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Are they that good?
Because I am wondering what to do with my newly bought Sevrin-Loth /w JP.

Well, telepathy can lock up squads. Psychic scream can do nasty things on a bad roll. Invisibility is quite nice. So is hallucinate. It's not divination, but the price is right

Faq came out seems that the command squad can have special weapons, 5 grav guns on a relentless platform equals 15 grav shots! Add in scout moves with either Raven Guard or Khan and you will kill any riptide or mc with a armor save turn 1.

Hmm, good idea.
Would come down to 120 for the axe and JP.
I also like the Primary power, it kills MC's.

What about Special Issue Wargear?

What is the point on the FAQ of allowing pistol to swap for chainswords. Just more evidence that no one at GW actually plays their own game.

I'm just going to have to write my own sm codex as what it should have been. Then get it approved by every TO in the country!

 Fulcrum wrote:
What is the point on the FAQ of allowing pistol to swap for chainswords. Just more evidence that no one at GW actually plays their own game.

I'm just going to have to write my own sm codex as what it should have been. Then get it approved by every TO in the country!

That way they can then swap the melee weapon for a special weapon in the armory.

This is also how it was done in the DA codex.

Haha so they didn't word it to allow the bolt pistol to be swapped out? Didn't even notice that. At least there's not as many blatant mistakes as there was in DA on release.

You shouldn't be able to buy Eternal Warrior. That is just annoying, in my opinion. Adding cool special rules isn't a problem, but Eternal Warrior is for the rarest and most indomitable warriors in the galaxy. Just a little grievance, but still.

 Fulcrum wrote:
Haha so they didn't word it to allow the bolt pistol to be swapped out? Didn't even notice that. At least there's not as many blatant mistakes as there was in DA on release.

They did it that way so sternguard can't keep the bolter and still grab a special weapon. Was hoping they would errata the pistol as a swap for just that reason, but alas GW hates me (as evidenced by them teasing me with heavy flamer tacticals in the White Dwarf).

Martel732 wrote:
Okay geniuses. Have I imagined MLs accomplishing absolutely nothing? What exactly are the good for other than IDing T4 models with 3+ armor?

Well it partially depends on which army you're using for comparative context, because IF gets Tank Hunters and SW can take a ton of them very cheaply, but generally:
1. AV13 and lower vehicles
2. MCs with 3+ saves (which is most of them)
3. Most elite infantry (everything that doesn't have a 2+ save, which, again, is most things)
4. Hordes

In addition, they are the only heavy weapon that can take an anti-flying missile. I do think the total cost for ML and Flakk is 5 points too expensive, they should be 10 and 10 or 15 and 5, but depending on if you've got the slots in the FOC or want to spend the points on a flyer, they can be a good buy.

They need other tools around them because otherwise the periodic quadtide and tri-raider list will be very tough to handle, but they have a lot of versatility. They do a lot of things well. The problem is they don't do one or two things super well, and everyone wants them to do one or two things super well instead of a bunch of stuff decently.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fulcrum wrote:
Haha so they didn't word it to allow the bolt pistol to be swapped out? Didn't even notice that. At least there's not as many blatant mistakes as there was in DA on release.

I mean, the unspecified melee weapon rule on 51, if you follow the breadcrumbs logically, means that bolt pistols have to be melee weapons, but GW probably isn't that clever, or just opted for the easy answer instead of explaining it and verifying it.

I have to disagree on hordes. Frag missiles are terrible.

 CKO wrote:
Faq came out seems that the command squad can have special weapons, 5 grav guns on a relentless platform equals 15 grav shots! Add in scout moves with either Raven Guard or Khan and you will kill any riptide or mc with a armor save turn 1.

This.

I thought Bike Squads with 9 Grav Gun shots for 125pts were going to be rough, 15 for 210pts is a pretty good buy and a pretty hard counter to some of the big nasties out there.

Actually, as I write this I'm not as concerned about the Command Squads with Grav Weapons, the Standard scoring Squads will be nastier and more points efficient albeit with reduced T3+ firepower.

I see the Biker Command Squad with a couple of Grav Guns, couple of Storm Shields, Apothecary, a pair of Lightning Claws led by a Shield Eternal/Thunderhammer/Artificer Armor Chaper Master on a Bike being absolutely nasty.



The word on C:SM... Bikes are in, Bikes with Grav are just Gravy.

IMO a White Scars list led by a Beatstick Chapter Master(Bike, Shield Eternal, Thunder Hammer, Artificer Armor) with a Grav/Storm Shield/Lightning Claw/Apothecary Bike Command Squad with Khan, a Second Grav Command Squad, and mixed Troop Bike Squads will be about the nastiest SM build I can see right now. Although Khan won't be required. 24" is enough to guarentee target priority and T2 Shoot Assault. It'd be hand for redeployment... I'm thinking a Bike ML2 Libby would actually be more useful here.

I already got 5 more bikes off ebay. I will strip them and bring into the Raven guard fold. Or maybe run them as "Red Scars" detachment.

So everyone is going with Bikes and Grav?

I think I'm going to buck the trend on this one, it seems to be too flimsy for me.

I can see that you get lots of bikes in 1000 pts, but how does it hold up to Drakespam? How does it cope with a Serpent full of Scythe Wraiths?

