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After playing few Space Wolves games each week this summer i can sum up the SW army a bit:

What is cool:
- Grey Hunters with dual special weapons. They can do two things - hold the objective, or drop pod to exterminate a unit and die the next turn from shooting. Yes, they do well in assault. But nobody does assault anymore. They just shoot.
- Rune Priests - they are still great. They can help Long Fangs to hit (Prescience) or they can wreak havoc with Jaws/Lightning/Tempest Wrath. They do well in close combat. What is nice, is that they can be a tarpit for a CSM biker list. Two priests with Runic Armour on a bike can destroy or hold a CSM biker unit for few turns. Event if it is a Slanesh build with a warlock and a lord - the rune priest with few swift claws still performs very well.
- Long Fangs - HBoler/MLauncher - two squads of them, each with prescience/perfect timing Rune Priests can do great. Kraks ID MEQs and anything with save 3+.
- Razorback (TL, TAssault, Hbolter) - cheap as dirt, you can spam them and they do more than well. Razorback spam with TL/LasPlas/ can do great againts flyers. And it is a bit more cost effective than Aegis.

What is not so cool:
- VIndicator - it is a fire magnet. Every enemy unit try to shoot it the first turn. Event if the pen results are ok, it is very easy to glan it to death in one turn.
- TWC - i've used them in a dozen of games. They need cover while getting to the enemy. And it is easy to kill them during overwatch (if a unit is large enough). Yes, they can cut small units in one turn. But they get shoot after that.
- Logan wing. Less units means less shooting. Means once you loose your alpha strike team you are as good as dead. Drop pod logan wing can execute few enemy tanks in one turn, but they are unlikely to survive to the next turn.
- Land Speeders and Dreds can do ok, at least till the enemy next shooting phase.

What is very bad:
- no flyers
- no dedicated antiflyer
- Assault Terminators hardly ever make it to the assault. Drop pod isn't an option if you want to assault. And a land raider is a very big fire magnet (and easy to destroy with Lances).

I am still looking for a competitive list (and not the stand and shoot if possible). I know i can take allies (SM, Guard). Still, I believe, that we play Space Wolves to play Space Wolves

I've been working on my space wolves list ... http://www.thedarkcity.net/t6960p120-lig-s-duckdrake-s-tdc-blog-tactics-unit-analysis-batreps-observations-new-codex-ideas-sept-12th - page 7

I'm going to eventually run my RP on a bike and him to a concussive grav bike squad with a CM or Captain. Goodbye Riptides, WKS, DKs, Talos, etc., etc. Concussive and Jaws is almost broken.

I don't get the combo. Concussive and Jaws?

Grav weapons and Jaws of the World Wolf.

First a weapon that ignores armour and reduces you to initiative one.

Then an attack that ignores all saves and makes you take an initiative check or remove the affected model from play regardless of remaining wounds.

Jefffar wrote:
Grav weapons and Jaws of the World Wolf.

First a weapon that ignores armour and reduces you to initiative one.

Then an attack that ignores all saves and makes you take an initiative check or remove the affected model from play regardless of remaining wounds.

This would take two rounds of shooting wouldn't it? Or could you do it all in one round?

One round.

It's hard to tell in some ways about Tau/Eldar because many of the top players are using that combo. This makes the tourney results a chicken/egg problem.

The combi-bomb is probably better for sure than using MLs, but then, nearly anything is better than using MLs in 6th. The problems I see with the combi-bomb are terrain placement, bubblewrapping, and, of course, armies you don't want to drop on top of.

I think it says it all though that SW are resorting to 42 combi weapons to compete. The regular marines dont' even have this options, and after being updated for 6th, the Wolves might be in the same boat. It's clear the Tau/Eldar codices are completely superior at the moment, since they don't have resort to this kind of list.

Martel732 wrote:
It's hard to tell in some ways about Tau/Eldar because many of the top players are using that combo. This makes the tourney results a chicken/egg problem.

