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So I'm fairly new to Necrons and I acquired a nice, sizable bunch of models that has allowed me to build a fairly strong force, but one that needs some input before I start investing more into the army.

I have tons of Wraiths(12x) and scarabs, but am light on some of the other vehicles and models. Specifically Ghost Arks, Monoliths, mass warriors and destroyers. I do intend on adding at least a single Ghost Ark as they make sense given their abilities and current meta with Tau & Eldar, but I'm unsure about investing the money before I've received input.

Right now I've played my buddy with his Farsight blob a few times and out of the few times we've played I've felt some components work really well, while others feel more suited for previous editions.

Here is the current iteration of the list I've been playing

LIST A


This list offers 4x fast targets for assault purposes that really can threaten my opponent. I really like the lord in the barge for the points and what he does, but he's not as resilient as I'd like for a Warlord. In games where I went first, I felt like it really has the potential to push my opponent over the edge, but in games where I've gone second it's really struggled. Because of that I've looked into the following lists:

LIST B


The objective here is to double up on the Royal Court and trade body count for damage output. I'm not sure that Long Range weaponry is in the lists best interest however considering that Imotekh ensures first turn night fight. For that reason I made the 3rd list which "uses the cover of night" to advance it's infantry closer to my opponent.

LIST C

I was trying to keep in mind the current meta with Tau & Eldar being a lot more popular these days. The drawback here is that I don't currently own any Ghost Arks, but am considering buying at least one.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I guess they're just not "competitive"?

I'd love any input to help improve vs the Tau/Eldar meta

Bumping for some input...

So, as I see it, broadly you are asking whether you should put warriors into ghost arks or scythes? and which crypteks to use?

As you have a stalker, I suggest you load up on Destructeks (Eldritch lances), put them with warrior squads, in Ghost arks. However, I recommend you have the HGC on the stalker, because it is twin linked.

If you prefer DespairTeks with the Abyssal staff, then 5 warriors in night scythes (because you can move them faster plus you get precise placement - particularly if you have a pair of despairteks per warrior squad).

You have interesting squad sizing - for the scarabs I'm assuming that tomb spyders are not canoptek spyders but can spawn? If not, then go with 2 x 6 rather than 3 x 4. Definitely not 3x3 - I think the fragility won't offset the fact you have multiple units, but ymmv.

For the FA and HS slots, I also try and get a unit of wraiths, 2 scarab units then 3 spyders and 2 AB. This is a very effective combo I've found. You seem to have something similar, but I'm not sure about your unit sizes. If it's working for you I'd be keen to hear it.

Overall, the lists look fine because you have buttoned up the small units of troops in vehicles. However, because of the stalker, you should probably consider having more troops on the board T1 - so your move to more GA makes sense.

GA, for me, work most efficiently with larger units of warriors (some on foot) OR with small warriors with attached crypteks OR just as cryptek gunboats, supporting warriors on foot.

hope something from here helps.

MarkCron wrote:
So, as I see it, broadly you are asking whether you should put warriors into ghost arks or scythes? and which crypteks to use?

As you have a stalker, I suggest you load up on Destructeks (Eldritch lances), put them with warrior squads, in Ghost arks. However, I recommend you have the HGC on the stalker, because it is twin linked.

If you prefer DespairTeks with the Abyssal staff, then 5 warriors in night scythes (because you can move them faster plus you get precise placement - particularly if you have a pair of despairteks per warrior squad).

You have interesting squad sizing - for the scarabs I'm assuming that tomb spyders are not canoptek spyders but can spawn? If not, then go with 2 x 6 rather than 3 x 4. Definitely not 3x3 - I think the fragility won't offset the fact you have multiple units, but ymmv.

For the FA and HS slots, I also try and get a unit of wraiths, 2 scarab units then 3 spyders and 2 AB. This is a very effective combo I've found. You seem to have something similar, but I'm not sure about your unit sizes. If it's working for you I'd be keen to hear it.

Overall, the lists look fine because you have buttoned up the small units of troops in vehicles. However, because of the stalker, you should probably consider having more troops on the board T1 - so your move to more GA makes sense.

GA, for me, work most efficiently with larger units of warriors (some on foot) OR with small warriors with attached crypteks OR just as cryptek gunboats, supporting warriors on foot.

hope something from here helps.

Thank you so much for the input.

