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For a 1K army I am thinking of taking 18 genestealers in 2 squads with broodlords as troops.

My hq choice is basically a swarmlord or tyranid prime with boneswords and toxin sacs.

Question is what should I take as a squad for him to join.

I was thinking of taking 3 Zoanthropes on biomancy (until I get iron arm and then not roll the rest) and stick one with iron arm close to him so I can lookout sir to the zoanthrope who will have eternal warrior and therefore give myself some instant death resistance.

What is everyone elses opinions?

I cant think of a better squad to stick him with...

Take both! Adding the prime is the ONLY way of getting extra wounds on the Swarmlord without losing Iron arms effectiveness. 1 Swarmlord, 1 Guard and 1 Prime. Toughness 6(7-9), T6 and T5. Since they are all different you get to choose the highest! With Iron arm that's 10 T 9 wounds. Taking a Prime is like taking an extra guard (T difference doesn't matter as he will only use Majority of at least 6 so the extra 20pts are fair for an extra wound, attack, WS and I) except he is better, can take regen to tank some wounds then maybe regen them, and he doesn't lose you your On arm toughness. That's one hell of a NidStar!

Iron arm only affects the casting model though and not the unit, or am I getting confused...?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh wait I see what you mean. Hummm interesting, lots of points though.

Shingen wrote:
Iron arm only affects the casting model though and not the unit, or am I getting confused...?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh wait I see what you mean. Hummm interesting, lots of points though.

Meh, some death stars pay far more than what a Swarmstar does.

30 termagants.

The only thing scarier than a Tyranid prime, is a Tyranid Prime with +30 wounds.

He can then skip to another unit at the perfect time if needed, but in truth.... lower the appeal of shooting at the other unit by presenting a threat of a Prime with 30 extra wounds (vs shooting).

If you're charging something not too amazing, like a tactical squad or something, the prime will do enough...

If going vs something scarier like some dedicated combat stuff, he can join a squad that's fast enough to keep up once he's ahead (like shrikes jumping from behind cover or raveners or something) or nearby fexes or stealers...

But, for the duration of the footslog - give him the 30 termagant fire shield and a nice tervigon behind so that the termagants ain't too shabby themselves!

Interesting idea although the termagaunts themselves I dont think add much to an army unless they are in a spore with devourers.

I like the tyrant guard idea a lot.

Any other ideas?

Its 3 Genestealer squads btw not 2 that I am taking

Using (or abusing) the majority Toughness rule is cheesy imho

I use mine with a pair of carnifexes.
Give him a lash whip so the carnifexes get to hit first on the charge and most everything get pulverised.
Casting endurance on it makes it even harder to deal with.

Shingen wrote:Interesting idea although the termagaunts themselves I dont think add much to an army unless they are in a spore with devourers.

The problem is we can't attach ICs to units in Mycetic Spores because FAQs hate Tyranids.

Hansisaf wrote:Using (or abusing) the majority Toughness rule is cheesy imho

Pretty sure the Tyranid Codex doesn't have any

One thing I've thought about but have yet to try out is a list with a Flyrant + Tyranid Prime + 3 Tyrant Guard. The idea is to put the Prime in the unit of Tyrant Guard and make said Prime the Warlord. This creates a really durable CC unit that will make opponents tear their hair out trying to get Slay the Warlord, especially if you cast Endurance or Catalyst on the unit. Additionally, if your Flyrant's down to 1-2 Wounds and you want to preserve it you can attach it to said Tyrant Guard unit (interestingly, I can't seem to find any rules preventing you from joining a Swooping FMC to a unit, so you can do so from 24" away). Little pricey for 1000 points though.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

Hansisaf wrote:Using (or abusing) the majority Toughness rule is cheesy imho

Pretty sure the Tyranid Codex doesn't have any

Have you seen the DoM in a spore? Always makes up his points, usually within the first turn. If nothing else, he draws a lot of fire away. That thing with IA is the definition of

 Irkhalu wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

Hansisaf wrote:Using (or abusing) the majority Toughness rule is cheesy imho

Pretty sure the Tyranid Codex doesn't have any

Have you seen the DoM in a spore? Always makes up his points, usually within the first turn. If nothing else, he draws a lot of fire away. That thing with IA is the definition of

a) The Doom's destructive power is very random and relies on your opponent having low leadership and rolling high. The reason people thing the Doom is so powerful is because they forget the times it does barely anything but remember the times they rolled really terribly and it killed a bunch of things.
b) Smart opponents will not provide it the opportunity to deep strike next to a whole bunch of squads at once, unless they play Tau.
c) You have a 1 in 6 chance of rolling Iron Arm, and give up a fantastic shooting attack for that chance.
d) Any opponent that lets a Doom of Malan'tai survive a whole turn to cast Iron Arm on itself should forfeit right then and there, they're either terrible players or were already about to lose.

