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 gossipmeng wrote:
Well the goal is to spread awareness of GW products so that new players can be recruited. FLGS greatly help in these efforts, however, it is far more profitable for GW to sell directly to customers.
This is why we see FLGS carry products, recruit new players and then GW changes the terms so that the FLGS drop GW products. The players still want GW products so most instead buy directly from GW.
The real process is more complex and spans over a few years, but that is pretty much the story.

That is why the argument of historically they survived every new version of their rules despite "the sky is falling" response of the fanbase is not as applicable in this case.
What cannot be forgotten is that a fundamental method of management has changed on how to show a good bottom line but may be long term loss.

"Miniwargamer" has a huge presence on the internet and are only "just down the road" here and they have closed their store and explained in great detail why due to GW.
So I would add that to the "trend" of closures.
Purchasing methods will not matter if we all play in the basement with our good friends like the UK crowd does so well.
USA and Canada we tend to like to have a more public space meeting ground, sometimes a store is the best halfway meeting ground when we are spread all over the place.
Everyone can still appreciate a pick-up game so the FLGS is the way to go and if the store does not carry the game it makes things difficult.

YakManDoo wrote:
Dakka:

Two LFGSs recently dropped GW products completely from their shelves due to negligible sales. (Missed the sales by a couple of hours each.) One is a big hobby store (RC and kid stuff) while the other is a gaming store. Has anyone else seen this in their area. It's happened in the last month and it means I don't have a store less than 35 minutes from home.

Just curious if there's a trend afoot or just my bad luck.

Thanks,

Yakmandoo

My FLGS hasn't seen any real GW gaming in store in over a year and dumped the 40k line they were stocking ages ago. Last I checked there was a copy of DV and a Hobbit Limited Edition box as well, but they have obviously been there for some time indeed since they both came in at release. For some time now mini gaming has pretty much been Warmachine/Hordes, Flames fo War and Malifaux. There was an interest in Uncharted Seas, Firestorm Armada and Dystopian Wars for a while, but people eventually wanted to shift to Dystopian wars completely, but at the time it was so hard to get some of the minis they all moved on to other things. My FLGS makes most of its money off of Magic the Gathering, with multiple events every week that are always packed, and the sodas and snacks people buy while in the store playing games. In fact the soda and snack income vastly overshadows the entirety of the miniature games sales each month as well, even though quite a few people buy all their supported mini game stuff in the store.

The most recent store to open in my area was opening as a 40k/WFB focused store. They bought out my old FLGS's 40k stock. Within 6 months they were also running more Magic the Gathering events out of their store than 40k or WFB events because they weren't making any money. People just don't want to buy the stuff as much anymore. There are numerous stores near me that sell GW minis and stuff, but not a one of them attributes them as *the* primary seller anymore. Used to be you could run your store on 40k and WFB sales alone, but it is getting harder to do that. Most make their money on Magic the Gathering nowadays. I imagine if WotC suddenly stopped making magic the independent game store market would completely crash down on itself because so many stores are propped up by those sales. I don't expect it to happen since WotC makes a ton of money from Magic consistently, but it would be a death knell for the marketplace if they did.

Don't know if it is a trend or anything else, just that it is happening in more places than just your neck of the woods.

Skriker

I know one store still is selling 40k but another which had much more variety is getting rid of them (may have already) and was having one heck of sale. I remember someone saying they got the Necron Tesseract Vault for $100 at the sale.

GW products are the only wargaming any FLGS's in my city carry (unless you also count D&D miniatures, but D&D's wargamingness is a separate topic).

BrotherVord wrote:


Not really analogous comparisons. The economy wasn't in the crapper when any edition dropped except 6th. People are genuinely looking to cut costs and little plastic men, however addicting, don't fit into that equation for the sensible buyer. These products do have a certain amount of elasticity, but it's painfully obvious to anyone who knows business that gw is putting chewing gum into the holes on a leaky boat.

If it was painfully obvious, GW's shares wouldn't be doing well. And they are. Lots of other financial indicators look good.

