:While its not "cheating" one of the guys at our local FGS refuses to fight any army that is "unrealistic" !!!!! These have so far included , Any army with a flyer , any all bike armies , any army with a mix of tank and infantry ,any army that is just tanks and any Apocalypse games . If he finds himself playing any of these armies he packs his army away (and since he never played he never lost )

Wait, mix of tanks and infantry? does he not know how most real battles work? tanks are never sent in alone because their greatest weakness is other infantry sneaking up on them. They NEED atleast a small group hanging around unless theyre long-range artillery or something.
Not to mention the other ones are totally viable as well. Depending on the area, you could definitely have an entire platoon of bike riders and have it work provided it wasnt a tunnel-rat battlefield (like downtown areas). Fliers? Its not uncommon for a soldier to mark something and call in an air strike...actually it happens a lot as aside from the A-10 most planes wont even attack the ground without someone marking the target.

We had a nid player that would always try to do the "accumulative cover save" bullcrap, even though we never let him do it he'd try 2-3 times every single game to say things like "Theres a ruin here and intervening models so thats a 3+ cover" or "You can BARELY see his head, i get a 2+ cover" - newsflash, if cover added up like that everyone would be rolling 2+/3+ covers lol...and rules say nothing unless its a vehicle about how much of the model you can see long as its actually part of his body.
I play orks, i depended on cover more than him and i fight another player all the time about what the right saves for what terrain are...and this even urked me lol.

Incidentally the other guy was someone that insisted everything except an ADL was a 5+ cover, and going to ground was +1 flatout (i.e. including area terrain and ADL walls). He played Eldar/Dark Eldar so he didnt give a crap about ruins and area terrain since he never used them anyway, hence the issue lol.

 Jimsolo wrote:

However, what I notice more than anything else is what I call 'soft cheating.'

For instance, player A hits player B with a Witchfire power. Player B sighs, asks what the AP is, is told it is 2, and removes his models. Player A knows full well that Player B was entitled to a Deny the Witch roll, and says nothing.

Player A's Eldar defeat Player B's Marines in close combat. Player B fails his Leadership test, his unit breaks and escapes. In each subsequent round, Player B makes a test for the Marines, fails it, and continues to fall back, eventually off the board. Player A, no rookie to the game, is more than familiar with And They Shall Know No Fear and again keeps his mouth shut.
.

I don't really consider either of those examples cheating. I mean, you're a prick for sure, but not a cheater. It's not your job to babysit your opponent. I would, however, point out all the things he could have done after the game is over. Teach a man to fish...

I played a nid guy the other day that had 2 biovores, and I reminded him on turn 1 he didn't fire them. So he did. Then the same thing on turn 2. After that, I never reminded him again, and he didn't fire them the rest of the game. Not my fault he's forgetful.

I've been pretty lucky with rules cheating in general, the only opponent who really tried something fishy was a kid who claimed a Chapter Master's Orbital Bombardment was available every turn and didn't scatter. Kept arguing even after I showed him the codex.

Not quite cheating using the rules but I did have a frustrating afternoon in a GW event where a young teen, about 12 or so, insisted on using his own huge dice that were too big to actually roll and were suspiciously prone to 6s. The things were about 2inches across! The kid ended up leaving rather than use other dice despite being asked politely by pretty much everyone.

 deviantduck wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
However, what I notice more than anything else is what I call 'soft cheating.'
.

I don't really consider either of those examples cheating. I mean, you're a prick for sure, but not a cheater. It's not your job to babysit your opponent.

Well, forgetting to fire is one thing - maybe he intended to forgo shooting?

But letting an opponent miss rules that he should use - rules that aren't optional - and only reminding him when it benefits you is surely cheating. Such as staying silent if he rolls only one dice for Ordnance armor penetration, or not reminding him about the +1A for a charge but immediately pouncing on him if he forgets the Pinning test for passengers on a destroyed transport. Those aren't things you do only if you feel like it, they're all required by the rules.

On the whole, I rarely see cheating, so I've been lucky there.