 Hansisaf wrote:
Using (or abusing) the majority Toughness rule is cheesy imho

I don't understand. How do you want the rules to work? The Tyrant is the biggest thing in the unit, most shots would hit him surely? So they would use his toughness. Or would you prefer you use the Toughness of the closest model, making a phoenix lord upgrade the entire unit from T3 to 4? Also its part of the rules for one, two you could house rule against it if it annoys you *that* much and tree its an old codex that needs everything it can get that isn't the base non negotiable competitive list.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 Irkhalu wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

Hansisaf wrote:Using (or abusing) the majority Toughness rule is cheesy imho

Pretty sure the Tyranid Codex doesn't have any

Have you seen the DoM in a spore? Always makes up his points, usually within the first turn. If nothing else, he draws a lot of fire away. That thing with IA is the definition of

a) The Doom's destructive power is very random and relies on your opponent having low leadership and rolling high. The reason people thing the Doom is so powerful is because they forget the times it does barely anything but remember the times they rolled really terribly and it killed a bunch of things.
b) Smart opponents will not provide it the opportunity to deep strike next to a whole bunch of squads at once, unless they play Tau.
c) You have a 1 in 6 chance of rolling Iron Arm, and give up a fantastic shooting attack for that chance.
d) Any opponent that lets a Doom of Malan'tai survive a whole turn to cast Iron Arm on itself should forfeit right then and there, they're either terrible players or were already about to lose.

Who said anything about losing cataclysm for IA? I like to drop it within range of zoanthropes or a terv with IA so it can still blast away with that SX, LB.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, is it even possible to join the Prime with the Swarmlord, since the Swarmlord (as an MC) can't join any other unit except Tyrant Guard?

 Irkhalu wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 Irkhalu wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

Hansisaf wrote:Using (or abusing) the majority Toughness rule is cheesy imho

Pretty sure the Tyranid Codex doesn't have any

Have you seen the DoM in a spore? Always makes up his points, usually within the first turn. If nothing else, he draws a lot of fire away. That thing with IA is the definition of

a) The Doom's destructive power is very random and relies on your opponent having low leadership and rolling high. The reason people thing the Doom is so powerful is because they forget the times it does barely anything but remember the times they rolled really terribly and it killed a bunch of things.
b) Smart opponents will not provide it the opportunity to deep strike next to a whole bunch of squads at once, unless they play Tau.
c) You have a 1 in 6 chance of rolling Iron Arm, and give up a fantastic shooting attack for that chance.
d) Any opponent that lets a Doom of Malan'tai survive a whole turn to cast Iron Arm on itself should forfeit right then and there, they're either terrible players or were already about to lose.

Who said anything about losing cataclysm for IA? I like to drop it within range of zoanthropes or a terv with IA so it can still blast away with that SX, LB.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, is it even possible to join the Prime with the Swarmlord, since the Swarmlord (as an MC) can't join any other unit except Tyrant Guard?

You can't mix and match rulebook and codex powers. It's all or nothing.

And yes, you can join the Prime to the Swarmy and his pet flunky. This has been a thing for quite a while.

Only as long as he has at least one guard though, because IC can't join single model units.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Only as long as he has at least one guard though, because IC can't join single model units.

Well the Swarmlord's pet attack dog is useful enough on his own merits to be taking with him for walks and bringing down your initiative to one and such.

smee wrote:30 termagants.
The only thing scarier than a Tyranid prime, is a Tyranid Prime with +30 wounds.

This is actually a pretty good idea, I'll be trying this in the future. Makes a change from the Flyrant(s).

Hansisaf wrote:Using (or abusing) the majority Toughness rule is cheesy imho

The rule makes sense though. The Prime has a huge bodyguard of lesser warriors. It makes sense that it's going to hit the more numerous kind first.

Also, there are better "abusers" of the majority Toughness rule. Think Court of the Archon.

 Kain wrote:

You can't mix and match rulebook and codex powers. It's all or nothing.

And yes, you can join the Prime to the Swarmy and his pet flunky. This has been a thing for quite a while.

1. I wasn't mixing dex and BRB powers. I was saying I like to have a Zoan or Terv with BRB powers, and leave the DoM with the dex.

2. Good to know. I had been pairing my Prime with a single Zoan for the benefits (3++ and T5 on ranged due to unit majority rule). I.e. if the shots hitting the twosome are less than S8, I use the 3++ of the Zoan, but for S8+ I use the Prime's save to avoid the ID.

I'll have to try the attack dog idea out.

 Irkhalu wrote:

 Kain wrote:

You can't mix and match rulebook and codex powers. It's all or nothing.

And yes, you can join the Prime to the Swarmy and his pet flunky. This has been a thing for quite a while.

1. I wasn't mixing dex and BRB powers. I was saying I like to have a Zoan or Terv with BRB powers, and leave the DoM with the dex.

