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Does anyone still use it?
It seems most Necron players are using scythes for everything now, but 6th edition snapfire could make the warrior block pretty cool again. Imagine this: res orb, ghost arks, and a blob of warriors bearing down towards you. Sure it would be slow (phaeron seems useless now) but it should be very hard to kill. Maybe use the arks for cover fire, toss Mindshackle on your overlord and then have him lead out front absorbing all the cc wounds. Maybe the warriors never die! What do you guys think?

Cool or better off investing in something else?

I use it and it's quite effective.
Contrary to popular believe, not every Necron-player uses 4 flyers.

It could definitely work. Just know that it's probably not the most 'competitive' way to play (which is completely fine, and will preform well.)

Things to be aware of is the phalanx's weakness if close combat. There's nothing worst than having a 20 unit warrior blob get swept by the enemy.

So, it's up to your list to prevent that from happening. Necrons do well when their list has strong synergy to 'help' each other.

Weak CC? Maybe throw some wraiths or even scarabs to body block/tarpit/intercept enemy CC groups.

Or just position yourself so you deny cc. stay within 20-24 inch and just shoot them down. no need to go close when you have a few 20-man blobs.

I'll leave the rest for the other forum members to add!

Kangodo wrote:
I use it and it's quite effective.
Contrary to popular believe, not every Necron-player uses 4 flyers.

Cool, I've just finished putting together my army today and really am trying to go the warrior route. I only bought the battleforce and anilihation barge so far, but I made the ark into a ghost ark just for that strategy. I figure death marks and AB can help draw fire away from the blob of hard to put down warriors.

Have you had any problems with particular units from other armies whiping your unit out before it can replenish its ranks?


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Dakkon wrote:
It could definitely work. Just know that it's probably not the most 'competitive' way to play (which is completely fine, and will preform well.)

Things to be aware of is the phalanx's weakness if close combat. There's nothing worst than having a 20 unit warrior blob get swept by the enemy.

So, it's up to your list to prevent that from happening. Necrons do well when their list has strong synergy to 'help' each other.

Weak CC? Maybe throw some wraiths or even scarabs to body block/tarpit/intercept enemy CC groups.

Or just position yourself so you deny cc. stay within 20-24 inch and just shoot them down. no need to go close when you have a few 20-man blobs.

I'll leave the rest for the other forum members to add!

Good call on the body block! Forgive me I'm a noob but would scarabs still grant a cover save to the warriors behind them? I was thinking about using the ark for cover but i guess that would suck if it went down early.

 Kevcron wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
I use it and it's quite effective.
Contrary to popular believe, not every Necron-player uses 4 flyers.

Cool, I've just finished putting together my army today and really am trying to go the warrior route. I only bought the battleforce and anilihation barge so far, but I made the ark into a ghost ark just for that strategy. I figure death marks and AB can help draw fire away from the blob of hard to put down warriors.

Have you had any problems with particular units from other armies whiping your unit out before it can replenish its ranks?

Manticores smash warrior blobs like there is no tomorrow, as do griffons, hellturkeys, large amounts of heavy bolters and pretty much every other source of AP 4 en-masse.

It is because of this that I think that warrior phlanx is not very competitive at all.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Kevcron wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
I use it and it's quite effective.
Contrary to popular believe, not every Necron-player uses 4 flyers.

Cool, I've just finished putting together my army today and really am trying to go the warrior route. I only bought the battleforce and anilihation barge so far, but I made the ark into a ghost ark just for that strategy. I figure death marks and AB can help draw fire away from the blob of hard to put down warriors.

Have you had any problems with particular units from other armies whiping your unit out before it can replenish its ranks?

Manticores smash warrior blobs like there is no tomorrow, as do griffons, hellturkeys, large amounts of heavy bolters and pretty much every other source of AP 4 en-masse.

It is because of this that I think that warrior phlanx is not very competitive at all.

:-( darn. Would you recommend using AB's, death marks, and other types of units to take down the AP 4 guys or minimizing use of warriors in general for say immortals? It's just so disheartening to hear "warriors aren't competitive" because I think they would make for a fun army.

