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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 05:21:11
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Missionary On A Mission
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Is anyone else a little tired of the Ultramarines getting all of the glory? I mean can we get a new mascot for the space marines? There are plenty of other extraordinary chapters that gw could use to promote the line. I get that they are the ones that started the whole chapters instead of the legion thing in the fluff but you have the Imperial Fists the defenders of Terra that have a rich history just to name one.
Maybe I'm just annoyed that yet again it's basically a "Ultramarine" release today.
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: 4500pts
Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 05:26:10
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Furious Raptor
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Although I haven't seen the book yet I have cone to understand that the Ultramarine favoritism has been tuned down a bit, leaving a lot of run for the rest of the loyalists in the codec.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 05:27:58
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Missionary On A Mission
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In defence of the New codex it does have sections of individual chapters. Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and also the dust jacket of the second founding limited edition codex has a crimson fist on the front but an allied ultramarine and imperial fist fight against a chaos force. Seriously on a second founding codex?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/31 05:31:34
: 4500pts
Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 05:56:29
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
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Whine more please?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 06:01:46
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Missionary On A Mission
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Well I could possibly come up with more
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: 4500pts
Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 06:07:20
Subject: Re:a new sm mascot please
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Does the current codex have the line "Not all marines can be Ultramarines"? Because if it forgot that line, then things already went much less ultramariney than the last codex.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 06:10:02
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
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Nope.
The universe has a Big Four. Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Ultramarines.
Nobody whines about the Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves getting their own codex books. But the Ultramarines are the star of the show in one... travesty.
Oh the rage.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 08:31:32
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Regular Dakkanaut
Ork and Catachan Training Center, Australia
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Veteran Sergeant wrote:Nope.
The universe has a Big Four. Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Ultramarines.
Nobody whines about the Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves getting their own codex books. But the Ultramarines are the star of the show in one... travesty.
Oh the rage. 
People are annoyed because they want to buy a book on Space Marines. Most people aren't buying it for a 10-or so page Ultramarine propaganda pamphlet that could easily be dropped off to Ultramar for their recruitment/advertising campaign.
I honestly wouldn't mind even a 5 page section completely devoted to the Ultramarines, as they are of course the original Codex chapter; the most Space Marine of them all. I would just like to read more about Sallies, or even Crimson Fists.
Ultramarines would be best (and most pleasing, for everyone) as a supplement, and practically left out of the codex.
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By bolter and honour, by blood and fire, we shall cleanse this galaxy. By Vulkan, and by the Emperor, CHARGE!
Yo Dawgs, I heard you like grimdark, so I put grimdark in yo grimdark in yo grimdark in yo universe that is obviously grimdark.
"On the Anvil of War are the strong tempered and the weak made to perish, thus are men's souls tested as metal in the forge's fire." — Primarch Vulkan |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 08:49:37
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Missionary On A Mission
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^this is what I was trying to get at. Cheers
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: 4500pts
Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 09:19:24
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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Veteran Sergeant wrote:Nope.
The universe has a Big Four. Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Ultramarines.
Nobody whines about the Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves getting their own codex books. But the Ultramarines are the star of the show in one... travesty.
Oh the rage. 
Thing is, BA have the Red Thirst/Black Rage, the Wolves have the Curse Of Wulfen and the Dark Angels have "their big secret."
Ultras are all "look at us, we're the paragons of what a Space Marine should be, oh, is that a Unicorn over there, under that rainbow?"
I find it much easier to identify with a flawed hero, hence why I prefer Batman to Superman, and I don't think I'm alone.
Perhaps the HH Calth books will help dirty them up a bit, but right now, they're just too clean for me to really feel any affection for.
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 09:26:36
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Regular Dakkanaut
Ork and Catachan Training Center, Australia
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azreal13 wrote: Veteran Sergeant wrote:Nope.
The universe has a Big Four. Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Ultramarines.
Nobody whines about the Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves getting their own codex books. But the Ultramarines are the star of the show in one... travesty.
Oh the rage. 
Thing is, BA have the Red Thirst/Black Rage, the Wolves have the Curse Of Wulfen and the Dark Angels have "their big secret."
Ultras are all "look at us, we're the paragons of what a Space Marine should be, oh, is that a Unicorn over there, under that rainbow?"
I find it much easier to identify with a flawed hero, hence why I prefer Batman to Superman, and I don't think I'm alone.
Perhaps the HH Calth books will help dirty them up a bit, but right now, they're just too clean for me to really feel any affection for.
