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Article

When James Glaser stepped into Big I’s Restaurant in Oxford, Massachusetts with his service dog Jack, he was quickly told to leave in no uncertain terms. Glaser, a 41-year-old Air Force veteran, was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder in November of 2011 when he retired and says that he does not leave his house without Jack by his side. The veteran explained what happened to WHDH 7 News, “I hear, ‘Get that fake service dog out of my restaurant!.’” Big I’s owner, Russell Ireland didn’t consider the canine a true service dog and said, “This is a post-traumatic stress dog. It's to give him emotional support. How much emotional support do you need when you are eating breakfast?”

James grabbed Jack’s paperwork to show the doubting owner that he was indeed a legitimate service dog but was still given a fight. He told WFXT FOX 25 News, “I said, ‘I have his certification paperwork right here. He’s not fake, he’s 100% legit.’ He like, ‘I don’t give a [expletive]. I don’t have time for that. Get out of my restaurant.’” So James called the police and Sergeant Anthony Saad with the Oxford PD confirmed the dog’s paperwork and attempted to convince Ireland. While no charges were brought, the Iraq Vet says he will file a complaint with the Americans with Disabilities Act which states that businesses must, “allow someone with PTSD to bring in a service animal that has been trained to calm the person when he or she has an anxiety attack.” James said, “Got 21 distinguished years in the military. After everything we’ve done, we just shouldn’t be treated like that.”


Damn right you shouldn't James.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/29 01:46:33


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The Great State of Texas

Where's an A-10 with a napalm strike when you need it.

Hopefully word will spread and this place will be gone in three months.

Make him pay.

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It's a shame the employees will have to suffer over that asstards actions.

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 djones520 wrote:
It's a shame the employees will have to suffer over that asstards actions.


True, although I imagine the asstard in question was already giving hell to his employees. He certainly doesn't seem very stable.

Just curious, but what could happen to him, as a result of the complaint? A fine? A censure?

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The Great State of Texas

Is this a common sentiment in Massachusetts?

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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I think a fine could occur. The bad press over the issue is what will sink the place though. That does more then anything else.

Not to long ago we head a IHOP down the road tell police officers to leave, and that they weren't welcome if they were armed. After it hit national media... well it was amazing how quickly IHOP changed it's tune.

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Being that my former wife (ex now) is from Mass I had plenty of oppurtunities to meet the locals there. They are not military friendly. Couple of times when I was carded to get a beer at meals they wouldn't accept a military ID card.

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Isn't it illegal to boot someone because they have a service animal?

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Do we already have a thread on this... I could also be going mad its hard to say.

Also "Restarount"?


OT. Well the owner sounds like a unpleasent individual


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 Grey Templar wrote:
Isn't it illegal to boot someone because they have a service animal?



Yes. It's similar to booting someone for any other reason that people aren't allowed to discriminate against.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/28 05:18:45


   
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I would strongly advise people reacting in this thread to research the difference between a service animal and a companion animal.

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More details I heard a bit of on MA radio this morning- that the vet had been to the restaurant a few times previously and the restaurant owner claimed that the service dog was acting up/bothering other customers. To my understanding, per the ADA, one of the requirements for being allowed to bring your service animal places where pets aren't normally allowed is that it has to stay under close control; either harnessed or responding to voice commands.

The restaurant owner did make a public apology already, stating that he handled it badly. Which he surely did, even if the dog had acted up previously, it sure seems that he handled it very unprofessionally.

 Jihadin wrote:
Being that my former wife (ex now) is from Mass I had plenty of oppurtunities to meet the locals there. They are not military friendly. Couple of times when I was carded to get a beer at meals they wouldn't accept a military ID card.

I've never heard/seen that about MA, but obviously your first hand experience trumps my secondhand. I used to carry military ID when I was a teenager, due to my dad being active duty. IME in several states around the country, lots of folks are unfamiliar with it and reluctant to take it, unless they're ex-military or you're near a large base, and the local businesses all get used to seeing them regularly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/28 06:09:52


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Hordini wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
Isn't it illegal to boot someone because they have a service animal?