It's very fun, and res orbs and ghost arks help, but you're gaining a half dozen back a turn at best, and a single Heldrake can drop that many or more. They aren't Tervigon levels of spam, they are to slow to dance most units, but you have the best AV horde in the game.

It is very competive against Heavy Armor list, possible Gaurd and Mech SM type builds.

Go with Wraiths as the support, and maybe break into several 8 man squads and go full court with teks and lords all sprinkled in. Just a massive wave of MSU warrior courts and wraiths.

Might be an option, but when people say competitive they usually mean best bang for your buck, and given at least 1/3 or the armies out there aren't equipped to take down Necron Flyers, the "competitiveness" of flyers is kinda whacked.

I forget the IC name, but the guy who causes darkness and rains lightning. Throw him in to limit the enemies sight distance.

Manticores smash warrior blobs like there is no tomorrow, as do griffons, hellturkeys, large amounts of heavy bolters and pretty much every other source of AP 4 en-masse.

It is because of this that I think that warrior phlanx is not very competitive at all.

Um, if Helldrakes invalidate Warrior blobs by there mere existence then they invalidate every Space Marine army in the game, because Warriors at least have RP to fall back on, giving them completely superior RPP numbers.

Seriously, this is just tragically wrong. It's like saying the new Tau invalidate Cron Air because of their efficient anti-air.

Spread out if you are fighting things like Hellturkeys, and use cover if you are facing AP 4 en-masse. It's not that complicated. I never lose more then a couple of bases per Hellturkey salvo. They are, quite literally, the least of my worries as a Necron player who always includes one blob of Warriors.

I forget the IC name, but the guy who causes darkness and rains lightning. Throw him in to limit the enemies sight distance.

Imotekh, ironically the name of the poster who is bashing this strategy...

Kevcron

Ignore the haters. The key to making a blob work are resiliency and contingency. IE, make it at least "competent" in CC and it will function much better. This is why Phaeron most certainly isn't worthless, as 40 Gauss Flayer Shots followed by 40 CC attacks is quite respectable, no matter who you are assaulting. Toss in a WS/MSS Lord/Overlord, and you mean business. Not strong enough to take out a full CC army on its own, of course. But plenty strong enough to finish a weakened opponent off if it gets close.

The other good support options have already been mentioned. Res Orbs are good, and Ghost Arcs are great. I wouldn't recommend more then 1 or 2 blocks at the most though, to leave room for other elements.

My 2 cents.



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but you're gaining a half dozen back a turn at best, and a single Heldrake can drop that many or more.

If you have more then 4 bases per turn getting hit by Flame templates, you really need to work on your spacing.

Question 1

If you put warriors behind the ghost arc do they get a cover save of the 5+ or.. can they not be seen at all?

Assuming say a 5-10 man squad behind and the arc is parallel to your deployment zone table edge.

Also.. can your models shoot at a squad 24" away if they are behind the arc as mentioned?

Yes, and yes. In that, GA's generally provide cover, not true LOS blocking. It's possible to block LOS with them, but it's pretty limited and requires a rather specific angle and way of spreading them out.

I wouldn't worry too much about Heldrakes. They get in 2 hits in an average turn with the gun and about 4 with a baleflamer. This should not hurt you too much. 33% of the models come back from RP and Ghost Arks add 1D3 each. I made good experiences with Ghost Arks, they protect units, they restore models and they have their gauss flayers. Not to forget that they are open topped so the warriors can fire.

I am both amused and saddened by people who think the only way to play 'Crons is with tons of Nightscythes.

Run your Phalanx, my good man. Follow the advice given in this thread and you should do well.
(additionally, consider running a shooty RCDI to hijack the Ghost Ark. Makes for one scary gunboat, if you're facing Marines)

Stupid question, what is a "RCDI"? Can't figure it out right now

 Murenius wrote:
Stupid question, what is a "RCDI"? Can't figure it out right now

Royal Court Disco Inferno

It's the all Cryptek/Lord party team.

