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Another hypothetical question from a newb:

In an Eldar army with a strong footslogging element, would a single Wraithlord or a squadron of two to three War Walkers be the better Heavy Support choice?

The Wraithlord is, to my estimation, more durable and less reliant on cover for survival. It has a better save against damage than the War Walkers (although it can be negated). As a monstrous creature and character, it can fight effectively in close combat. On the downside, it is more expensive than two (but not three) fully equipped War Walkers when the Wraithlord is kitted out with heavy weapons. Another downside is the lack of Battle Focus, and fewer heavy weapons.

The War Walkers are more maneuverable due to Fleet and Battle Focus, and can take more heavy weapons per detachment than the Wraithlord. The downsides are that War Walkers are fragile due to their low armor value and can be devastated if caught off guard by surprise attacks. They also cannot fight in close combat.

Any comments or advice about this question I have would be appreciated.

War walkers. unless you have a spiritseer, wraithlords are overshadowed in shooting and assault by warwalkers and wraithknights/avatar.

I disagree that War Walkers cannot fight in CC. Last game I had a single damaged War Walker hold his own against a Wraithknight for about 3 Turns. The rest of his squad had been destroyed earlier and the survivor lost one of his weapons.

Warwalkers greater flexability

Warwalkers are much better since they have a decent damage output. A Wraithlord on the other hand has a mediocre damage output. Wraithlords are fluffy in an Iyanden army. Otherwise, leave them at home.

Thanks for all the advice and responses.

Like I said, I'm a new player, so Wraithlords seemed to overshadow War Walkers. I'll definitely give War Walkers more consideration if/when I build up a large enough army to use them effectively.

WW will get a lot of love but what is your build?

Admittedly it was 5th ed but I had quite a bit of success running a 3xWL + Avatar "ministar" group backed up by Foots and Psykers.

Dont discount WLs completey if your build suits them.

It isn't 5th edition anymore though. There's not much reason to take 2 Wraithlords when you can take a Wraithknight even now.

Granted, it was just an example build
Main point was not to discount Wl if your overall build suits them.

And 2xWLs VS WK is still not as cut and dried as people make out these days imho.
Dont have the Codex at hand but for a fully kitted out WK you can get 2X kitted WLs. More flexibility, arguably as good firepower, less of a "hey target me" chance (as WKs have) and as tough with as many wounds combined + not hampered anymore with wraithsight. Add in they still have MC rules and same points value and one can argue 2VS1 in this case works.

Yes but that's a terrible comparison since a fully kitted out Wraithknight is the worst build for him. Stock Wraithknight is by far the best build and rocks in at 240pts, whereas two Wraithlords with the standard build of two guns, Glaive and 2 Flamers rock in at 320pts.

Yes but that's a terrible comparison since a fully kitted out Wraithknight is the worst build for him. Stock Wraithknight is by far the best build and rocks in at 240pts, whereas two Wraithlords with the standard build of two guns, Glaive and 2 Flamers rock in at 320pts.

Granted, I reread the OP, heavy foots. Fair enough, WK is The KP there.

You assume though that 2WL build will be given 2 guns, flamers and glaives. Very excessive imho, flamers are utility, so sure, keep them, drop the glaives, and take a primary that compliments the army build.

TBH without seeing a mock up list this is usual theoryhammer back 'n' forth.

Im just saying everyone bangs on about WW VS WL. Dont ruleout the Wl altogether. Thats all.

war walkers i would use over lords. they will kill stuff every turn.... lords probally wont. ;/

unless im running 4 wraithlords at 1500, i usually leave them at home.

How do you get 4 WLs in 1500? Iyanden allied with C:E?

 Ratius wrote:
How do you get 4 WLs in 1500? Iyanden allied with C:E?

Pretty sure you can't do that (Iyanden didn't have the line about allying with itself that Farsight and Black Legion were given, though I wouldn't be shocked at it being an oversight). Maybe he's using a Wraithseer?