I think the worst case of cheating I've ever seen was a huge (non-apoc) game with 7 players, no real force org, and allies all over the place. We divided up points before hand and the opposing side gave 2000 points to their SM player. He put his army down and I did some quick mental maths, it came out at around 3000 points before upgrades, so I asked him to talk me through what was what. He then proceeds to tell me most of it is HQ (which was pretty obvious from the models, but we weren't using FOC so I went with it). He then showed me how he has (proxied) lysander, calgar, tigurius, sicarius and full command for all of them. So about 1500 points right there. I add up the rest of the list and tell him he needs to lose around a thousand points so we're on even sides.

He makes some changes (but not enough, still 500 over) and then just deploys a couple of squads. I ask him where the rest is, and he tells me Sicarius can infiltrate a Tac squad. I remind him this only applied to one squad (he was about to infiltrate 4) and he nodded. "I know," he says... 'I've got 4 of him."(again proxied) I point out you can only take SC once, and he just says he's given them different names....

It then takes at least half an hour to go through his list and sort it properly, delaying the game for the other 6 players.

Spetulhu wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
However, what I notice more than anything else is what I call 'soft cheating.'
.

I don't really consider either of those examples cheating. I mean, you're a prick for sure, but not a cheater. It's not your job to babysit your opponent.

Well, forgetting to fire is one thing - maybe he intended to forgo shooting?

But letting an opponent miss rules that he should use - rules that aren't optional - and only reminding him when it benefits you is surely cheating. Such as staying silent if he rolls only one dice for Ordnance armor penetration, or not reminding him about the +1A for a charge but immediately pouncing on him if he forgets the Pinning test for passengers on a destroyed transport. Those aren't things you do only if you feel like it, they're all required by the rules.

I agree, i see this way too often, the other person's usually feigns ignorance to the rule that they've used sometimes in the same battle.

i try to let my opponents use the psychic powers they forgot, the tank in the corner they forgot to move slide up during the shooting phase. I end up with battle vision and always forget stuff so if i have an opponent that is amenable to these sporadic out of sequence adjustments i think both of us have a better time. I hate having game regrets of if only i would have remembered to cast conceal instead of that may not have been the best call...

I have been occasionally guilty of screwing up stats and rules. But I can honestly say that it has never been on purpose for my advantage. I like playing laid back, even in tourneys. If someone forgets to move a squad before they start shooting (happened twice in the last tourney) i'll remind them and let them move it before the rest of the shooting continues.
The only cheating that I saw at my FLGS recently was moving front to back. I'm not the kind of guy that makes you measure every single model exactly 6". I prefer to measure the couple in the front 6" then fill the rest in. But the guy I was playing with consistently moved his wraith lords 8 to 9" because he was going front to back. I finally called him on it, and I think he was a little embarrassed to be honest. But the rest of the game went well, and I enjoyed playing against him.
Simply put, don't be a donkey cave and enjoy the game. It's better for everyone that way.

I don't have Army Builder, so I have to do all my lists by hand. Occasionally, I make a list that breaks the FOC and don't catch it, but I always fess up when I realize what happened. The one time it happened in competitive play I informed a judge and forfeited immediately.

Interesting side note, all the hardcore cheaters I know play Tyranids. Isn't that interesting? I know Tyranids players who are just peachy, but it seems odd that the army seems to draw the shady characters in.

Pre-measuring. Oh wait.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:
. There are actually a lot of things that TFGs tend to do, like play forgeworld,

Butthurt much because you can't afford the pretty models? 98% of ForgeWorld is actually underpowered, and the stuff that is ridiculous usually gets nerfobliterated in the next iteration (see DKOK drill). Certainly their external balance is no worse than GW studio material.

The biggest problem with using forgeworld stuff is just the lack of access to it or familirization for the most part. I understand it being an indicator, but doesn't neccessarily mean that someone is TFG. Which is what Ailaros was saying if you read past that part. Or even just read the part quoted, where he says "tend" to do.

Again, it's just the stigma that you could probably bring a model with a bunch of guns on it and say "It's a forgeworld model" and people would probably believe whatever rules you made up for it because it "sounds like something they would do." I do agree that most of the stuff is rather junky. For example I think there is only like four items in the Tau section that would actually compete with what's in the Tau book, but nothing amazingly so.