Sorry,
Royal Court Disco Inferno.
It's the nickname given to a full Royal Court that sticks together instead of breaking up to join other units.

A choppy RCDI would be 5 Lords (Warscythes, Weave, MSS, Tes.Labs, one carrying a ResOrb) and various support Harbingers (1x Chrono-tek, 1x Destruc-tek w/Gaze, 1x Storm-tek w/Lightning, 1x Tremor-tek w/Crucible, etc.)

A shooty RCDI is either a bunch of Destruc-teks + Chrono-tek for anti-vehicle/Terminator duty, or 5 Lords + 5 generic Crypteks all using Staves of Light for enough S5 AP3 shots to make MEQ players cry blood.

Either way, super expensive, but if played properly, can steamroll its way through many armies.


Ack! Ninja'd by Shadar!

Another vote of confidence for the warrior blob. I run 2 barges, one with 10 inside, 1 empty bought for the 20 on foot.

Arks ride on either side, shooting stuff and the blob has an overlord with Res Orb standing everything back up.

I'm adding up to 6 warriors back in a turn from the arks. You either shoot my blob and it keeps coming back, or shoot my arks and have a block of nasties in your face. Lose/lose.

If my block dies (only happened once) the group of ten can jump out and gain the double ark benefit if need be.

Worked fine against any opponent I've played, friendly, competitive and any codex. Heck, some locals think it's cheesier than croissant spam now.

Having a ton of fun with it under IA12 Necron rules. First round of combat I get 20 (40 with a Phaeron charge) shred attacks for 10 points? Yes, please!

^
May want to try running it some time as two units of 15+ Warriors with ResOrb Lords between two Ghost Arks for a true Phalanx.
Both units very hard to put down, Arks providing bodies to either if needs be.
I typically run them with some kind of CC support as assault deterrent (Wraiths, Lychguard, even Scarabs could work well, with Spyders keeping up behind, repairing the Ghost Arks)

Speaking as someone who plays against this kind of cron army very frequently, it is certainly effective, 30-40 warriors are difficultto remove with shooting, even more so with the arks. The major weakness with this type of list is things that can get into CC quickly, as a couple of squads of DP ASM can usually take a turn of fire hiding behind the Drop pod and then hit hard enough the next turn to run down a warrior squad, so make sure you have a plan to counter DS CC units, or fast units like TWC.

I find 15 is the sweet spot for warrior squad sizes, 10 is too small and 20 is a little unwieldy when trying to manoeuvre and apply force concentration. Keep a Semp Res Orb Scythe lord in each one, and they become pretty tough and have the potential to take the punch out of CC units with challenges.

Other good additions to this kind of list are a D-Lord and wraiths for countering your CC weakness, a maxed squad of immortals for some resilience to AP4 and a nice boost to defensive firepower with tesla. A couple of anni barges make a good, fast detachment to move up a flank and put down most threats, they are great against infantry as well as medium vehicles (and good at forcing saves on MCs as well). Finally, a Triarch Stalker can be really good here, AV13 in cover (just stand him behind some warriors or between a couple of arks) is pretty tough, and the ability to TL fire is an excellent force multiplier for your warrior squads.

 Kevcron wrote:
Cool, I've just finished putting together my army today and really am trying to go the warrior route. I only bought the battleforce and anilihation barge so far, but I made the ark into a ghost ark just for that strategy. I figure death marks and AB can help draw fire away from the blob of hard to put down warriors.

Have you had any problems with particular units from other armies whiping your unit out before it can replenish its ranks?

Mostly stuff that can put out mass-AP4 wounds, that's a pain in the ass.
So yeah: Imperial Guard artillery hurts! That's why I want Night Fighting or long ranged AT-equipment.

For this tactic, I think including Zahndrekh would be really good. He's got the 2+, 3++, and Res Orb to tank / buff the squad he joins, plus he gives you the ability to strip special rules from your opponents and give your own units extra stuff (Tank Hunter if you need to drag down a heavy vehicle, counter-attack if you know you're about to get charged, etc.)