I played necrons all the way back in 3e, but have since sold the army and rarely played against them since 4e. My objective with the post was really to find out what Necron players have found works best for them, but keeping an eye towards the current meta of Tau&Eldar. As a Tau player I know how brutal Tau can be, and against my buddy's Farsight blob, I just felt I was missing...*something*. My hope was to get the input of player's like yourself who were more familiar with Necrons and get some feedback.

With regards to unit size, what would you suggest for the scarabs? It felt like 5-6 is really the best starting point for them.

Re scarabs, I have recently been giving units of 5-6 a go, as long as I have spare slots in the FOC. However, I have also been trying out heavy destroyers, so I end up with 8/9 (cos I normally take 1 unit of wraiths.).

Re TauDar/Tau/Eldar, I can't help too much, because I haven't played v them at all, particularly serpent spam. However, from what I can see:

a) Scarabs should be quite useful against Tau, because they have a packet load of wounds to absorb overwatch/supporting fire and a packet load of attacks once they get in. Bad news is the Riptide blast templates and Crisis suits. So, if you can keep them in cover you might do ok.

b) AV13 apparently works well against Tau - so Ghost arks, Anni Barges etc.

c) Death and Despair units (5 deathmarks and a Harbringer of Despair) would seem to be the answer to the troop problems. At the very least, you should be able to create a gap in the supporting fire coverage (particularly if you take the ethereal out).

d) Flyers - Night and Doom scythes - Watch out for interceptor from the riptides though.

The main problem is volume of fire. It will kill wraiths in one turn (from the battle reports I've seen). So, not sure what it will do to the tomb spyders.

With the models you have, I'm not sure there is much else you can do. As you have a lot of crypteks, you have the option of creating a couple of anti vehcile/anti infantry courts.

For example, 2 Despairteks, Veiltek, 2 stormteks. These units can veil in and with three templates (if you have any luck with the scatter at all) you should be able to wipe out anything hiding behind an ADL. For Eldar, stormteks vs vehicles.

I hope you have fun with the Crons - we still have some of the best units - we just have to play a lot smarter against some of the new codex's

I just went through my minis and here is the full load out of what I have.
1x Destroyer Lord
Nemesor, Anarkyr, Obyron, Imotekh
2x Lords w/ Res Orbs
9x Crypteks
24x Warriors
9x Immortals w/ Gauss
11x Immortals w/ Tesla
3x Annihilation Barges
2x Command
12x Scarabs
12x Wraiths
2x Night Scythes
3x Tomb spyders
I have 5x minis to make whatever
Bitz wise I have enough to make 15x Deathmarks, 10x Lychguard, Lots of Immortals
I'm going to try to acquire some more warriors to convert up more minis and flesh out the units as well as a Ghost Ark.


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MarkCron wrote:
Re scarabs, I have recently been giving units of 5-6 a go, as long as I have spare slots in the FOC. However, I have also been trying out heavy destroyers, so I end up with 8/9 (cos I normally take 1 unit of wraiths.).

I remember back in 3e how amazing destroyers were and was making a destroyer bomb list way back in the day, but my collection just doesn't have any to try out.
I'm torn between MSU, with 2x units of 4x, as opposed to a larger unit of scarabs simply because I like the target saturation for when I play against shooty armies like Tau. What have you found is an optimal number when running 2x units?

MarkCron wrote:

Re TauDar/Tau/Eldar, I can't help too much, because I haven't played v them at all, particularly serpent spam. However, from what I can see:

a) Scarabs should be quite useful against Tau, because they have a packet load of wounds to absorb overwatch/supporting fire and a packet load of attacks once they get in. Bad news is the Riptide blast templates and Crisis suits. So, if you can keep them in cover you might do ok.

So far that's been my experience. Though a word of advice, as a Tau player you can't rely on cover. It's very easy for Tau to negate it, so using terrain to fully block LOS is definitely the way to go.

MarkCron wrote:

b) AV13 apparently works well against Tau - so Ghost arks, Anni Barges etc.

Against most Tau armies I'd say yes, but Dual Riptides are able to drop S9 AP2 Ordnance blasts (there is a 3+ followed by a 2+ to get that) and Farsight armies are able to place a blob of twin-linked, Tank hunting, ignore cover, double Fusion Blaster (18"melta) anywhere on the table from reserve that can target multiple vehicles. His particular build seems to have little problem with AV13. My version of Tau would however as I focus on S7 shooting being able to strip HP. I do have the Riptides, but not the luxury of the fusion blaster placement. For example, in my last game I deployed poorly and he fired one round that took out both my stalker and GA.