You as a gamer might feel they've taking the wrong approach, others might agree with you and that's fair enough. But there's no real evidence been posted on Dakka or anywhere else for that matter that indicates they are springing any leaks.

Oh yeah, I was in Newlyn, UK, a few weeks ago. Local post office with one little rack of GW hopes to complete a lease purchase and open a shop selling mainly 40k by the fall.

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
But there's no real evidence been posted on Dakka or anywhere else for that matter that indicates they are springing any leaks.

They sold off and got rid of anything that was not core business.

They have not invested in any "app" market stuff that is hot right now and that is including "talent" so they are behind the curve.

They took a large portion of liquid assets and rolled them into dividends in order to increase stock price.

Technology like injection mold tooling is still behind modern practices and no new assets are being purchased.

It was mentioned in the shareholders report that constant IP enforcement and price increases are the primary strategy for profit.

It is "stay the course" until it does not work anymore.

As others have said well: The inflated pricing has given an opportunity for smaller gaming companies to compete well against GW's economy of scale.

We could thank them for all the cool stuff coming out.

 Talizvar wrote:

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
But there's no real evidence been posted on Dakka or anywhere else for that matter that indicates they are springing any leaks.

They sold off and got rid of anything that was not core business.

They have not invested in any "app" market stuff that is hot right now and that is including "talent" so they are behind the curve.

They took a large portion of liquid assets and rolled them into dividends in order to increase stock price.

Technology like injection mold tooling is still behind modern practices and no new assets are being purchased.

It was mentioned in the shareholders report that constant IP enforcement and price increases are the primary strategy for profit.

It is "stay the course" until it does not work anymore.

As others have said well: The inflated pricing has given an opportunity for smaller gaming companies to compete well against GW's economy of scale.

We could thank them for all the cool stuff coming out.

But they still post profits. Every year. For over a decade.

This is the same argument you see on every forum. "GW is going under! They're dieing out!" Blah blah blah.

5 years from now you'll still be going on about how they're "just around the corner" from having the entire business implode.

On Topic: I live within driving distance of 3 FLGS and a retail GW store. 2 of the FLGS have a full line of GW product. The GW store does as well, of course. Monthly, sometimes bi-monthly tournaments with 25+ turn-outs, a yearly con with a regional 40k GT...yeah, the 40k scene here is pretty alive and well.

The LGS closest to my house had about a 60/40 split of floor space for Magic and 40K/other. Then they changed ownership, and the 40K went away. The LGS closest to my place of work was about 80% 40K/other miniatures when it opened, but has been making more and more room for Magic. Magic is like printing money and takes up far FAR less sq ft/player than minis, so it's kind of a no-brainer for a business that often is more so a labor of love than a huge money maker.

Games Workshop has never been the only game in town ..for a while there it was the best deal for the buck ..(Late 80's early 90's) they had good enough models for less money ..then they had better models for less money and drove out their competitors..Now as they continue the price increases new compitors have emerged..WarGames Factory (their dreamforge line) and Mantic to name two Major ones ..Dystopian Legions and DustTactics (minor compition thou Dystopian legions leads folk to dust off their old Napoleonics again since they are close in era)
I see tons of other start up companies out their that produce good product for less cash as well ..
..I am not saying they are a dying breed but unless they go back to how they were doing things in the early 90's (as good as to better models for less cash) they will lose player base and shrink ..not vanish just that their slice of the pie will shrink over time..
I like GW products ..but I cant see paying 5 dollars per plastic soldier and 30 for specilists..not when I can get nice plastic soldiers from the competitors for 0.33 to 1 dollar each and 5 to 15 bucks for specilists

I have. Mostly the pricing, and most of my buddies including me buy from eBay or even Craigslist from time to time. I haven't nor will I buy direct from GW.

eBay is where you'll find the best deals.
Op, GW did just release new policy & procedures, and GW has made it very difficult for FLGS to properly keep stock. Stores have to jump threw hoops now, most stores wont. Not worth it for them.