Depending on the points, including Obyron as well would be cool, because that way you can port your big blobs around if needed, and pull them out of combat if you happen to get stuck in against something that's going to tie you up for a long time.

I haven't run the cron blob but I believe it to be viable. Canny placement of Lords with Orbs, Ghost Arks etc are useful for topping them up. You basically have bolters though so against MEQ some better AP weapons would be useful. I'd also use immortals for the increased save and weapon power dotted about, you have less men but they're tougher and more powerful.
Similar to Green Tide lists, you may want some distraction units like Scarabs or FOs to tie down shoots units or destroy vehicles

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Yes, and yes. In that, GA's generally provide cover, not true LOS blocking. It's possible to block LOS with them, but it's pretty limited and requires a rather specific angle and way of spreading them out.

Thanks for that!

How about the warriors shooting back? you would surely have to argue with someone that the warriors lay like snipers to be able to see behind the arc? I can see being able to fire AT the warriors because LOS means people can see there legs but the other way around?

bodazoka wrote:

How about the warriors shooting back? you would surely have to argue with someone that the warriors lay like snipers to be able to see behind the arc? I can see being able to fire AT the warriors because LOS means people can see there legs but the other way around?

The rules are pretty clear about that. Each of your models that can see at least part of one model in the target unit can fire. The target gets a cover save if it is obstructed for at least one shooter when allocating a wound to it. So in your particular case the Ghost Arc will most likely provide cover to the target, but you may shoot.

And if your game revolves about discussing questions like "this unit is in cover" or "they may not shoot" you are playing with the wrong people. Discussions like this have made a lot of people quit the game. We have a house rule in our local group: if such a discussion starts it's always decided in favor of the asked question (so units get cover when in doubt and units may rather shoot than not when in doubt). This has saved us a lot of time and alltogether everyone has more fun, cause next time it will be your unit that gets its cover save.

I love these forums! Haha I have sooo many new ideas to try out now. You guys are awesome.

I definitely need to grab some wraiths, scarabs, and maybe a spyder or two to help dissuade assaults, but I also love the idea of making my warriors competent in CC. I.e. an OL with WS and MSS, but where woud you guys place him in the blob? Front to absorb hits and maybe get look out sirs (which honestly confuse me some) or in the back rezzing troops and picking his nose? Maybe a destructotek too?


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ShadarLogoth wrote:

Manticores smash warrior blobs like there is no tomorrow, as do griffons, hellturkeys, large amounts of heavy bolters and pretty much every other source of AP 4 en-masse.

It is because of this that I think that warrior phlanx is not very competitive at all.

Um, if Helldrakes invalidate Warrior blobs by there mere existence then they invalidate every Space Marine army in the game, because Warriors at least have RP to fall back on, giving them completely superior RPP numbers.

Seriously, this is just tragically wrong. It's like saying the new Tau invalidate Cron Air because of their efficient anti-air.

Spread out if you are fighting things like Hellturkeys, and use cover if you are facing AP 4 en-masse. It's not that complicated. I never lose more then a couple of bases per Hellturkey salvo. They are, quite literally, the least of my worries as a Necron player who always includes one blob of Warriors.

I forget the IC name, but the guy who causes darkness and rains lightning. Throw him in to limit the enemies sight distance.

Imotekh, ironically the name of the poster who is bashing this strategy...

Kevcron

Ignore the haters. The key to making a blob work are resiliency and contingency. IE, make it at least "competent" in CC and it will function much better. This is why Phaeron most certainly isn't worthless, as 40 Gauss Flayer Shots followed by 40 CC attacks is quite respectable, no matter who you are assaulting. Toss in a WS/MSS Lord/Overlord, and you mean business. Not strong enough to take out a full CC army on its own, of course. But plenty strong enough to finish a weakened opponent off if it gets close.

The other good support options have already been mentioned. Res Orbs are good, and Ghost Arcs are great. I wouldn't recommend more then 1 or 2 blocks at the most though, to leave room for other elements.