Their flaw is rigidly sticking by that silly codex. Even when Captain Uriel Ventris flipped-off the codex in order to DESTROY A TYRANID FLEET, that silly fool Calgar decided to punish them.
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By bolter and honour, by blood and fire, we shall cleanse this galaxy. By Vulkan, and by the Emperor, CHARGE!
Yo Dawgs, I heard you like grimdark, so I put grimdark in yo grimdark in yo grimdark in yo universe that is obviously grimdark.
"On the Anvil of War are the strong tempered and the weak made to perish, thus are men's souls tested as metal in the forge's fire." — Primarch Vulkan |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 09:32:00
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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That's an interesting spin on it, but still...meh.
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 09:32:55
Subject: Re:a new sm mascot please
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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I agree, let us use the BLUD REHVENS and follow the glorious exploits of CAPTAIN BOREALE and his SPEHSS MEHREENS.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 10:53:13
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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azreal13 wrote: Veteran Sergeant wrote:Nope.
The universe has a Big Four. Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Ultramarines.
Nobody whines about the Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves getting their own codex books. But the Ultramarines are the star of the show in one... travesty.
Oh the rage. 
Thing is, BA have the Red Thirst/Black Rage, the Wolves have the Curse Of Wulfen and the Dark Angels have "their big secret."
Ultras are all "look at us, we're the paragons of what a Space Marine should be, oh, is that a Unicorn over there, under that rainbow?"
I find it much easier to identify with a flawed hero, hence why I prefer Batman to Superman, and I don't think I'm alone.
Perhaps the HH Calth books will help dirty them up a bit, but right now, they're just too clean for me to really feel any affection for.
While i don't have a dog in the ultramarine fight, this is an excellent summation of why i find Ultramarines very bland and uninteresting. Even the non-ultramarine vanilla marine chapters have interesting things - i dig the salamanders focus on melta and flame, the raven guard's emphasis on stealth- mc-stealth-stealth and jump infantry, most of the crimson fist fluff is cool, etc.
The most interesting thing i find about the ultramarines is that they ended up allying with the Tau against a hive fleet. Past that it's kinda ham-handed.
** edit: I kant sphell gewd een duh mawnin.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/31 10:54:03
daedalus wrote:
I mean, it's Dakka. I thought snide arguments from emotion were what we did here.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 11:27:12
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
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Ultramarines have an iconic colour scheme which is far removed from other chapters with their own Dex's. They look striking on the cover, and their regal appearence embodies what the majoity of codex following marines should be. Yeah sure other chapters are cool and all, but i can't see the bright yellow dudes having the same universal appeal as the blue and gold dudes. Same applies for the black dudes and whitedudes. Salamanders of coarse are a lovely green, but then GW already has the Dark Angels.
Its simply to do with aesthetic in terms of what will sell as the poster-boy chapter. The new dex will be far more inclusive of the other first foundings and their successors, so don't get your undies in a twist because the blue guys are on the cover.
The last codex of coarse was pretty much Codex Ultras, but i think we have moved past that.
But remember, the Ultramarines are the chapter which addhear most rigidly to the Codex Astartes, which every other chapter is based around to some extent. they are simply the vanilla, they give a good idea of what a "true" marine should be, and everyone else is a deviation of these ideals.
In short, they are a good base for begginers to identify with, they have the most 2nd foundings of any chapter, and the colour scheme is bithching and probably the most pleasing to people unfamiliar with the hobby.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/31 11:32:58
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 11:56:25
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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stargasm wrote:Ultramarines have an iconic colour scheme which is far removed from other chapters with their own Dex's. They look striking on the cover, and their regal appearence embodies what the majoity of codex following marines should be. Yeah sure other chapters are cool and all, but i can't see the bright yellow dudes having the same universal appeal as the blue and gold dudes. Same applies for the black dudes and whitedudes. Salamanders of coarse are a lovely green, but then GW already has the Dark Angels.
Guys, GUYS! I've just found Matt Ward's Dakka account!!
Its simply to do with aesthetic in terms of what will sell as the poster-boy chapter. The new dex will be far more inclusive of the other first foundings and their successors, so don't get your undies in a twist because the blue guys are on the cover.
The last codex of coarse was pretty much Codex Ultras, but i think we have moved past that.
Back in 2nd, the book really was Codex:Ultramarines, which at least had a degree of openness about it! In the interim though, Blood Angels and Black Templars have been the cover stars, so the aesthetic argument doesn't really hold water. Especially when everyone knows black is coolest.