MadmanMSU wrote:
]But they still post profits. Every year. For over a decade.

This is the same argument you see on every forum. "GW is going under! They're dieing out!" Blah blah blah.

Yeah, GW's revenue is growing like hell

And last year, their growth even equalled inflation rate

I think my FLGS is trying to. They had sale recently and promised not to restock anything but bare bones. Used to be I could get any blister(Well mostly) i want. Nw they have one blister per army. But then again most people agree that the store owner is 90% business and 10% games. He will axe a system he doesnt like despite people playing it. he has move alot of 40k stuff and has had Warmahordes take it over saying 40k never sells. Yet I never see anything but blisters sell for warmahordes.
I think alot of store owners are over reacting to GW's policies and hurting customers.

MadmanMSU wrote:
But they still post profits. Every year. For over a decade.
This is the same argument you see on every forum. "GW is going under! They're dieing out!" Blah blah blah.
5 years from now you'll still be going on about how they're "just around the corner" from having the entire business implode.

GW is a huge company.
They have downsized well, sold off property and assets as needed.
They can choose at any point many tactics to show profit even when actual sales are down.

There is no money going into more cost effective manufacturing or sending it out to more "economical" countries for production.
They have been playing around with how to show costing for "R&D" which looks like development budgets have been reduced which could tamper with their future.

They still have many areas they can reduce to ensure profitability, we are merely waiting until there is no downsizing left and excess to sell off.
Then flattening of the market for the disposable income where the pricing reaches what the market can bear and competition eats into their market share.
Then their options would be limited and it would be a true test of GW management, my money is on them getting out once the dividends dry up.

On Topic: I live within driving distance of 3 FLGS and a retail GW store. 2 of the FLGS have a full line of GW product. The GW store does as well, of course. Monthly, sometimes bi-monthly tournaments with 25+ turn-outs, a yearly con with a regional 40k GT...yeah, the 40k scene here is pretty alive and well.

I am glad it is working out so well in your area, I am somewhat jealous since it is now officially a GW wasteland where I am at. X-wing and Privateer games are all I have available unless I make a 40km trek to some outlying cities.

My FLGS only stocks ancient GW stuff that has a thick coat of dust, though they will order things in.

It's all Magic and Infinity now. And seriously, a whole day's work to get five Kommandos? No surprises that this is whats happened

 Mark1130 wrote:
I have. Mostly the pricing, and most of my buddies including me buy from eBay or even Craigslist from time to time. I haven't nor will I buy direct from GW.

eBay is where you'll find the best deals.
Op, GW did just release new policy & procedures, and GW has made it very difficult for FLGS to properly keep stock. Stores have to jump threw hoops now, most stores wont. Not worth it for them.

Have to say I need 4 meganobz to finish my ork list so figured ebay was the place to be to get it done without buying direct from GW...had a solid laugh when the *cheapest* model I found out there was $2 more expensive than a brand new fine cast meganob from GW...:\ I find myself in an odd place where GW direct is the more affordable option. Did the world go insane when I wasn't looking?

Add in the fact that all the figs on ebay were painted in horrible paint schemes that would have to be removed and the direct purchase looks even better...

Skriker

One can only hope it's a trend.

 Kroothawk wrote:

MadmanMSU wrote:
]But they still post profits. Every year. For over a decade.

This is the same argument you see on every forum. "GW is going under! They're dieing out!" Blah blah blah.

Yeah, GW's revenue is growing like hell

And last year, their growth even equalled inflation rate

Funny how their peak coincided with Dawn of War.

It was more the Return of the King

caylentor wrote:
It was more the Return of the King

I dunno, any game that sells a million copies had to have had a positive impact.