MarkCron wrote:

c) Death and Despair units (5 deathmarks and a Harbringer of Despair) would seem to be the answer to the troop problems. At the very least, you should be able to create a gap in the supporting fire coverage (particularly if you take the ethereal out).

Initially I was reluctant to take this unit as I was "trying to buck the curve", but I'm starting to really like the idea of risk/reward with the Veiltek.

MarkCron wrote:

d) Flyers - Night and Doom scythes - Watch out for interceptor from the riptides though.

I've not run a Doom scythe yet, but the range of the Skyfiring/Intercepting Riptides has forced me to keep my Night Scythes well back. I imagine that would be the same case with the Doom Scythes, and I'm really reluctant to run them because of this.

MarkCron wrote:

The main problem is volume of fire. It will kill wraiths in one turn (from the battle reports I've seen). So, not sure what it will do to the tomb spyders.

That's definitely the case with the Wraiths. They're more costly for the number of wounds they can put on the table vs scarabs, they're also slower (jump vs beast). That 3++ is pretty sick though and if you roll well it's a game changer. Spyders are still amazing for their points, but Tau and serpents can definitely through out enough wounds on them if they don't have a cover save (vs Serpents). I'm thinking that a full 3x squad is the best bet as that ends up being 9x T6 wounds + 9x T3 wounds.

MarkCron wrote:

With the models you have, I'm not sure there is much else you can do. As you have a lot of crypteks, you have the option of creating a couple of anti vehcile/anti infantry courts.

For example, 2 Despairteks, Veiltek, 2 stormteks. These units can veil in and with three templates (if you have any luck with the scatter at all) you should be able to wipe out anything hiding behind an ADL. For Eldar, stormteks vs vehicles.

I hope you have fun with the Crons - we still have some of the best units - we just have to play a lot smarter against some of the new codex's

I'm really excited about playing the army more as the new models really are quite amazing. The army is also very unique from other ones that I've played.

paidinfull wrote:
I just went through my minis and here is the full load out of what I have.
1x Destroyer Lord
Nemesor, Anarkyr, Obyron, Imotekh
2x Lords w/ Res Orbs
9x Crypteks
24x Warriors
9x Immortals w/ Gauss
11x Immortals w/ Tesla
3x Annihilation Barges
2x Command
12x Scarabs
12x Wraiths
2x Night Scythes
3x Tomb spyders
I have 5x minis to make whatever
Bitz wise I have enough to make 15x Deathmarks, 10x Lychguard, Lots of Immortals
I'm going to try to acquire some more warriors to convert up more minis and flesh out the units as well as a Ghost Ark.

Nice collection. Actually very similar to mine other than I have ghost arks plus deathmarks and Sword and Board Lychguard built. I recently added a couple of stalkers (ok), 3 heavy destroyers (bit pricey but handy for AP2) and a unit of Praetorians with RoC (Have potential, particularly as replacements for wraiths (but again are expensive)).

Re Lychguard, I think the S&B versions make excellent bodyguards. They are quite tough, the invul save is VERY handy and they have a useful number of attacks. Not so sure about the warscythe versions - I'd probably take Praetorians for the additional movement, shooting and HoW benefits.

The Praetorians with RoC are most effective against MEQ. TEQ gives them major problems. The RoC shooting is fantastic for thinning out a squad, then the assault usually finishes them off. Really benefit from an attached destroyer lord, both to tank wounds but also for PE. I think they have a role if you have 2xscarabs + heavy destroyers in the FOC slot.

Deathmarks are the business. It is very rare that I don't have a squad of deathmarks with veiltek. I try and start mine on the Board to get them into play T1. Just the sheer disruption factor of having them drop down and kill something important T1 (not to mention First Blood points) make them worth it. Added benefit is that the opponent usually spits the dummy and tries to kill them immediately - which is fine because they aren't shooting at the incoming scarabs/wraiths.

CCBs I think are slowly coming back. As delivery vehicles for kitted overlords, they are vastly superior. I loved mine in 5th, but put them away in 6th because it was too hard to sweep attack without immediately getting charged. However, now I'm thinking they'd be good at rupturing ADL castles, particularly as the chariot gets HoW attacks. So, flat out T1, assault T2.

Destroyers I'm not a fan of. Not enough range and not durable enough. Heavy destroyers I quite like.

paidinfull wrote:

MarkCron wrote:
Re scarabs, I have recently been giving units of 5-6 a go, as long as I have spare slots in the FOC. However, I have also been trying out heavy destroyers, so I end up with 8/9 (cos I normally take 1 unit of wraiths.).