Yes. It's similar to booting someone for any other reason that people aren't allowed to discriminate against.


I don't know about Mass, but many states have laws that are really in favor of business owners when it comes to denying service. If this happened in Illinois, then legally the business owner would probably be just fine. (He'd be allowed to deny service for any reason, and it wouldn't be hard to make something plausible up.)

Jihadin wrote:Being that my former wife (ex now) is from Mass I had plenty of oppurtunities to meet the locals there. They are not military friendly. Couple of times when I was carded to get a beer at meals they wouldn't accept a military ID card.


When I worked in a job carding people, we were told that military IDs were not valid ones. Both our company and our area is very military friendly. We also weren't allowed to accept college IDs, work IDs, or anything other than a valid driver's license, passport, state ID, or (for some reason) diplomatic service ID.

Frazzled wrote:Is this a common sentiment in Massachusetts?


I think it might be a common sentiment not in a state, necessarily, but among people who don't understand the severity an anxiety attack in a PTSD patent can have. I can easily see how someone who hasn't given it a great deal of thought, or who has no prior experience, can dismiss something like that without understanding the true nature of the problem.

Still, the establishment owner crossed the line by a great deal, and someone needs to show him where the hog ate the proverbial cabbage.

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Ramsden Heath, Essex

Excuse my ignorance by why is a type of card so important in the US? Is this purely a proof of age thing for drinks?

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Dorset, Southern England

Not sure how it works over in the states, but over here unless it's a guide dog you can't go into many public buildings with it. We don't really have "service animals" though, so I can't really say much.

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Service animals are covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act.

http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
Overview
This publication provides guidance on the term “service animal” and the service animal provisions in the Department’s new regulations.

Beginning on March 15, 2011, only dogs are recognized as service animals under titles II and III of the ADA.
A service animal is a dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for a person with a disability.
Generally, title II and title III entities must permit service animals to accompany people with disabilities in all areas where members of the public are allowed to go.

How “Service Animal” Is Defined
Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.

This definition does not affect or limit the broader definition of “assistance animal” under the Fair Housing Act or the broader definition of “service animal” under the Air Carrier Access Act.

Some State and local laws also define service animal more broadly than the ADA does. Information about such laws can be obtained from the State attorney general’s office.

Where Service Animals Are Allowed
Under the ADA, State and local governments, businesses, and nonprofit organizations that serve the public generally must allow service animals to accompany people with disabilities in all areas of the facility where the public is normally allowed to go. For example, in a hospital it would be inappropriate to exclude a service animal from areas such as patient rooms, clinics, cafeterias, or examination rooms. However, it may be appropriate to exclude a service animal from operating rooms or burn units where the animal’s presence may compromise a sterile environment.

Service Animals Must Be Under Control
Under the ADA, service animals must be harnessed, leashed, or tethered, unless these devices interfere with the service animal’s work or the individual’s disability prevents using these devices. In that case, the individual must maintain control of the animal through voice, signal, or other effective controls.

Inquiries, Exclusions, Charges, and Other Specific Rules Related to Service Animals
When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.
Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility.
A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it or (2) the dog is not housebroken. When there is a legitimate reason to ask that a service animal be removed, staff must offer the person with the disability the opportunity to obtain goods or services without the animal’s presence.
Establishments that sell or prepare food must allow service animals in public areas even if state or local health codes prohibit animals on the premises.
People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be isolated from other patrons, treated less favorably than other patrons, or charged fees that are not charged to other patrons without animals. In addition, if a business requires a deposit or fee to be paid by patrons with pets, it must waive the charge for service animals.
If a business such as a hotel normally charges guests for damage that they cause, a customer with a disability may also be charged for damage caused by himself or his service animal.
Staff are not required to provide care or food for a service animal.

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Then yeah, that employee was being stupid.