I'm actually running a list this weekend using 3 big Wraiths (one Knight, two Lords) as a bit of an experiment in Scary Target Saturation. I'm kind of curious about what I should expect or what kind of threats the big monsters are likely to be targeted with and how I can take advantage of it. I'll post the list here since it might be relevant to the discussion; feel free to use it as an example of where War Walkers would be better off to help further the topic.

1850 Iyanden
-Farseer (on bike), Iyanden Spear, Wraith-Healing Stone
-6 Jetbikes (2 cannons) plus 1 Warlock (Spear)
-2 Wave Serpents (6 DA's each), Scatter, ShurCannon
-5 Rangers
-3 Vypers (Scatter+ShurCannon)
-10 Warp Spiders, Exarch (Twin-Linked Spinner)
-Wraithknight (2 Cannon)
-Wraithlord (2 Bright Lance, Sword)
-Wraithlord (2 Bright Lance)

 Ratius wrote:
How do you get 4 WLs in 1500? Iyanden allied with C:E?

Sorry me being stupid... Been throwing around the idea for 4 wraithlords in 2000 points, as I recently got 2 lords for really really cheap off a friend. Just forgot about organization for a sec.

 Ratius wrote:

Yes but that's a terrible comparison since a fully kitted out Wraithknight is the worst build for him. Stock Wraithknight is by far the best build and rocks in at 240pts, whereas two Wraithlords with the standard build of two guns, Glaive and 2 Flamers rock in at 320pts.

You assume though that 2WL build will be given 2 guns, flamers and glaives. Very excessive imho, flamers are utility, so sure, keep them, drop the glaives, and take a primary that compliments the army build.

I'm assuming that because that's the only way anyone seems to build them. And sure you can drop the Glaives and the combat punch, but they still rock in at 310pts then, so my point still stands.

 Ratius wrote:
WW will get a lot of love but what is your build?

Admittedly it was 5th ed but I had quite a bit of success running a 3xWL + Avatar "ministar" group backed up by Foots and Psykers.

Dont discount WLs completey if your build suits them.

Well, my basic WW build is just 3 Warwalkers with dual scatter lasers. Sometimes I have a Jetseer w/ prescience or guide around to twin-link their weapons. But this is not a must-have since WW got an improved BS.

I run mine with all BLs. Good anti armour.

I find WLs work best if there are other high durability units ' slow units in the army.

Also, Eldar shooting tends to focus around S6 so having a couple WL with BLx2 can be valuable anti-tank.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also in some ways two WL is better than one WK because you can tie up twice as many units in combat.

 warpspider89 wrote:
Also in some ways two WL is better than one WK because you can tie up twice as many units in combat.

You are assuming that they will get there and get a choice of target, both of which aren't great assumptions for a 6" move model with only 3W and a 3+ save.

Walkers are fragile but pack more bang for their buck. Waithlords are more expensive and more survivable.

The standard loadout for Wraithknights are not all cut and dry either. I run mine with Suncannon & Scatter Laser and receive a lot of success in just two games. Sure I'm mostly killing off troops/elites but man does he make back his points and then more!

Malik_Raynor wrote:
The standard loadout for Wraithknights are not all cut and dry either. I run mine with Suncannon & Scatter Laser and receive a lot of success in just two games. Sure I'm mostly killing off troops/elites but man does he make back his points and then more!

It might work for you, and it certainly is a good build, but a quick search through the BR and AL forums shows that most competitive players are bringing the stock load-out. It's not that SC/SL is bad by even a stretch, but they don't bring anything new to the table unlike the Wraithcannon.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:
Also in some ways two WL is better than one WK because you can tie up twice as many units in combat.

You are assuming that they will get there and get a choice of target, both of which aren't great assumptions for a 6" move model with only 3W and a 3+ save.

We are speaking in loose hypotheticals here sir. It is certainly a possible benefit.

The element that Lord is bringing to the table is fear. Unless you have a Knight on the table that Wraithlord will draw a lot of firepower and propably take it. Warwalkers put out more damage indeed and suits propably better for AT but I also like the Lords. Give them flamers, a single gun and Glaive to keep them cheap.