Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

There probably was a YMDC topic on it but considering it has been around as long as 40k has, it is a well worn topic.

As for never playing someone again, that's highly dependent on the opponent.

There are lots of worse things worry about than an opponent pulling out a 10+ inch charge on turn 1. I say more power to him if he can manage with Overwatch.

Fragile wrote:
There are lots of worse things worry about than an opponent pulling out a 10+ inch charge on turn 1. I say more power to him if he can manage with Overwatch.

I totally agree. I just forgot in 6th edition turning is free.

Basically the farthest an ork player could assault/charge with help from an Assault tank is around 9 inches from the truck ( Turning would add 2 inches red paint adds 1 and then 6 for his move) 6inches for the move of orks and then 12 inches on the charge roll. That's (drum roll please) 27inches but its ACTUAL move would only be 25 inches.....

Pretty neat!

Fragile wrote:There are lots of worse things worry about than an opponent pulling out a 10+ inch charge on turn 1. I say more power to him if he can manage with Overwatch.

pretre wrote:There probably was a YMDC topic on it but considering it has been around as long as 40k has, it is a well worn topic.

As for never playing someone again, that's highly dependent on the opponent.

Sure there are worse things and it's dependent on the opponent. I was merely speaking out of experience. I don't know of any players in the local area that play competitively and so it's all friendly games. None of the people I have seen or played against (except one, who can't find an opponent anymore) would consider that move to be anything short of cheese and taking unfair advantage of the rules and a dick move at best.

Rorschach9 wrote:

Fragile wrote:There are lots of worse things worry about than an opponent pulling out a 10+ inch charge on turn 1. I say more power to him if he can manage with Overwatch.

pretre wrote:There probably was a YMDC topic on it but considering it has been around as long as 40k has, it is a well worn topic.

As for never playing someone again, that's highly dependent on the opponent.

Sure there are worse things and it's dependent on the opponent. I was merely speaking out of experience. I don't know of any players in the local area that play competitively and so it's all friendly games. None of the people I have seen or played against (except one, who can't find an opponent anymore) would consider that move to be anything short of cheese and taking unfair advantage of the rules and a dick move at best.

Okay lets get back on topic. So to the OP, there are NO rules stating you cannot charge on the 1st turn. RAW

osirisx69 wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:

Fragile wrote:There are lots of worse things worry about than an opponent pulling out a 10+ inch charge on turn 1. I say more power to him if he can manage with Overwatch.

pretre wrote:There probably was a YMDC topic on it but considering it has been around as long as 40k has, it is a well worn topic.

As for never playing someone again, that's highly dependent on the opponent.

Sure there are worse things and it's dependent on the opponent. I was merely speaking out of experience. I don't know of any players in the local area that play competitively and so it's all friendly games. None of the people I have seen or played against (except one, who can't find an opponent anymore) would consider that move to be anything short of cheese and taking unfair advantage of the rules and a dick move at best.

Okay lets get back on topic. So to the OP, there are NO rules stating you cannot charge on the 1st turn. RAW

** Except where the rules state you cannot (deep-striking, scout and infiltrate for example)

It's just highly improbable outside of a very few circumstances (Ork Red Paint Job on an assault vehicle being one instance).

Rorschach9 wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:

Fragile wrote:There are lots of worse things worry about than an opponent pulling out a 10+ inch charge on turn 1. I say more power to him if he can manage with Overwatch.

pretre wrote:There probably was a YMDC topic on it but considering it has been around as long as 40k has, it is a well worn topic.

As for never playing someone again, that's highly dependent on the opponent.

Sure there are worse things and it's dependent on the opponent. I was merely speaking out of experience. I don't know of any players in the local area that play competitively and so it's all friendly games. None of the people I have seen or played against (except one, who can't find an opponent anymore) would consider that move to be anything short of cheese and taking unfair advantage of the rules and a dick move at best.

Okay lets get back on topic. So to the OP, there are NO rules stating you cannot charge on the 1st turn. RAW

** Except where the rules state you cannot (deep-striking, scout and infiltrate for example)




It's just highly improbable outside of a very few circumstances (Ork Red Paint Job on an assault vehicle being one instance).

Right Right, I found this http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/294492.page and it looks like over 60% play it that they deploy sideways and when the turn starts they turn it to gain some inches. That right there is very telling.

Don't forget about warp spiders. With 2D6+6" movement and fleet they able to charge first turn.

Eldarcannon wrote:
Don't forget about warp spiders. With 2D6+6" movement and fleet they able to charge first turn.

Fleet doesn't let you charge after running anymore.

osirisx69 wrote:I just forgot in 6th edition turning is free.

It was also free in 5th. And 4th. And 3rd.

Rorschach9 wrote:None of the people I have seen or played against (except one, who can't find an opponent anymore) would consider that move to be anything short of cheese and taking unfair advantage of the rules and a dick move at best.

To me, that's like saying that firing two shots with a rapid-fire weapon at half range is "cheese, taking unfair advantage of the rules, and a dick move at best."

To me, the "turning takes up movement" thing is just making up rules to screw over a handful of lower-tier codexes.

Eldarcannon wrote:
Don't forget about warp spiders. With 2D6+6" movement and fleet they able to charge first turn.

