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Ok, So now that the new Chapter Tactics rules are all over the net (and the Rumors section of Dakka) what do y'all see as the most effective builds using them?

I'm thinking a drop pod Crimson Fists list with Pedro and Sternguards may be effective again (if Sternguard got significantly cheaper) but I'm also thinking a Tigerius UM list with maxed out Tac Squads in drop pods could be the way to go (?). And who got the most cost effective Chapter tactics? White Scars? -- Their bikes will be super effective with the +1 jink etc. IMHO.

If you have a ravenwing army - White Scars

I think if CC is good enough for space marines they could do really well with Shrike/Ravenguard

That or a toss up between Ultramarines/Salamanders drop pods. TL flamers/Meltas vs TL EVERYTHING!

I think Ravenguard have one of the best abilities. EVERYTHING has scout. That can provide some pretty interesting builds allowing your terminators/landraiders to scout forward or outflank. Scout movement with a landraider and you go first will definitely allow you to get in to CC pretty fast. Great for combating those Eldar and Tau.

As an aspiring Black Templar player I am not all that excited about their CTs. But I think being able to roll 3d6 for the run may help...maybe. +1 to deny the witch is also pretty handy. All their bonuses to challenge seem cool, but again, I still have to worry about getting in to CC.

Also for Thatguyoverthere11, Ultramarines will only have the TL once per game and the salamanders will only have TL flamers.

EDIT: Well it looks like Ravenguard termies dont get he scout or stealth rules because they are bulky.. But would the vehicles? It does say "models."

 Icculus wrote:
I think Ravenguard have one of the best abilities. EVERYTHING has scout. That can provide some pretty interesting builds allowing your terminators/landraiders to scout forward or outflank. Scout movement with a landraider and you go first will definitely allow you to get in to CC pretty fast. Great for combating those Eldar and Tau.

Note that units that include models with the Bulky or Very Bulky Special Rules do not benefit from either rule.

So, no scouting/outflanking terminators.

For certain, going with max or near max tac squads along with Tigurius is the build I'm going to try first. Even with only one turn of twin-linking, if you drop 3 pods, plus whatever shooting is waiting around in your deployment zone, that could lead to enough damage right on turn one that it isn't relevant that you won't be twin linked the rest of the game. Plus, Tigurius can twin link one unit per turn with Divination, and he is guaranteed the best warlord trait in the book which allows even more twin-linked shooting! MEQ bodies might not be the unkillable monsters that they are in the fluff, but 50-60 of them, scoring, and dropping wherever you want them to, is going to be more than a challenge for anybody.

Additionally, the most powerful armies right now are probably Tau and Eldar. Thunderfire Cannons and Whirlwinds (which are now much cheaper) are both amazing and eliminating lightly armored guard and xenos infantry, and Tigurius has a very good chance of getting Perfect Timing if he wants it, which should help marines take out whoever is hiding behind an aegis as well as take cover saves away from those ungodly Wave Serpents.

As always, Ultramarines will struggle with Helldrakes, but I like the boys in blue's chances aside from that.

I think the best tactic will be Feel no pain (6+) and IWND on vehicles.

IWND alone i think will make rifle dread spam viable.

 tomjoad wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
I think Ravenguard have one of the best abilities. EVERYTHING has scout. That can provide some pretty interesting builds allowing your terminators/landraiders to scout forward or outflank. Scout movement with a landraider and you go first will definitely allow you to get in to CC pretty fast. Great for combating those Eldar and Tau.

Note that units that include models with the Bulky or Very Bulky Special Rules do not benefit from either rule.

So, no scouting/outflanking terminators.

Yeah I realized that almost immediately. Same thing goes for the vehicles. But you could outflank/scout rhinos because they are dedicated transports. Stealth on first turn is also going to help alot with getting in to close combat simply for the sake of being able to survive the barrage of oncoming fire for a turn. Assault marines will now actually be really good at their name sake. But the problem is that they will still be fast attack choices and not troops. But you outlfank a few rhinos/razorbacks if possible and use scout/stealth to run your assault marines straight forward to the enemy.