My 2 cents.



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but you're gaining a half dozen back a turn at best, and a single Heldrake can drop that many or more.

If you have more then 4 bases per turn getting hit by Flame templates, you really need to work on your spacing.

Appreciate the thoughtful response, but I know I'm missing something here so I'll just throw it out there and get noobed lol: wouldn't it be better to not assault and get the overwatch shots instead, especially since army wide initiative is 2 and you wouldn't go first anyways? I love the IDE of phaeron but I can't seem to justify using it for assaults (in my head anyways because I'm still building my army and haven't actually used it yet!)


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 skoffs wrote:
I am both amused and saddened by people who think the only way to play 'Crons is with tons of Nightscythes.

Run your Phalanx, my good man. Follow the advice given in this thread and you should do well.
(additionally, consider running a shooty RCDI to hijack the Ghost Ark. Makes for one scary gunboat, if you're facing Marines)

When I have the points to do this i definitely want to give it a try. Makes me "lol" to myself just thinking about it.


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katfude wrote:
Another vote of confidence for the warrior blob. I run 2 barges, one with 10 inside, 1 empty bought for the 20 on foot.

Arks ride on either side, shooting stuff and the blob has an overlord with Res Orb standing everything back up.

I'm adding up to 6 warriors back in a turn from the arks. You either shoot my blob and it keeps coming back, or shoot my arks and have a block of nasties in your face. Lose/lose.

If my block dies (only happened once) the group of ten can jump out and gain the double ark benefit if need be.

Worked fine against any opponent I've played, friendly, competitive and any codex. Heck, some locals think it's cheesier than croissant spam now.

Having a ton of fun with it under IA12 Necron rules. First round of combat I get 20 (40 with a Phaeron charge) shred attacks for 10 points? Yes, please!

I think I'm going to get a second battleforce and try this out. I'm paranoid of my warrior blob getting whiped out so having 'reserve' guys in an ark seem nice.

Pretty simple: combat Lords/Overlords at the front, Crypteks/Zahndrekh-esque characters at the back.

If using Wraiths/Scarabs, keep them behind something, not out in front of the Phalanxes. Their movement is enough that they should be able to get in place easily for the counter assault when needed. Something like Lychguard with shields, however, would go in front.
Spyders are tricky, though. They're tough and can really hurt things, so you kinda want them up in the action... but on the other hand, their ability to repair Ghost Atks and spawn Scarabs is pretty valuable, so you also want to keep them out of harms way if you can avoid it.

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
I haven't run the cron blob but I believe it to be viable. Canny placement of Lords with Orbs, Ghost Arks etc are useful for topping them up. You basically have bolters though so against MEQ some better AP weapons would be useful. I'd also use immortals for the increased save and weapon power dotted about, you have less men but they're tougher and more powerful.
Similar to Green Tide lists, you may want some distraction units like Scarabs or FOs to tie down shoots units or destroy vehicles

ABs for mechs i figured, aye? They're just too good not to field. I goofed and made DMs instead of immortals (only 5) though so when I get my new battleforce I'd have 5 immortals. Good for objective holding but i don't know if I'll be able to afford fielding a good sized amount of immortals to replace warriors. 5 models for lik $37 is rough :p


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 skoffs wrote:
Pretty simple: combat Lords/Overlords at the front, Crypteks/Zahndrekh-esque characters at the back.

If using Wraiths/Scarabs, keep them behind something, not out in front of the Phalanxes. Their movement is enough that they should be able to get in place easily for the counter assault when needed. Something like Lychguard with shields, however, would go in front.
Spyders are tricky, though. They're tough and can really hurt things, so you kinda want them up in the action... but on the other hand, their ability to repair Ghost Atks and spawn Scarabs is pretty valuable, so you also want to keep them out of harms way if you can avoid it.

Exactly what I was thinking with the spyders! Kind of a tricky play there. I didn't think about keeping the wraiths and scarabs in the back though. That's smart because they do move fast and ignore terrain. Good call.