But remember, the Ultramarines are the chapter which addhear most rigidly to the Codex Astartes, which every other chapter is based around to some extent. they are simply the vanilla, they give a good idea of what a "true" marine should be, and everyone else is a deviation of these ideals.
In short, they are a good base for begginers to identify with, they have the most 2nd foundings of any chapter, and the colour scheme is bithching and probably the most pleasing to people unfamiliar with the hobby.
If I was being cynical, I'd say they were deliberately bland, as, you quite rightly point out, they are vanilla and easier for someone new to the game and Universe to get their head around.
Its human nature, when confronted with a shop full of mint choc chip, black cherry, strawberry and rocky road, to look at your bowl of vanilla and suddenly not want it anymore..
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 12:14:56
Subject: Re:a new sm mascot please
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Preacher of the Emperor
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Kain wrote:I agree, let us use the BLUD REHVENS and follow the glorious exploits of CAPTAIN BOREALE and his SPEHSS MEHREENS.
Indeeed. Boreale, with his multiple, simultaneous and devastating defensive deep-strikes is clearly quite superior to any Ultramarine hero. I mean, have you ever seen a mere Ultramarine display such mastery of Steel Rain?
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Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 12:34:47
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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What secret? I have no idea what you are talking about. But back to the point, blue? You think blue is the best color for SM? Imagine your country's army in that blue while in battle. I don't know about you but it would make me giggle. Black just looks really cool anywhere, and definitely cool on a 7 foot monster.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/31 12:47:03
My blog! 1,500 Points II 1,500 Points II 125
Have a nice day. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 13:19:53
Subject: Re:a new sm mascot please
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Kain wrote:I agree, let us use the BLUD REHVENS and follow the glorious exploits of CAPTAIN BOREALE and his SPEHSS MEHREENS.
You do realize that stopped being funny years ago right?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 13:21:30
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Missionary On A Mission
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Insane Smile wrote:
What secret? I have no idea what you are talking about. But back to the point, blue? You think blue is the best color for SM? Imagine your country's army in that blue while in battle. I don't know about you but it would make me giggle. Black just looks really cool anywhere, and definitely cool on a 7 foot monster.
Lol couldn't agree more on this point.
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: 4500pts
Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 13:24:08
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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Well, historically, Dark Angels were the gay chapter (not a wind up, I promise) but these days it has been retconned to the fact that half of them fell to Chaos during the Heresy, but nobody outside of a select few knows this any more, so, you know,
Shhhh!
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 13:32:38
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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azreal13 wrote:Well, historically, Dark Angels were the gay chapter (not a wind up, I promise) but these days it has been retconned to the fact that half of them fell to Chaos during the Heresy, but nobody outside of a select few knows this any more, so, you know,
Shhhh!
[citation needed]
Unless of course you're just continuing off the whole "Lionel Johnson" thing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 13:37:27
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Insane Smile wrote:
What secret? I have no idea what you are talking about. But back to the point, blue? You think blue is the best color for SM? Imagine your country's army in that blue while in battle. I don't know about you but it would make me giggle. Black just looks really cool anywhere, and definitely cool on a 7 foot monster.
Blue stands out a lot more which Marines were designed to do. Be obviously terrifying.
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I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures!
DR:90+S++G+++M+B+IPw40k08#-D+++A+++/cwd363R+++T(Ot)DM+
Check out my Deathwatch story, Aftermath in the fiction section!
Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 13:41:33
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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Kanluwen wrote: azreal13 wrote:Well, historically, Dark Angels were the gay chapter (not a wind up, I promise) but these days it has been retconned to the fact that half of them fell to Chaos during the Heresy, but nobody outside of a select few knows this any more, so, you know,
Shhhh!
[citation needed]
Unless of course you're just continuing off the whole "Lionel Johnson" thing.
[nam voice] I was there man![/nam voice]
It was implied, but never stated. If you were going to try and argue that all the references were just coincydink though, I think we both know that the guys responsible for the names and such knocking around the studio at that time knew their literature too well for that to be the case..
Though, of course, I can't cite something that was never stated.