 Super Ready wrote:

We have two places nearby that used to stock GW - a small local model shop (mostly selling things like model railways and Airfix) and a Hobbycraft, which is a big hobby chain that typically has an aisle or two of the same model railway/Airfix stuff along with stuff to make scenery and so on.
The former stopped stocking a couple of years ago, as a combination of our GW opening and one of the price hikes at about the same time - they (understandably) got a bit butthurt about it and told GW where they could shove it. The latter I think has just realised that they're not selling that well, so they're sloooooowly selling off the stock they already have as I assume GW won't take it back (they're still selling a couple of old kits GW no longer stocks, sadly nothing retroactively valuable).

Well, I got a 10 man box of Dire Avengers from Hobbycraft the other day. I was very happy with myself

But Hobbycraft seems to stock a fair amount of GW stuff. For pretty much every 40k and, to a lesser extent, WHFB armies, they have a box of basic troops, as well as some other stuff (i.e. a Trygon, High Elf Dragon). They've got most of the codices/army books and even stock a few LotR boxes. I have noticed that they've stopped stocking GW modelling supplies, such as paints, glue and flock. That makes sense though, since there's always several aisles surrounding it with the same sort of stuff - just cheaper. I can't imagine they'd sell well.

I know the owner of my FLGS from high school. He has always been a huge fantasy player. He stocks a good amount of GW stuff, and a lot of magic card stuff, also a good selection of board games. The main thing that keeps his gw sales up is the local community he has developed from years of being the hobby. If you come in and order things off the shelf he gives out a large discount allowing him to make a little easy cash and keep us coming. On a side note gw has opened a store in the our city and the sales guy is pushy enough to leave a bad taste in your mouth. I don't want to be sold a $20 tape measure when i came in specifically for a tyrant guard.

I have seen 3 Gaming stores outside my are in the last year drop GW line because it doesn't sell at full price at thier store. At the final tournament at the store the one owner roughly stated, 'I can't afford to order enough volume of GW product to offer a discount to warhammer gamers, and since they can buy it online at a discount I can't compete.' The other store owners stated similar as well. I must admitt one went under altogether.

In my local area there are 2 stores one is poorly run and on the verge of dropping GW line and maybe going out of buisness. The other is rated as one of the top 10 independant retailers of GW product. He does not sell via the internet, although I think his success is based on the fact that the town his store is in, is populated by alot of well-to-do and rich people.

I do think the ebay and 20-25% discount stores online have made it difficult for most other stores to compete, however I can't say either way if its bad buisness practice or internet purchases. There mixed success and failure going on both ways.

 Kroothawk wrote:
And last year, their growth even equalled inflation rate

You are showing total revenue which gives a much clearer picture of them growing, sustaining or losing market share.
What was being pointed out are "profits" which by shrinking expenses they can internally inflate.
This is what is confusing other people: rather than invest in regaining market share they would rather cannibalize their organization to make it appear healthy and repeatedly tailor their reports to focus on profits.
They honestly think the "local stores" are middle men at best or competitors at worst so they are making it uncomfortable for their product to be sold by anyone other than GW.

The graph shows no real trend yet so another year may give some indication.

(thanks for the graph by the way)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakkamite wrote:
My FLGS only stocks ancient GW stuff that has a thick coat of dust, though they will order things in.
It's all Magic and Infinity now. And seriously, a whole day's work to get five Kommandos? No surprises that this is whats happened

My closest store is the same way, the MTG people have taken over and the Infinity players are making me jealous (they seem to have a lot of fun) so I may have to take a look.
The store owner told me that MTG by itself could float his store, never mind models, board games, FOW, X-wing and the ton of RC cars and aircraft.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
I do think the ebay and 20-25% discount stores online have made it difficult for most other stores to compete, however I can't say either way if its bad buisness practice or internet purchases. There mixed success and failure going on both ways.

More often than not the failure of a gaming/hobby store is due specifically to the lack of business acumen of the owner of that store and less because of someone else's business models. There are plenty of independent stockists that do just fine on their GW sales despite the existence of those online retailers. Those who blame the online sellers for the failure of their store are fooling themselves because that means that despite declining sales in their GW minis they did nothing to boost sales elsewhere to make up the difference and generate new revenue. *That* is not the fault of those other sellers.

Skriker