You will never be able to shoot a 20 man warrior blob with a res orb down. Or, if you do, it takes such a disproportional amount of shots that your opponent is already at a disadvantage.

Imagine wave serpent spam... They would hate this. Not only do you negate 75% of their shots (4+, res orb) but you glance on 6's with everything. If you have 60 shots at 24 inches, you'll hit with 40 of them and cause something like 7 glancing hits a turn. That means you wreck a waveserpent every turn (4+ cover's a pain).

In fact, I would argue that shooting lists can't beat 60+ warriors on the table.

CC lists on the other hand... I played a Tau army with a 10 Nob biker squad with a warboss allied into it. My opponent had all the crazy fliers and comand barges with 40-60 warriors (3 squads, can't remember how many). I multi-assaulted them with my 11 bikers and either ran them all down or ran them off the table. You have to have an answer to the Khorne-dog-pile lists or anything with a fast moving, big blob of CC models. You have to.

A monolith would be good to block with. Wraiths are good counter attack units. Spreading out to prevent multi-assaults works. Just have a plan.

 Paradigm wrote:
Speaking as someone who plays against this kind of cron army very frequently, it is certainly effective, 30-40 warriors are difficultto remove with shooting, even more so with the arks. The major weakness with this type of list is things that can get into CC quickly, as a couple of squads of DP ASM can usually take a turn of fire hiding behind the Drop pod and then hit hard enough the next turn to run down a warrior squad, so make sure you have a plan to counter DS CC units, or fast units like TWC.

I find 15 is the sweet spot for warrior squad sizes, 10 is too small and 20 is a little unwieldy when trying to manoeuvre and apply force concentration. Keep a Semp Res Orb Scythe lord in each one, and they become pretty tough and have the potential to take the punch out of CC units with challenges.

Other good additions to this kind of list are a D-Lord and wraiths for countering your CC weakness, a maxed squad of immortals for some resilience to AP4 and a nice boost to defensive firepower with tesla. A couple of anni barges make a good, fast detachment to move up a flank and put down most threats, they are great against infantry as well as medium vehicles (and good at forcing saves on MCs as well). Finally, a Triarch Stalker can be really good here, AV13 in cover (just stand him behind some warriors or between a couple of arks) is pretty tough, and the ability to TL fire is an excellent force multiplier for your warrior squads.

I'm using a couple of ideas from this. 15 man squads and the triarch stalker sound wicked. I can't afford the 150 pts yet but for a warrior heavy list i can hardly imagine something more devastating than twin linking all their shots. Expensive but probably worth it i lists over 1500 maybe 2000.

I don't really like a R-Orb in groups of 15.
Just some math:
It improves RP by only 1. That means on average you need 6 dead warriors to make the Orb useful.
The Orb is 2.5 times as expensive as a Warrior, so you need 15 dead Warriors before it got its points back.
They already resurrect on a 5+, the 4+ is (in my opinion) only worth it in expensive groups or in 20-blobs.

Stalkers are awesome, but they are also a big "SHOOT ME" if you only take one.

Imothek and Pulse-teks are great for warrior-lists, since they will take care of all the Large Blasts that can ruin your day.

Kangodo wrote:
I don't really like a R-Orb in groups of 15.
Just some math:
It improves RP by only 1. That means on average you need 6 dead warriors to make the Orb useful.
The Orb is 2.5 times as expensive as a Warrior, so you need 15 dead Warriors before it got its points back.
They already resurrect on a 5+, the 4+ is (in my opinion) only worth it in expensive groups or in 20-blobs.

Stalkers are awesome, but they are also a big "SHOOT ME" if you only take one.

Imothek and Pulse-teks are great for warrior-lists, since they will take care of all the Large Blasts that can ruin your day.

Aww that sucks because IMHO it can't be a "phalanx" without a res orb. Have you ever used, or seen before, a blob with more than 20? May e a squad of 25 with an OL with res orb and two GAs to support it or would you prefer breaking it into two squads of fifteen? Noob question (sorry!) but a pulse tek is a destructo with solar pulse?