The combi-bomb is probably better for sure than using MLs, but then, nearly anything is better than using MLs in 6th. The problems I see with the combi-bomb are terrain placement, bubblewrapping, and, of course, armies you don't want to drop on top of.

I think it says it all though that SW are resorting to 42 combi weapons to compete. The regular marines dont' even have this options, and after being updated for 6th, the Wolves might be in the same boat. It's clear the Tau/Eldar codices are completely superior at the moment, since they don't have resort to this kind of list.

I agree with the limitations of the combi bomb, and because of those factors I don't think it's a GT Winning list. It is however capable of competing with the 6ED Power Builds, which is more than most codexes can generate. It's the best pure Wolves option (the other option is 9 pods, 4 Rune Priests, bare bones squads). I also think Wolves shine as allies, obviously. No IG list cannot be improved by a Rune Priest or two and a GH squad for counter assault, and White Scars lists can definitely use a Rune Priest on a bike (or two).

I actually hold high hopes for the new Wolves book (whenever it may come), here's why.

I expect Grey Hunters to retain BP/Bolter/CCW, because they've always had some variety of a way of to have extra attacks (the old Grim Resolve Rule, I believe it was called back in the day), but I expect them to buck the trend and actually go up in cost. I don't know if they will get an actual price increase, or just lose the free special (or both), but I would guess they end up paying an extra 1-2 points per model. The thing is, they would still be worth it at that price; they're just that much better than normal TACS. Right now the problem with Grey Hunters is that the rest of the codex falls apart around them (obviously not counting Rune Priests). But I expect the following additional changes to help support GHs in the 6ed environment.

1) Cheaper Rune Priests. Runic Weapon is obviously getting nerfed, but Rune Priests will drop to 6ED Librarian/Sorcerer prices. If they retain Divination Access, they will be fantastic, and remain a must take.

2) Cheaper Predators and Whirldwinds. Right now Wolves don't have a codex internal HS option. Overpriced Preds and Fragile Long Fangs. Their vehicle costs should drop in line with the rest of the Marine books.

3) Cheaper Wolf Lords. Wolf Lords are already killy as hell, on par with Chaos Lords, but much more expensive. They're going to drop in price. And unlike the other books, the Wolves don't suffer for HQ slots (assuming they retain leaders of the pack). If Chaos Space Marines could take 4HQ, they would be a much stronger book. If Wolf Lords and Rune Priests both drop in price (which they should, judging by the other books); Space Wolves will be able to do a lot of good out of their HQ slot. I've been having fun running two Thunderlords attached to 15 Fenrisian Wolves; that unit is ALMOST worth it at its current cost. If it becomes cheaper, who knows. I also expect Fenrisian Wolves to either get a price drop or a stats boost (compare them to Flesh Hounds or Seekers; which are both similar units, but much better).

4) Cheaper Blood Claws. I expect Blood Claws to drop to 12 points per dude (right inbetween a regular TAC Marine and a Black Templar Neophyte). That would make them an incredible unit.

5) Codex internal AA (maybe Hunter/Stalker, maybe something new). That will help; although I don't think anti air is as important as it was a few months ago.

6) Some stupid giant Wolf MC. It's going to happen, we all know it will. haha. But even it doesn't, changes 1-5 are enough for a powerful 6ED Army.

Cheap Marine bodies (blood claws), Good Marine bodies (Grey Hunters), point efficient HS, and a stacked and versatile HQ selection. That's more than enough to compete. Losing Runic Weapon and Jaws will hurt, but the gains in being able to run a balanced list will offset it IMO.

 hazal wrote:
As a SW player a easier way to get that anti air would be to ally in the C:SM.

Hq of choice
Min scout unit
Storm Talon
Storm Raven

Better to go IG with Vendettas and get a CCS with whatever weapons and Vets w/specials or Infantry platoons for meat shields with flamers. Or just barebones CCS and Inf squad if going cheap.