Spectral Painting NI wrote:
I've been pretty lucky with rules cheating in general, the only opponent who really tried something fishy was a kid who claimed a Chapter Master's Orbital Bombardment was available every turn and didn't scatter. Kept arguing even after I showed him the codex.

Not quite cheating using the rules but I did have a frustrating afternoon in a GW event where a young teen, about 12 or so, insisted on using his own huge dice that were too big to actually roll and were suspiciously prone to 6s. The things were about 2inches across! The kid ended up leaving rather than use other dice despite being asked politely by pretty much everyone.

That's why I don't play against children.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
The biggest problem with using forgeworld stuff is just the lack of access to it or familirization for the most part. I understand it being an indicator, but doesn't neccessarily mean that someone is TFG. Which is what Ailaros was saying if you read past that part. Or even just read the part quoted, where he says "tend" to do.

Again, it's just the stigma that you could probably bring a model with a bunch of guns on it and say "It's a forgeworld model" and people would probably believe whatever rules you made up for it because it "sounds like something they would do." I do agree that most of the stuff is rather junky. For example I think there is only like four items in the Tau section that would actually compete with what's in the Tau book, but nothing amazingly so.

I don't know, the implication seemed pretty clear. "TFGs cheat. They also tend to use FW."

Making gak up for FW models is no different than making gak up for Codex models, which we've seen multiple people give examples of in this very thread. Your opponent should have a rules reference for any model he brings.

 -Loki- wrote:
I have a friend who has an irritating habit of turning the direction of a scatter when moving the tape from the scatter die to the originating point. Generally away from his models and towards mine.

I just call him on it, and he corrects it.

I'm so bad at interpreting Scatter rolls. It's got to the point where I don't use Blast weapons in my lists because I'm just so terrible at it. Mind you, with Eldar, I have a hard time fitting blast weapons around all those Wave Serpents!

Iranna.

 Jimsolo wrote:
I don't have Army Builder, so I have to do all my lists by hand. Occasionally, I make a list that breaks the FOC and don't catch it, but I always fess up when I realize what happened. The one time it happened in competitive play I informed a judge and forfeited immediately.

Interesting side note, all the hardcore cheaters I know play Tyranids. Isn't that interesting? I know Tyranids players who are just peachy, but it seems odd that the army seems to draw the shady characters in.

That is... odd. All the guys I've had problemswith were GK or IG players (or both...)

But as to Tyranids, my only possible idea is because Tyranids play differently from any other army by a long shot, and have many special rules not like any others. Also, They're currently a rare army, and so one that many people are wholly unfamiliar with, therefore making it easier to cheat.

I say this because I've played people who don't understand the codex at all, and there's a LOT to explain!

 Omegus wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
The biggest problem with using forgeworld stuff is just the lack of access to it or familirization for the most part.

Making gak up for FW models is no different than making gak up for Codex models, which we've seen multiple people give examples of in this very thread. Your opponent should have a rules reference for any model he brings.

True, but FW as opposed to a GW Codex isn't readily available to look through in your average FLGS or among your circle of gamer friends. If someone makes stuff up about his Codex you might have actually read it and know he's wrong - when he makes stuff up about FW chances are you've never seen the book. People don't usually demand to see a unit entry in some fast pickup game after all, they just want to play and maybe finish until the last bus home leaves.

I dont think ive had anyone cheat yet. If we disagree about a rule, we just look it up and move on with the correct rule, its pretty easy and noone gets butthurt about it.

Though a few times, a friend of mine would move my models for me. Like after i beat him in assault and roll to consolidate, he'd pick up my models and move them for me without asking where i want them, or even measuring the distance :/

All FW material is readily available online.

That said, you always have the option of not playing against a supposed FW model if the rules presented sound ridiculous. If the person using the model doesn't have the book, then tough titties.

 Omegus wrote:
All FW material is readily available online.

If so please provide a link to where I can get information on the Eldar Hornets as they appear in IA Apocaypse (August 2013 edition).

Not sure if this is mentioned before, but I've seen a few occasions before where my opponent will try to re-roll bad results, claiming that the dice is cocked due to it resting on something tiny like a piece of basing gravel on the board. Dice wedged between two board sections, yes that's cocked. Dice touching a model's base with one side raised about 1-2mm off the ground? No, it's not cocked, deal with it ¬¬