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 13:47:29
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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azreal13 wrote:Well, historically, Dark Angels were the gay chapter (not a wind up, I promise) but these days it has been retconned to the fact that half of them fell to Chaos during the Heresy, but nobody outside of a select few knows this any more, so, you know, Shhhh! How so gay? Could you state a reference of them being gay. And blue stands out but black inspires dread.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/31 13:48:46
My blog! 1,500 Points II 1,500 Points II 125
Have a nice day. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 13:48:09
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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azreal13 wrote: Kanluwen wrote: azreal13 wrote:Well, historically, Dark Angels were the gay chapter (not a wind up, I promise) but these days it has been retconned to the fact that half of them fell to Chaos during the Heresy, but nobody outside of a select few knows this any more, so, you know,
Shhhh!
[citation needed]
Unless of course you're just continuing off the whole "Lionel Johnson" thing.
[nam voice] I was there man![/nam voice]
It was implied, but never stated. If you were going to try and argue that all the references were just coincydink though, I think we both know that the guys responsible for the names and such knocking around the studio at that time knew their literature too well for that to be the case..
Though, of course, I can't cite something that was never stated.
That was my point, actually.
I would not say it was a coincidence but I would say that choosing the names of a famously homosexual author who also wrote a famous poem called "The Dark Angel" which is primarily about resisting tempation(in general terms but there is an undercurrent to the poem which if you're unaware of Johnson's background is a bit less on the nose) leaves room for ambiguity.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 14:00:09
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Insane Smile wrote: azreal13 wrote:Well, historically, Dark Angels were the gay chapter (not a wind up, I promise) but these days it has been retconned to the fact that half of them fell to Chaos during the Heresy, but nobody outside of a select few knows this any more, so, you know,
Shhhh!
How so gay? Could you state a reference of them being gay. And blue stands out but black inspires dread.
Only if you are able to see it, which is the point. In a cityscape covered in dust and smoke or in a jungle or something, black is more difficult to spot, blue isn't.
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I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures!
DR:90+S++G+++M+B+IPw40k08#-D+++A+++/cwd363R+++T(Ot)DM+
Check out my Deathwatch story, Aftermath in the fiction section!
Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 14:07:28
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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But so is yellow, which was put down. What is the difference between yellow and blue?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/31 14:08:57
My blog! 1,500 Points II 1,500 Points II 125
Have a nice day. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 14:11:51
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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Kanluwen wrote: azreal13 wrote: Kanluwen wrote: azreal13 wrote:Well, historically, Dark Angels were the gay chapter (not a wind up, I promise) but these days it has been retconned to the fact that half of them fell to Chaos during the Heresy, but nobody outside of a select few knows this any more, so, you know,
Shhhh!
[citation needed]
Unless of course you're just continuing off the whole "Lionel Johnson" thing.
[nam voice] I was there man![/nam voice]
It was implied, but never stated. If you were going to try and argue that all the references were just coincydink though, I think we both know that the guys responsible for the names and such knocking around the studio at that time knew their literature too well for that to be the case..
Though, of course, I can't cite something that was never stated.
That was my point, actually.
I would not say it was a coincidence but I would say that choosing the names of a famously homosexual author who also wrote a famous poem called "The Dark Angel" which is primarily about resisting tempation(in general terms but there is an undercurrent to the poem which if you're unaware of Johnson's background is a bit less on the nose) leaves room for ambiguity.
You're forgetting the "dark secret" which was also a thing.
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/31 14:13:03
Subject: a new sm mascot please
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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Kanluwen wrote: azreal13 wrote: Kanluwen wrote: azreal13 wrote:Well, historically, Dark Angels were the gay chapter (not a wind up, I promise) but these days it has been retconned to the fact that half of them fell to Chaos during the Heresy, but nobody outside of a select few knows this any more, so, you know,
Shhhh!
[citation needed]
Unless of course you're just continuing off the whole "Lionel Johnson" thing.
[nam voice] I was there man![/nam voice]
It was implied, but never stated. If you were going to try and argue that all the references were just coincydink though, I think we both know that the guys responsible for the names and such knocking around the studio at that time knew their literature too well for that to be the case..
Though, of course, I can't cite something that was never stated.
That was my point, actually.
I would not say it was a coincidence but I would say that choosing the names of a famously homosexual author who also wrote a famous poem called "The Dark Angel" which is primarily about resisting tempation(in general terms but there is an undercurrent to the poem which if you're unaware of Johnson's background is a bit less on the nose) leaves room for ambiguity.
I would also like to bring in that many of the people in the DA chapter where named after people in the Bible, which is against homosexuality. I am in no way trying to make a religious debate or flame just throwing my two cents.
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My blog! 1,500 Points II 1,500 Points II 125
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