Then maybe ally in some IHs to get some back field artillery in a Whirlwind or like he said a riflemen dread.

 Icculus wrote:

 tomjoad wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
I think Ravenguard have one of the best abilities. EVERYTHING has scout. That can provide some pretty interesting builds allowing your terminators/landraiders to scout forward or outflank. Scout movement with a landraider and you go first will definitely allow you to get in to CC pretty fast. Great for combating those Eldar and Tau.

Note that units that include models with the Bulky or Very Bulky Special Rules do not benefit from either rule.

So, no scouting/outflanking terminators.

Yeah I realized that almost immediately. Same thing goes for the vehicles. But you could outflank/scout rhinos because they are dedicated transports. Stealth on first turn is also going to help alot with getting in to close combat simply for the sake of being able to survive the barrage of oncoming fire for a turn. Assault marines will now actually be really good at their name sake. But the problem is that they will still be fast attack choices and not troops. But you outlfank a few rhinos/razorbacks if possible and use scout/stealth to run your assault marines straight forward to the enemy.

Then maybe ally in some IHs to get some back field artillery in a Whirlwind or like he said a riflemen dread.

Don't Jump Infantry also have the Bulky rule? I don't have my BRB in front of me, but I thought that was one of the random rules they got as part of their quasi-unit type.

TehCheator wrote:

 Icculus wrote:

 tomjoad wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
I think Ravenguard have one of the best abilities. EVERYTHING has scout. That can provide some pretty interesting builds allowing your terminators/landraiders to scout forward or outflank. Scout movement with a landraider and you go first will definitely allow you to get in to CC pretty fast. Great for combating those Eldar and Tau.

Note that units that include models with the Bulky or Very Bulky Special Rules do not benefit from either rule.

So, no scouting/outflanking terminators.

Yeah I realized that almost immediately. Same thing goes for the vehicles. But you could outflank/scout rhinos because they are dedicated transports. Stealth on first turn is also going to help alot with getting in to close combat simply for the sake of being able to survive the barrage of oncoming fire for a turn. Assault marines will now actually be really good at their name sake. But the problem is that they will still be fast attack choices and not troops. But you outlfank a few rhinos/razorbacks if possible and use scout/stealth to run your assault marines straight forward to the enemy.

Then maybe ally in some IHs to get some back field artillery in a Whirlwind or like he said a riflemen dread.

Don't Jump Infantry also have the Bulky rule? I don't have my BRB in front of me, but I thought that was one of the random rules they got as part of their quasi-unit type.

Oh man, you may be right. Well it looks like the Raven Guard tactics are looking less and less impressive. I mean, there is still some neat things you can do with scouting marines and infiltrating rhinos with marines. And assault marines will be faster. So Maybe it went from what i thought was the best tactic to a kind of nifty tactic just because of that one stipulation.

Jump infantry ARE bulky. I think the scout and stealth bits are meant to improve the less noted thing Raven Guard are good at (Scouts) and then they have the jump pack rules to help their assault marines. I think this is GW incentivizing people to deep strike (I'm seeing a lot of this heavy handed game design in this codex, actually) but I'm not sure it will work. There is SO MUCH Ignores Cover weaponry that stealth, as nice as it can be, will just be useless against Tau, templates, and vector strikes, and three things that a great many armies use.

Well for me its the IF tactic , i have a mix ultramarine and Crimson fist army and now i am seriously thinking in painting the ultramarines models with the red hands to represent a full force of crimson fist since there armour colour is the same, or since we can ally with our own codex put 60 sternguards on the table and watch the opponent ragequit.

Let me go check my book to see which I think will make the best army...

White Scars really look like they'll be fun. I always liked bikes, so I'll have fun with even more special rules.

If you allied with another C:SM, wouldn't 40 Sternguard be the highest you could get anyhow.

3 Elites for your main force, and another 1 Elite for your ally.

Im very happy about the UM tactics, initially I was worried that they'd be OP and Id be called a bandwagon jumper, but its looking like they might be the most thinky' of the lot.