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Gathering the Informations.

 BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Then yeah, that employee was being stupid.

Part of having a service dog is having a service dog that behaves itself.

A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it or (2) the dog is not housebroken. When there is a legitimate reason to ask that a service animal be removed, staff must offer the person with the disability the opportunity to obtain goods or services without the animal’s presence.
Establishments that sell or prepare food must allow service animals in public areas even if state or local health codes prohibit animals on the premises.
People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be isolated from other patrons, treated less favorably than other patrons, or charged fees that are not charged to other patrons without animals. In addition, if a business requires a deposit or fee to be paid by patrons with pets, it must waive the charge for service animals.
If a business such as a hotel normally charges guests for damage that they cause, a customer with a disability may also be charged for damage caused by himself or his service animal.
Staff are not required to provide care or food for a service animal.
   
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Mesopotamia. The Kingdom Where we Secretly Reign.

Even if the dog wasn't acting right the owner wasn't behaving professionally. I mean, we all have bad days so I'm not saying he's satan or anything, but this particular bad day is sort of blowing up in his face.

There are a lot of bogus service animals out there, though. Just because someone is a veteran doesn't make them automatically right, or subject to preferential treatment. It's common practice at many, if not all, hotels (at least in California) to ask: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform.

Based on these criteria, I think that an argument could be made that, since according to the articles on this case the dog has been trained to help the man in question deal with nightmares, it's not necessary for the animal to be with him at the restaurant.

Also, if the dog is acting up, there's another issue. Not to mention that the owner seemed to be behaving in a way that caused the owner to feel that there were hygiene issues to be addressed.

So yeah, I think the owner should have handled this differently, but if you aren't reacting emotionally to the buzz words "veteran" and "service animal" this is a much less black and white issue.

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 Monster Rain wrote:
Even if the dog wasn't acting right the owner wasn't behaving professionally. I mean, we all have bad days so I'm not saying he's satan or anything, but this particular bad day is sort of blowing up in his face.

There are a lot of bogus service animals out there, though. Just because someone is a veteran doesn't make them automatically right, or subject to preferential treatment. It's common practice at many, if not all, hotels (at least in California) to ask: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform.

Based on these criteria, I think that an argument could be made that, since according to the articles on this case the dog has been trained to help the man in question deal with nightmares, it's not necessary for the animal to be with him at the restaurant.


Whether you think he needed the dog there or not, he had the proper paperwork allowing him to have that dog there and he should not have been turned away.

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Actually, you saying that means you don't quite understand the subject matter.

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 Monster Rain wrote:
Actually, you saying that means you don't quite understand the subject matter.


Would you please clarify for my personal enlightenment?

"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa

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If you read the ADA requirements as posted above, and compare it with the store owner's original account of why he found the dog to be a problem, you can see that there may have been ample reason to have the dog removed.

I mean, once you start cursing at a customer you're automatically wrong, so I'm not defending that guy's actions, but a service animal has a specific definition that this dog arguably wasn't meeting.

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Seems like a pretty extreme reaction. Even if the dog had acted up in the past there is no doubt the restaurant owner could have handled this all much better. Seems like it all escalated rather quickly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/28 16:17:36



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 Monster Rain wrote:
If you read the ADA requirements as posted above, and compare it with the store owner's original account of why he found the dog to be a problem, you can see that there may have been ample reason to have the dog removed.

I mean, once you start cursing at a customer you're automatically wrong, so I'm not defending that guy's actions, but a service animal has a specific definition that this dog arguably wasn't meeting.


Perhaps I'm missing what you're trying to say. Are you arguing that the animal in question may not even qualify as a service animal according to those requirements?

"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa

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Gathering the Informations.

 ironicsilence wrote:
Seems like a pretty extreme reaction. Even if the dog had acted up in the past there is no doubt the restaurant owner could have handled this all much better. Seems like it all escalated rather quickly.

