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I've never fielded the TFC, but it's definitely one of the more useful HS choices.

Right now, it's looking like an AA tank and a TFC for HS choices with the third slot to add your own flavour, depending on how you roll.

So, here's a question. You have the techmarine gunner, but he doesn't NEED to be the one firing, right?

So hypothetically you could take IF CT and give it Tank Hunters by having devastators man it, right?

I mean, you wouldn't really use that very often, and the inability to deduct BS means a lot of vehicles would get scattered off of, but if you land one or two on top of an AV10 or 11 vehicle that reroll for armor pen could help in destroying it.

And then have the techmarine go do something like hang out next to a Predator Annihilator or inside a Stormraven or something and keep giving it Hull Points back.

Ally IH and IF for instant fun.

Or am I getting ahead of myself in that the gunner can't leave the TFC and the TFC can only be manned by someone else in the case of the techmarine's death?

DogofWar1 wrote:
So, here's a question. You have the techmarine gunner, but he doesn't NEED to be the one firing, right?

So hypothetically you could take IF CT and give it Tank Hunters by having devastators man it, right?

I mean, you wouldn't really use that very often, and the inability to deduct BS means a lot of vehicles would get scattered off of, but if you land one or two on top of an AV10 or 11 vehicle that reroll for armor pen could help in destroying it.

And then have the techmarine go do something like hang out next to a Predator Annihilator or inside a Stormraven or something and keep giving it Hull Points back.

Ally IH and IF for instant fun.

Or am I getting ahead of myself in that the gunner can't leave the TFC and the TFC can only be manned by someone else in the case of the techmarine's death?

The gun can't be manned by anyone except the unit you buy it with. An IC can man a gun by joining the artillery unit, but devastators can never man a TFC. The techmarine can only leave the gun if it's destroyed, and if the techmarine dies the gun is useless.

 Roboute wrote:

The gun can't be manned by anyone except the unit you buy it with. An IC can man a gun by joining the artillery unit, but devastators can never man a TFC. The techmarine can only leave the gun if it's destroyed, and if the techmarine dies the gun is useless.

Ah, ok. Thanks for the clarification.

 tomjoad wrote:
So, the multiple barrage placement rules are, I'd say, much worse than just firing 4 small blasts and scattering them seperately. However, this is still a very good unit. The multiple barrage rules are just the difference between fielding 3-4 or 1-2 per list. That is, it's strong, but not broken.

Multiple barrages are better then you think. If shots after the first roll hits then you can freely place it as long as it touches the previous ones. This allows you to maximize hits rather then be stuck with the center hole over a base, important against 2" coherency (what would have been one hit as a normal blast becomes multiple) or squadrons or parking lots in general.

Yes the first shot missing can screw your phase up but for most situations you can walk the blasts back or you are firing into a horde unit or castle. I don't see it as much worse at all really.

So this rules change is indeed a double edged sword.

Barrage indeed has two situational drawbacks but they are eclipsed by the situational bonuses.

--barrage sniping,
--hit maximization via multiple barrage rules
--being able to hide against out of LOS and still affect the game (nice for big guns never tire)
--Can set up behind units without providing having to worry about cover (ignore cover shot still allows armor saves and S6 will always be more effective if cover is not an issue)
--hitting side armor with S6
--being able to negate hard LOS cover and still get S6 shots in if need be (FNP negation, vehicles, etc).

End of day TFC is still a reasonably priced heavy support option and for most games and situations is better (in my opinion). I know I was holding off buying more as I expected a nerf, not a boost.

The problem with 'walking back' is that all shots after the first have to touch the original shot. Plus, if we assume that the first template is placed to maximize the number of hits, you're better off with each 'hit' rolled landing right there, rather than in tangency. Obviously, barrage sniping is powerful, but multiple barrage really limits the maximum number of wounds you can do, so it is far from being all upside.

 tomjoad wrote:
The problem with 'walking back' is that all shots after the first have to touch the original shot. Plus, if we assume that the first template is placed to maximize the number of hits, you're better off with each 'hit' rolled landing right there, rather than in tangency. Obviously, barrage sniping is powerful, but multiple barrage really limits the maximum number of wounds you can do, so it is far from being all upside.

The problem is you can't maximize hits when forced to keep the small hole over a base. Especially with a small blast against a unit spread out 2". You are often only get 1 hit no matter what base you select due to the unit being spread out. Remove that restriction with subsequent hits and you can catch at least two if not more even if they are spread out.

Yes walking back doesn't always work and I am not saying there's never times it will be worse then a direct shot. But units are often spread when they see a TFC, so the chance of scrubbing a shot within LOS is lower then you think

I guess what I am saying is that multiple barrage is not 'much worse', just situationally worse and situationally better (and to me there's more times it will be better or at least no worse off)

Fair enough. I've never used a TFC before this weekend, so I'm not really used to opponents bothering to spread out properly. I've played one game, using 3 TFCs, and I'm going to keep using 2 or 3 for a while as I figure out my list. I'm just used to my own lazy spacing, getting hit 10 times by a single TFC hit (and Corbulo tanking a total of 20 wounds from them over the game). I can be happy with 6-7 hits/shot, though.