Fleet doesn't let you charge after running anymore.

No, they get a 6+2d6 for using their packs, then fleet for re-rolling charge range. This could be a pretty nasty tactic.

Also Iron wolfves with saga add d3 to a vehicles move, so they could get a charge in if in a landraider, escpesially with some cyberwolves.

Scarabs could also get a first turn charge off. If additional scarabs are added to the unit by a Tomb Spyder, there is no restriction (afaik) on the new bases having to be in the deployment zone. So, you add any new bases from Spyders out in front of the unit, then move them up, then charge. It isn't even that hard. (Unlike the ork way, which requires some REALLY good rolls.)

Now, I'm not a hundred percent up on my skimmer rules, but aren't the DE transports fast skimmers? So can't they go 12", and still unload troops? Who can deploy up to 6" away, and still charge a potential 12"? Not sure on that one, but isn't that still legal?

DE transports can only move 6" before unloading, just like other vehicles. I wish it were otherwise!

I believe the Scarab slingshot got FAQ'ed out of existence some time ago.

As for the rest, even the Red Ork Trukk is unlikely to do it; 7" move, 6" disembark, and then would need a 12" charge with no losses to overwatch. It might as well be impossible.

*shrug* Still, with their large profile, the 'pivot for distance' tactic means they should still be able to get first turn assaults off, at least in theory.

As a side note in response to an earlier post, I pivot for distance with my Land Raider all the time. I've never once had an opponent even question it. I honestly never thought anyone considered it such a big deal until I saw some of the vitriol the tactic occasionally gets here. Many players I know do it, and I don't know anyone (in real life) who has an issue with it.

The pivoting issue is much less of an issue with a) standard models and b) models that are quite close to being square to begin with, to the naked eye anyway - a Land Raider fits both.
It's a little bit dodgier with longer transports like Dark Eldar Raiders, but where it really gets out of hand is where a player has converted their own model to do it - usually the only army that can get away with actually putting the model on the table before someone spots what's being done is Orks. Anything else and the extra-long model starts ringing alarm bells.

pretre wrote:Fleet doesn't let you charge after running anymore.

This isn't what allows Warp Spiders to pull it off.
2D6+6" inch move is a maximum of 18". You then get a maximum of 12" charge range (that's rerollable thanks to Fleet) so in theory they can get up to 30".

There's also the Coordinated Assault warlord trait that adds 1'' to charge distances, should you luck out and get it

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I believe the Scarab slingshot got FAQ'ed out of existence some time ago.

As for the rest, even the Red Ork Trukk is unlikely to do it; 7" move, 6" disembark, and then would need a 12" charge with no losses to overwatch. It might as well be impossible.

Not completely out. The new scarabs have to be in coherency with the old scarabs, rather than just the unit overall. But that's still a gain of 2" + base diameter.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I believe the Scarab slingshot got FAQ'ed out of existence some time ago.

They FAQ'd out conga lining the scarabs accross the board (new scarabs must be placed in coherency with scarabs tha existed at the start of the turn). Still perfectly legit to get a scarab spawned out in no man's land. This still takes an epic charge distance to make and you're screwed if overwatch nails the only guy in range.

The easiest, and that does not involve any vehicle turning tricks is ork stormboyz.

They have 12+D6 movement during their movement phase. and can then assault 2D6 in the assult phase, for a total assault range of 15" to 30".

If the armies is deployed close with 24.X" between them, that means that the ork player will basically need to roll 13" on 3D6, and that is not to bad considering he rolls on of the D6s before he moves, and if that is a bad roll he can abort the charge attempt, but if he manages to roll a 5 or 6 on that first roll, he can move into position and attempt that 7" or 8" assault move.

Still a stretch of course, but I think this is the unit in the game that has the best chance of getting there turn 1.

codedaemon wrote:
The easiest, and that does not involve any vehicle turning tricks is ork stormboyz.

They have 12+D6 movement during their movement phase. and can then assault 2D6 in the assult phase, for a total assault range of 15" to 30".

If the armies is deployed close with 24.X" between them, that means that the ork player will basically need to roll 13" on 3D6, and that is not to bad considering he rolls on of the D6s before he moves, and if that is a bad roll he can abort the charge attempt, but if he manages to roll a 5 or 6 on that first roll, he can move into position and attempt that 7" or 8" assault move.

Still a stretch of course, but I think this is the unit in the game that has the best chance of getting there turn 1.

NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Certain supplement missions change the deployment zones away from the standard 3 and you could be right next to each other. In these cases, a first turn assault is very possible with pretty much any army (and usually to the annoyance of player 2). Overall, if you are running a scenario and/or army that gives you the opportunity to assault on turn 1, you can so power to you. This, of course, is outside of the scout and infiltrator special rules.

The core BRB allows for it but the default rules and deployment zones work to limit such.

The only time I was able to do a First Turn Assault is when I rolled 2 5's with a SAG and the assault ended my Big Mek's ability to do anything else, except being removed.

Yes, I thought it was cheesy, but that still hasn't stopped me from using the SAG.

Other than that, the player who goes second has been able to get a first turn assault quite easily. Since 6th edition has strengthen shooting this too has become rare as it seems the second turn is the only time an assault army has been able to get into melee.