True, but the obvious "This guy wronged a veteran for no reason!" sentiment which got stirred up from reporting the story as it has been already led to the restaurant owner being threatened and harassed.

It would be nice if Yahoo, Fox, etc would actually report on the fact that the service dog seems to have been poorly trained. It does not excuse Ireland's actions but it does actually make it so that the story is not just "Veteran wronged for no reason at all!".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
 Monster Rain wrote:
If you read the ADA requirements as posted above, and compare it with the store owner's original account of why he found the dog to be a problem, you can see that there may have been ample reason to have the dog removed.

I mean, once you start cursing at a customer you're automatically wrong, so I'm not defending that guy's actions, but a service animal has a specific definition that this dog arguably wasn't meeting.


Perhaps I'm missing what you're trying to say. Are you arguing that the animal in question may not even qualify as a service animal according to those requirements?

He's saying to READ.

A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it or (2) the dog is not housebroken. When there is a legitimate reason to ask that a service animal be removed, staff must offer the person with the disability the opportunity to obtain goods or services without the animal’s presence.
Establishments that sell or prepare food must allow service animals in public areas even if state or local health codes prohibit animals on the premises.
People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be isolated from other patrons, treated less favorably than other patrons, or charged fees that are not charged to other patrons without animals. In addition, if a business requires a deposit or fee to be paid by patrons with pets, it must waive the charge for service animals.
If a business such as a hotel normally charges guests for damage that they cause, a customer with a disability may also be charged for damage caused by himself or his service animal.
Staff are not required to provide care or food for a service animal.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/28 16:25:14


 
   
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WA

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
 Monster Rain wrote:
If you read the ADA requirements as posted above, and compare it with the store owner's original account of why he found the dog to be a problem, you can see that there may have been ample reason to have the dog removed.

I mean, once you start cursing at a customer you're automatically wrong, so I'm not defending that guy's actions, but a service animal has a specific definition that this dog arguably wasn't meeting.


Perhaps I'm missing what you're trying to say. Are you arguing that the animal in question may not even qualify as a service animal according to those requirements?

He's saying to READ.

A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it or (2) the dog is not housebroken. When there is a legitimate reason to ask that a service animal be removed, staff must offer the person with the disability the opportunity to obtain goods or services without the animal’s presence.
Establishments that sell or prepare food must allow service animals in public areas even if state or local health codes prohibit animals on the premises.
People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be isolated from other patrons, treated less favorably than other patrons, or charged fees that are not charged to other patrons without animals. In addition, if a business requires a deposit or fee to be paid by patrons with pets, it must waive the charge for service animals.
If a business such as a hotel normally charges guests for damage that they cause, a customer with a disability may also be charged for damage caused by himself or his service animal.
Staff are not required to provide care or food for a service animal.


What I'm curious about is what people find as a legitimate reason to not have him in there with his service animal. I saw a poster mention something about a violent history with that dog? I didn't see that anywhere mentioned in the article perhaps I missed it?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/28 16:38:06


"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa

"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch

FREEDOM!!!
- d-usa 
   
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Gathering the Informations.

Mannahnin, who seemingly lives in MA, mentioned that a radio station reported that Ireland(the owner of the restaurant) stated that the dog and its owner had been there before and the dog would act up and bother other customers.

If a service animal is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it? It's not fulfilling its role as a service animal.

Again, I don't agree with Ireland being abusive to the guy but if the dog is acting up then the ADA provisions for service animals do not apply.
   
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WA

 Kanluwen wrote:
Mannahnin, who seemingly lives in MA, mentioned that a radio station reported that Ireland(the owner of the restaurant) stated that the dog and its owner had been there before and the dog would act up and bother other customers.

If a service animal is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it? It's not fulfilling its role as a service animal.

Again, I don't agree with Ireland being abusive to the guy but if the dog is acting up then the ADA provisions for service animals do not apply.


Ah, I missed Mannahnin's post. My apologies!

"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa

"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch

FREEDOM!!!
- d-usa 
   
 
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