I remember back in 3e how amazing destroyers were and was making a destroyer bomb list way back in the day, but my collection just doesn't have any to try out.
I'm torn between MSU, with 2x units of 4x, as opposed to a larger unit of scarabs simply because I like the target saturation for when I play against shooty armies like Tau. What have you found is an optimal number when running 2x units?

I think the sweet spot is 7/8. So, I usually start with 5, then top up with spyders. If I don't have spyders, then 7.

paidinfull wrote:

MarkCron wrote:

c) Death and Despair units (5 deathmarks and a Harbringer of Despair) would seem to be the answer to the troop problems. At the very least, you should be able to create a gap in the supporting fire coverage (particularly if you take the ethereal out).

Initially I was reluctant to take this unit as I was "trying to buck the curve", but I'm starting to really like the idea of risk/reward with the Veiltek.

Yep, I don't like the nightscythe method. If I'm going to use them, I want them T1, hence veiltek.

I'm not a scythe spam player - Too many units potentially waiting to come in.

paidinfull wrote:

MarkCron wrote:

The main problem is volume of fire. It will kill wraiths in one turn (from the battle reports I've seen). So, not sure what it will do to the tomb spyders.

That's definitely the case with the Wraiths. They're more costly for the number of wounds they can put on the table vs scarabs, they're also slower (jump vs beast). That 3++ is pretty sick though and if you roll well it's a game changer. Spyders are still amazing for their points, but Tau and serpents can definitely through out enough wounds on them if they don't have a cover save (vs Serpents). I'm thinking that a full 3x squad is the best bet as that ends up being 9x T6 wounds + 9x T3 wounds.

I really like the utility of spyders, and as they are MC as well it's pretty handy (with Fear and HoW, plus Smash). I think it is well worth using a HS slot for a group of 3. Putting the guns (if you have spare points) and a gloom prism on them as well should help a little.

paidinfull wrote:

MarkCron wrote:

With the models you have, I'm not sure there is much else you can do. As you have a lot of crypteks, you have the option of creating a couple of anti vehcile/anti infantry courts.

For example, 2 Despairteks, Veiltek, 2 stormteks. These units can veil in and with three templates (if you have any luck with the scatter at all) you should be able to wipe out anything hiding behind an ADL. For Eldar, stormteks vs vehicles.

I hope you have fun with the Crons - we still have some of the best units - we just have to play a lot smarter against some of the new codex's

I'm really excited about playing the army more as the new models really are quite amazing. The army is also very unique from other ones that I've played.

The thing I like is the ease with which you can change styles...MSU - tick, AV wall - tick, Assault - tick, phalanx - tick, gunline - tick. Stops them from getting boring. Course, many of these options aren't top tier competitive, but all can be very nasty in the right hands.


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I forgot...take Zandrekh. I have never regretted taking him, but have often wished I did when I didn't.

Remember he can give your units good buffs (try putting furious charge on scarabs when they assault MEQ), but can take away pretty important ones from the enemy (like Counter Attack, Night Vision, Hit and Run).

Thanks! I spent some time on Friday, converting a bunch of the minis up and made:
5x Deathmarks
5x Lychguard (sword & board)

I ended up playing a game against my buddy's orks and, while I got smashed, had a lot of fun. My list did contain both the Deathmarks and Lychguard, both of which performed pretty well.

Happy to help, but apparently wasn't that helpful if you got smashed! Good that you had fun though.

Let me guess - bikers or simply too many bodies?

Overlord -115
Mindshackle Scarabs, Warscythe
Command Barge - 80
Gauss Cannon

Nemesor - 185
Res Orb, Weave, Phase, Staff
COMMAND TRAIT

4x Cryptek - 170
1x Abyssal, 1x Veil, 2x Eldritch, 1x Chronometron

3x Cryptek - 140
1x Abyssal, 1x Veil, 2x Eldritch, 1x Gaze

TROOPS
6x Warriors - 78

6x Warriors - 78

5x Warriors - 65
1x Night Scythe - 100

5x Warriors - 65
1x Night Scythe - 100

ELITES
5x DeathMarks - 95

5x Lychguard - 225
Hyperphase Sword, Dispersion Shield

FAST
5x Scarabs- 75

HEAVY
2x Tomb Spyder - 100

Annihilation Barge - 90

Annihilation Barge - 90


So general deployment is
6x Warriors + 1x Destructek (twice)
5x Warriors + 2x Destructek (Gaze)
5x Warriors in a Scythe + 1x Empty Scythe in Reserve

Chronotek + Veiltek join Zandrekh + 5x Lychguard (S&B)
Veiltek joins 5x Deathmark


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarkCron wrote:
Happy to help, but apparently wasn't that helpful if you got smashed! Good that you had fun though.