While the Grav Bike lists I've seen are versatile, they are not fool proof and have glaring weaknesses.

I"m not spamming them. I'm using 10 max in a White Scar detachment. I'm still bringing AA. I'm counting on Tau and Eldar to hold off the Drakespam.

I might also build Stormraven spam if I can get some cheap Stormravens.

Martel732 wrote:
cheap Stormravens.

If you find any, let me know. I want to know that they actually exists. Even through online discounters and Ebay, they are still fething expensive.

Martel732 wrote:
I"m not spamming them. I'm using 10 max in a White Scar detachment. I'm still bringing AA. I'm counting on Tau and Eldar to hold off the Drakespam.

I might also build Stormraven spam if I can get some cheap Stormravens.

Ahhhh fair enough, that seems to be ok.

As for Ravenspam, is that even a thing?

The Raven is a beast, but spamming them is not something I want to do.

Yeah, it's probably the best BA tourney build.

Martel732 wrote:
Yeah, it's probably the best BA tourney build.

I suppose it has some big advantages in that you don't really need any other transports or tanks or even flyers as the Raven gives three of these things in one package.

It even transports Dreads, which aren't great, but can be useful.

Hey guys, I just noticed a subtle change that makes Thunderfires even better than before!

Bolster Defenses - now refers to "a piece of terrain" instead of just ruins so if you take multiple TFCs you can bolster several pieces and they can be any type. (you cannot bolster the same piece twice and it cannot be a piece you purchased).

 Kolath wrote:
Hey guys, I just noticed a subtle change that makes Thunderfires even better than before!

Bolster Defenses - now refers to "a piece of terrain" instead of just ruins so if you take multiple TFCs you can bolster several pieces and they can be any type. (you cannot bolster the same piece twice and it cannot be a piece you purchased).

Not a bad idea, but would you need to take more than one, ever?

Puscifer wrote:

 Kolath wrote:
Hey guys, I just noticed a subtle change that makes Thunderfires even better than before!

Bolster Defenses - now refers to "a piece of terrain" instead of just ruins so if you take multiple TFCs you can bolster several pieces and they can be any type. (you cannot bolster the same piece twice and it cannot be a piece you purchased).

Not a bad idea, but would you need to take more than one, ever?

Need? No. Want? Yes. Which I do quite frequently.

Yeah, I regularly take two. Two was about the most I could reasonably expect to get good firing lanes for. But with them now being barrage and a therefore able to hit anything on the table indirectly, I am considering taking three.

 NickTheButcher wrote:

Puscifer wrote:

 Kolath wrote:
Hey guys, I just noticed a subtle change that makes Thunderfires even better than before!

Bolster Defenses - now refers to "a piece of terrain" instead of just ruins so if you take multiple TFCs you can bolster several pieces and they can be any type. (you cannot bolster the same piece twice and it cannot be a piece you purchased).

Not a bad idea, but would you need to take more than one, ever?

Need? No. Want? Yes. Which I do quite frequently.

I played a game this past weekend against a guy who used Iron Hands and two techmarines. To his credit, his vehicles were stupid hard to kill, and he was able to modify two pieces of terrain to make them 3+ and 4+, respectively.

I mean, I still beat him because my Tau just laugh at cover, but it was a neat idea.

Yea, against tau pathfinders are target numero uno.

 Leth wrote:
Yea, against tau pathfinders are target numero uno.

There's a Thunderfire cannon for that. S5 ignores cover and now has Barrage so it doesn't need line of sight. Roast some Pathfinders turn 1, then roast some Fire Warriors next turn.

 Wilytank wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Yea, against tau pathfinders are target numero uno.

There's a Thunderfire cannon for that. S5 ignores cover and now has Barrage so it doesn't need line of sight. Roast some Pathfinders turn 1, then roast some Fire Warriors next turn.

Yeah, that would work. Assuming you go first, of course. And you don't scatter too bad. And they don't use marker drones. Pathfinders are pretty weak outside of cover.

I'm liking a few things in the Dex so far.

I like that you can take multiple Chapter Masters for multiple Orbital Bombardments which you can throw out first turn.

Double tanking Iron Hands Chapter Masters also looks pretty solid.

TFC's are even better in this dex.

Tigirius is useful in multiple ways, buffing through Div, reserves manipulation possibly coupled with Gaze.

Is anyone thinking that a Master level 2 Librarian on a bike with Iron Arm is going to be amazing...

Hopefully get Iron Arm and maybe taking prescience. Give him the Burning Blade Relic and AA armor with a storm shield.

Iron Arm goes off with +3 to Strength and Toughness. He is going to be Strength 10 with the burning blade since it adds +3 Strength and +3 strength from iron arm and Toughess 8 being on a bike. And with Prescience you are rerolling to hit with a 2+/3++ saves.

Also you could get warp speed and endurance. Thoughts?

MadmanMSU wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Yea, against tau pathfinders are target numero uno.

There's a Thunderfire cannon for that. S5 ignores cover and now has Barrage so it doesn't need line of sight. Roast some Pathfinders turn 1, then roast some Fire Warriors next turn.

Yeah, that would work. Assuming you go first, of course. And you don't scatter too bad. And they don't use marker drones. Pathfinders are pretty weak outside of cover.

And provided the Pathfinders aren't on the first floor of a ruin.