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Hey All,

I have been digging through Fluff of a few chapters in my search for a "40k era" Marine army (I only have Pre Heresy right now), and I have settled on Iron Hands, but have some questions revolving around some specific fluff, and have not had a chance to pick up and read the Iron Hands book, so maybe someone out there has and can help a Brother out!

Kaargul Clan -- As far as i know their Clan symbol is the 3 bolt heads inside of the Cog, Correct?

Warleader Bannus -- A Venerable Dreadnought, which I will be running a plays as Contemptor, does anyone know if Bannus had a specific loadout? Plas Cannon, Lascannon, etc... There is so little information about Kaargul and Bannus in general but they are the ones that stood out the most to me and the ones I am going to build.

Thanks in advance! Can't wait to get the pre-order marines and start work on them!

Anyone out there?

Pretty sure Bannus favored a twin-linked lascannon and a dreadnought close combat weapon as his weapons of choice.

Thanks Scruffy, That's what I currently have so I was planning to go with it! Makes all the more sense haha

In Iron Hands Bannus is described as having a chainfist with built in storm bolter and an assault cannon. He also had a banner with his personal clan heraldry.

Looking through Index Astartes shows the three bolt in a cog symbol as a clan marking but doesn't say which. I don't see any references to the Kaargul clan symbol in Iron Hands, Wrath of Iron, or Flesh either. I did find a post on Warseer linking the two but there wasn't really any corroborating citations.

Wait until you read the retconned IH fluff in the new 'dex before you get too excited. Apparently we have a chapter master now, and he thinks the whole "bionics and hatred" thing ain't all that, so we should all join hands and wish really really hard that we can all become Ultramarines or something.

There is kind of a precedent with the whole "Manus resolved to tell his boys its whats inside that counts" and then promptly died before he could, causing a vicious cycle of marines that slowly lost their humanity while knowing it was happening.

But wow, a solitary chapter master? In the Iron Hands?

 piprinx wrote:
There is kind of a precedent with the whole "Manus resolved to tell his boys its whats inside that counts" and then promptly died before he could, causing a vicious cycle of marines that slowly lost their humanity while knowing it was happening.

But wow, a solitary chapter master? In the Iron Hands?

That quote is specifically noted as being "attributed", and it's in a 40K-era novel not a Heresy-era novel. Until I see that sentiment expressed in the first person by Ferrus himself in a HH book, it is and always shall remain dirty lies peddled by some heretic filth trying to undermine the morale of the Iron Tenth. I'll also point out that despite that quote and the wishy-washy philosophising of the Librarian character, the actual events depicted in Wrath completely validate the IH's core beliefs and their use of bionics, since they are the reasons the Iron Hands succeed in that situation where any other chapter would have failed.

Yepper, Stronos. It's a really shoddy attempt to reconcile a single mention of an Iron Hands Chapter Master in one throwaway bit of fluff, with every other bit of fluff written about the matter which contradicts it outright. Apparently, the retcon goes that there is a Clan Council, but they're now essentially just caretakers, and whenever there's SRS BZNZ going on, they elevate one of their number as some kind of Supreme Leader with all the same rights and powers as a Chapter Master. Which is moronic, since the entire idea of the Clan Council was that the events of the Heresy convinced the Iron Hands that you could NEVER give one individual, no matter how ostensibly pure and noble and regardless of the scale, absolute authority over humanity(including the Marines) except the Emperor. That conviction should be considered MORE relevant in times of strife, not less. The fact that they decided to make the first appearance of this concept in the fluff into some Codex-loving anti-Bionics happy-clappy reformer just adds insult to injury.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 piprinx wrote:
There is kind of a precedent with the whole "Manus resolved to tell his boys its whats inside that counts" and then promptly died before he could, causing a vicious cycle of marines that slowly lost their humanity while knowing it was happening.

But wow, a solitary chapter master? In the Iron Hands?

That quote is specifically noted as being "attributed", and it's in a 40K-era novel not a Heresy-era novel. Until I see that sentiment expressed in the first person by Ferrus himself in a HH book, it is and always shall remain dirty lies peddled by some heretic filth trying to undermine the morale of the Iron Tenth. I'll also point out that despite that quote and the wishy-washy philosophising of the Librarian character, the actual events depicted in Wrath completely validate the IH's core beliefs and their use of bionics, since they are the reasons the Iron Hands succeed in that situation where any other chapter would have failed.

Yepper, Stronos. It's a really shoddy attempt to reconcile a single mention of an Iron Hands Chapter Master in one throwaway bit of fluff, with every other bit of fluff written about the matter which contradicts it outright. Apparently, the retcon goes that there is a Clan Council, but they're now essentially just caretakers, and whenever there's SRS BZNZ going on, they elevate one of their number as some kind of Supreme Leader with all the same rights and powers as a Chapter Master. Which is moronic, since the entire idea of the Clan Council was that the events of the Heresy convinced the Iron Hands that you could NEVER give one individual, no matter how ostensibly pure and noble and regardless of the scale, absolute authority over humanity(including the Marines) except the Emperor. That conviction should be considered MORE relevant in times of strife, not less. The fact that they decided to make the first appearance of this concept in the fluff into some Codex-loving anti-Bionics happy-clappy reformer just adds insult to injury.

I was actually referring to the sargeant who at the end executes the loyalist "rebel" survivor even knowing the person was on his side. A big part of the story was he knew exactly what was happening over to him, he hit a crucial moment, and he went along with it. Though, wasn't he basically under threat of death because he expressed for a while he expressed his humanity and a different view? Also, a key component to the victory in that story was the actions of the death cult assassin, a highly trained, flawed, human. Without him, who's to say the Iron Hands would have been so victorious?

I agree with the attribution claim, though it can go either way, but a huge part of that novel, as well as at least one HH era short story is the Iron Hands denial of humanity in favor of machinery and the conflict it causes. I personally believe that it can be construed as weakness, going for the expedient method of replacing flesh, which can be developed into something stronger, with prosthetics, which are pretty much static. Yes, they can be improved with components to make them better, but it's not the same as muscles or flesh which are dynamic. All of that though is what really gives the Iron Hands character, it allows for a lot of nuance.

While a Dreadnought may prefer a certain loadout, they aren't locked into a specific one. A Dreadnought would be practical and choose a loadout if it was better for the mission.

So Bannus could have whatever loadout is possible. Magnetize him.

 Grey Templar wrote:
While a Dreadnought may prefer a certain loadout, they aren't locked into a specific one. A Dreadnought would be practical and choose a loadout if it was better for the mission.

So Bannus could have whatever loadout is possible. Magnetize him.

magnetizing dreads makes more sense than magnetizing anything else. They would swap all the dam time.

 Exergy wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
While a Dreadnought may prefer a certain loadout, they aren't locked into a specific one. A Dreadnought would be practical and choose a loadout if it was better for the mission.

So Bannus could have whatever loadout is possible. Magnetize him.

magnetizing dreads makes more sense than magnetizing anything else. They would swap all the dam time.

ThisX10