Let me guess - bikers or simply too many bodies?

Ha
Actually it was a good list that did focus on bodies, but a lot of it was my dice roll, list composition and deployment. Bottom of Turn 2 I had 1x Warrior + 1x Cryptek left for scoring models.
He ran 2x Battlewagons with 20x boys + 6x Nob bikers w/ warboss + Big Mek w/ Shokk Attack + 30x Lootas + 30x boys + Kannons + Zagstruk w/ Stormboyz

He went first and Turn 2 he was able to charge with 20x Boys, Stormboyz, Nob Bikers and then ran over both my barges with his wagons (I rolled terrible on my skimmer dodge). I made 1x RA roll out of 9x it was pretty silly honestly.

Deathmarks veiled on Turn 1 and killed a bunch of Lootas who luckily passed LD. Lych rolled an 11 on the scatter and went off the table. I walked on with Lych in Turn 3 and killed most of the 20x boys out of the wagon. Turn 3 saw the Deathmarks go away.


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In hindsight I should have reserved models in the Night Scythes and planned my tactics for going second. I also missed having scarabs + spyders and while I like the Triarch model, it's really expensive for what it does and doesn't quite fit into my list design.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarkCron wrote:
Happy to help, but apparently wasn't that helpful if you got smashed! Good that you had fun though.

Let me guess - bikers or simply too many bodies?

Oh and to clarify, your information was very, very helpful. I tend to suffer from a desire to fit *everything* into my list. It lacked focus and more importantly, bodies.

Glad to help.

The list posted actually looks fine - broadly similar to one I'd use.

Only difference would be that I'd swap the chrono for a Stormtek with lightning in Z's squad and both 8 man warrior squads for equivalent points of Tesla immortals, which I'd probably reserve depending on terrain.

I have the same problem as you - I'm thinking of starting a Space Wolf army and am gleefully trying to stuff all the cool units into a list. Unfortunately, the lists I come up with are *ahem* lacking focus - to say the least!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait...what stalker?

MarkCron wrote:
Glad to help.

The list posted actually looks fine - broadly similar to one I'd use.

Only difference would be that I'd swap the chrono for a Stormtek with lightning in Z's squad and both 8 man warrior squads for equivalent points of Tesla immortals, which I'd probably reserve depending on terrain.

I have the same problem as you - I'm thinking of starting a Space Wolf army and am gleefully trying to stuff all the cool units into a list. Unfortunately, the lists I come up with are *ahem* lacking focus - to say the least!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait...what stalker?

Question, so you think the defensive ability is more useful than the D6 reroll? Honestly, it's been a tough call.
D6 S8 AP5 is definitely nice for combat resolution, especially if I'm charged by multiple units.

I was however, initially toying taking 2x Despairteks. That would give me 2x D3 AP1 Wall of Death attacks that would instant kill T4.
It would also make the unit incredibly lethal... but that might be severe overkill against everything that's not a blob (10+ models)
The chronometron seemed to offer me good flexibility though as it would help with DS scatter, Shooting, Leadership, Reanimation Protocol
It was more of a tactical choice simply because it seemed like one of the best pieces of wargear out there.

With regards to the "what stalker" i ran one in the list I played against my buddy. I picked one up because I liked the model and how it functioned on paper. The list I was settling on however doesn't seem to be conducive with it's inclusion. I feel like I need more of a warrior focused list.

With regards to Warrior vs Immortals, I feel like warriors are a better buy...? I dunno, it's so hard given my lack of experience, but given points cost, the warriors seem like a better buy.

They have the same statline, suffer 17% more casualties to small arms fire, gauss and reanimation protocols. For a price increase of 31% I get a 17% increase in resistance to small arms fire, and a 17% increase to casualties inflicted (not accounting for tesla which does bump it up). Sorry to get so "mathy" I'm probably over thinking it a bunch, but there's that "comfort" that comes from having more bodies on the table.

paidinfull wrote:

Question, so you think the defensive ability is more useful than the D6 reroll? Honestly, it's been a tough call.
D6 S8 AP5 is definitely nice for combat resolution, especially if I'm charged by multiple units.