To fully benefit from UM tactics, you will have to take some dev element, some assault element and a compliment of tactical squads. It discourages minmaxing, it Requires some thought about when to pop which tactics, and although I'm a little chafed about getting some really bombastic SC's, its looking like some other toons outshine them for push button effect.

I don't want to jump on the White Scars > Ravenwing band wagon yet.

It all will come down to point costs. Ravenwing can get incredible amounts of firepower with the bolter banner. Each ravenwing biker is putting out 400% more firepower than a White Scars bike at 24"

I expect that White Scars will be more Resilient per Point (RPP) and Ravenwing will have more Dakka per Point (DPP)

I think UM and IH are the best overall as they work with pretty much any army list. The other CTs really force you down certain paths if you want to get your "money's worth".

I could see tourney players got for specific builds with any particular CT, but anyone wanting to collect a varied force will want one of those two.

I don't know about you all, but I really liked a lot of the chapter tactics for the different chapters. How do I plan on solving the dilemma on which one to play? Make my own chapter and color scheme, and do a "counts as" each time so I can play all of them at some point or another.

You guys make some outstanding points and have given me all kinds of food for thought. I actually have a White Scars army that is going to cease gathering dust now I think.

I wonder how broadly Khan's ability to turn bikes into troops can be applied (?). Would Scout Bike squads also get to be troop choices? I doubt it, but if they too were troops you could come up with terribly bike-troop spammy lists.

Also something to keep in mind with a White Scars list is that, as I understand it, Bike Troops cannot go up elevations/floors in Ruins and a devious opponent will see your bike list and invariably place objectives in places bikes cannot go -- probably game over for you if you took ALL your Troops as bikes, since you will not be able to control those elevated objectives.

That will be interesting to see some FW characters like Shadow Captain Korvydae will do in the game. My Raven Guard will got a great boost.

 Nurgle's Head Cheese wrote:
You guys make some outstanding points and have given me all kinds of food for thought. I actually have a White Scars army that is going to cease gathering dust now I think.

I wonder how broadly Khan's ability to turn bikes into troops can be applied (?). Would Scout Bike squads also get to be troop choices? I doubt it, but if they too were troops you could come up with terribly bike-troop spammy lists.

Also something to keep in mind with a White Scars list is that, as I understand it, Bike Troops cannot go up elevations/floors in Ruins and a devious opponent will see your bike list and invariably place objectives in places bikes cannot go -- probably game over for you if you took ALL your Troops as bikes, since you will not be able to control those elevated objectives.

There are ways around this, including simply ignoring those objectives and getting the rest, and clever objective placement on your part. I also think adding scouts is a decent idea - they fit nicely with the White Scars feel, especially now that the LSS will be a dedicated transport.

Iron Hands are honestly the ones who scare me the most.

Multiple land raiders, backed by the improved repair of tech-marines and masters of the forge blending into the squads inside, it will be hard to deal with. just hope you dont need to be 10 to take special guns, or being a "mere" 9 guys and IC will be a bummer.

And the across-the-field FnP if quite handy, even on a mere 6+ it gives that extra bit of durability to your squads.
It even makes the TFC better, if you somehow lose the cannon-the techy can still go a good repair job.

Plus, improves TFC, as the "spare" techmarine can actually do something useful now if the cannon pops with the +1 to repair rolls.

 Hedgehog wrote:

 Nurgle's Head Cheese wrote:
You guys make some outstanding points and have given me all kinds of food for thought. I actually have a White Scars army that is going to cease gathering dust now I think.

I wonder how broadly Khan's ability to turn bikes into troops can be applied (?). Would Scout Bike squads also get to be troop choices? I doubt it, but if they too were troops you could come up with terribly bike-troop spammy lists.

Also something to keep in mind with a White Scars list is that, as I understand it, Bike Troops cannot go up elevations/floors in Ruins and a devious opponent will see your bike list and invariably place objectives in places bikes cannot go -- probably game over for you if you took ALL your Troops as bikes, since you will not be able to control those elevated objectives.

There are ways around this, including simply ignoring those objectives and getting the rest, and clever objective placement on your part. I also think adding scouts is a decent idea - they fit nicely with the White Scars feel, especially now that the LSS will be a dedicated transport.

Precisely this.