It is always good to get views of people who have just started Crons, because they have a different perspective on what is useful. Generally, I'd only take a chrono if I needed a reroll for Imotekh. No questioning the value of being able to do a reroll - can be game changing!

For me the Chrono is too situational - I'd rather have another despairtek, or stormtek or something. Having said that defensive ability is again something that I'd personally only use on deathstars, but see comments re warriors below for context on that.

paidinfull wrote:
I was however, initially toying taking 2x Despairteks. That would give me 2x D3 AP1 Wall of Death attacks that would instant kill T4.
It would also make the unit incredibly lethal... but that might be severe overkill against everything that's not a blob (10+ models)
The chronometron seemed to offer me good flexibility though as it would help with DS scatter, Shooting, Leadership, Reanimation Protocol
It was more of a tactical choice simply because it seemed like one of the best pieces of wargear out there.

2 Despairteks is a nasty offensive and defensive option. I'd rather take that than the reroll. Remembering that you can have a royal court operate on its own, try 2 despairteks (one with veil) and a couple of stormteks (one with lighting). Much hilarity ensues - although your opponent may rage quit. Being everliving, even if they wipe the unit out with shooting, you can still get back up!! If they assault, well, that's really their problem isn't it.

paidinfull wrote:
With regards to the "what stalker" i ran one in the list I played against my buddy. I picked one up because I liked the model and how it functioned on paper. The list I was settling on however doesn't seem to be conducive with it's inclusion. I feel like I need more of a warrior focused list.

Stalkers are an awesome model, but need to be able to buff non twinlinked tesla (or maybe normal destroyers) to get full benefit. So you almost have to build a list for them. Also, you need a pair.

paidinfull wrote:
With regards to Warrior vs Immortals, I feel like warriors are a better buy...? I dunno, it's so hard given my lack of experience, but given points cost, the warriors seem like a better buy.

They have the same statline, suffer 17% more casualties to small arms fire, gauss and reanimation protocols. For a price increase of 31% I get a 17% increase in resistance to small arms fire, and a 17% increase to casualties inflicted (not accounting for tesla which does bump it up). Sorry to get so "mathy" I'm probably over thinking it a bunch, but there's that "comfort" that comes from having more bodies on the table.

Couple of links to other threads (you've probably seen these, but just in case)
Warrior vs Immortal http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/549671.page
Warrior Phalanx http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/548961.page

I have a very simple view - Warriors are either in 5 man or 15+ units. If I need an enemy deployment zone objective holder/cheap shield - Immortals. I will never have a 5 man Immortal unit (unless I have 2 troops in a 2000 point list )

My logic is:
a) Necrons are generally poor objective sitters - an assault by just about anything will not end well. So, increasing the number of sacrificial bodies doesn't make sense. If I get assaulted and lose 4 of 5 warriors, then I can still reanimate and I'm rolling Ld against a 6. With LD 10 it's rare to fail leadership from shooting, so I don't need ablative wounds for that.
b) Necrons are good at last minute contesting and objective grabs. In this case, more is better --> small warrior squad wins. Caveat - only if delivered by NS or for walk on backfield objectives.
c) Warrior blobs are VERY hard to put down (if they have orbs and GA support). So, 15+ (because 30 rapid fire overwatch shots are better than 20 - 40 is better again). At 15+ you have firepower to dig yourself out of trouble whereas at 10 you don't.
d) Immortals are the unit of choice for mid-field objectives when you aren't using arks/NS. On the table the 3+ makes a BIG difference to survivability because there are a lot of weapons that have AP4. The extra strength in the shots is also nice, plus TESLA. (Ps - I personally consider 10 man Gauss immortals pointless - take a blob of warriors instead).

Final and key point - Except for wraiths with coils and MSS, Crons suck at CC. From my perspective, if one of my units gets assaulted then either I sacrificed it or I'm doing it wrong. If I sacrificed it, why increase the number of points I'm losing? Using that mentality, defensive CC weapon upgrades are usually worthless (unless guaranteed to stop the charge). The only exception for defensive CC weapons is when I have a deathstar running around. That will have defensive firepower (usually in the form of despairteks - because with them I have a good chance of stopping the charge altogether). And that's only because you can't assault in the turn you come out of reserve.

edit to clarify my comment that Crons suck at CC. It's true, just didn't want to get all the replies (what about wraiths and/or MSS).

Frankly, I'd take none of them. Think about troops, Destroyer Lord(s), Night Scythes, Wraiths, Annihilation Barges, and Doom Scythes, when you go to an RTT.