2. Good to know. I had been pairing my Prime with a single Zoan for the benefits (3++ and T5 on ranged due to unit majority rule). I'll have to try the attack dog idea out.

If you are pairing the swarmlord with his new armor encased doggy, lash whips are always the best option as they synchronize well with the Swarmlord himself. Reducing most other enemies to initiative one helps him win combat that much more easily.

So would it be more beneficial to have 2+ guard with Swarmy and the Prime, or just the 1?

 Irkhalu wrote:
So would it be more beneficial to have 2+ guard with Swarmy and the Prime, or just the 1?

Just one or else the majority toughness will be six, making Iron arm less valuable.

 Kain wrote:

 Irkhalu wrote:
So would it be more beneficial to have 2+ guard with Swarmy and the Prime, or just the 1?

Just one or else the majority toughness will be six, making Iron arm less valuable.

Ah, good point. I'll try this our at my FLGS tonight and see how many complaints I get. lol

 Irkhalu wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Irkhalu wrote:
So would it be more beneficial to have 2+ guard with Swarmy and the Prime, or just the 1?

Just one or else the majority toughness will be six, making Iron arm less valuable.

Ah, good point. I'll try this our at my FLGS tonight and see how many complaints I get. lol

One benefit of the Swarmlordstar is that it's actually cheaper than many other comparably sized stars and certainly has smaller footprint.

If you attach the Prime to it, I recommend the top arm being an LW+BS set so you can get more models reduced to initiative one with the bottom set being either scything talons or rending claws.

Here is something I tend to run on principle.

Tyranid Prime- Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands, Dual Boneswords.
Carnifex- Toxin Sacs, Adrenal glands, Bioplasma, Dual Scything Talons.

Run the Prime behind the Carnifex. Reap the cover saves.

 Kain wrote:
One benefit of the Swarmlordstar is that it's actually cheaper than many other comparably sized stars and certainly has smaller footprint.

If you attach the Prime to it, I recommend the top arm being an LW+BS set so you can get more models reduced to initiative one with the bottom set being either scything talons or rending claws.

Rending claws seems redundant given that the BS already bypasses armor, and since I normally run my Prime with 2xBS (for the 3d6 LD ID), freeing up 5pts for the LW should be easy enough. Certainly an interesting concept for a durable "star"

I also usually run 2xT.Guard, so dropping one allows me to take the LW/BS, and after tweaking the list, still had enough points to put regen on the Prime.

 Irkhalu wrote:

 Kain wrote:
One benefit of the Swarmlordstar is that it's actually cheaper than many other comparably sized stars and certainly has smaller footprint.

If you attach the Prime to it, I recommend the top arm being an LW+BS set so you can get more models reduced to initiative one with the bottom set being either scything talons or rending claws.

Rending claws seems redundant given that the BS already bypasses armor, and since I normally run my Prime with 2xBS (for the 3d6 LD ID), freeing up 5pts for the LW should be easy enough. Certainly an interesting concept for a durable "star"

I also usually run 2xT.Guard, so dropping one allows me to take the LW/BS, and after tweaking the list, still had enough points to put regen on the Prime.

Run wound allocation shenanigans to drink your enemy's tears.

Bonus points if something can cast Endurance while you have Iron arm on it to have IWND and FNP passed around.

Dragon points if you also have warp speed on top of all that.

 Kain wrote:

 Irkhalu wrote:

 Kain wrote:
One benefit of the Swarmlordstar is that it's actually cheaper than many other comparably sized stars and certainly has smaller footprint.

If you attach the Prime to it, I recommend the top arm being an LW+BS set so you can get more models reduced to initiative one with the bottom set being either scything talons or rending claws.

Rending claws seems redundant given that the BS already bypasses armor, and since I normally run my Prime with 2xBS (for the 3d6 LD ID), freeing up 5pts for the LW should be easy enough. Certainly an interesting concept for a durable "star"

I also usually run 2xT.Guard, so dropping one allows me to take the LW/BS, and after tweaking the list, still had enough points to put regen on the Prime.

Run wound allocation shenanigans to drink your enemy's tears.

Bonus points if something can cast Endurance while you have Iron arm on it to have IWND and FNP passed around.

Dragon points if you also have warp speed on top of all that.

Well right now the list has 2x 2xZoans, 2x Tervs with 3x powers, so odds are really high it can happen... I figure with 4(swarm)+6to8(zoan)+6(terv) math is in my favor

 Irkhalu wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 Irkhalu wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

Hansisaf wrote:Using (or abusing) the majority Toughness rule is cheesy imho

Pretty sure the Tyranid Codex doesn't have any

Have you seen the DoM in a spore? Always makes up his points, usually within the first turn. If nothing else, he draws a lot of fire away. That thing with IA is the definition of

a) The Doom's destructive power is very random and relies on your opponent having low leadership and rolling high. The reason people thing the Doom is so powerful is because they forget the times it does barely anything but remember the times they rolled really terribly and it killed a bunch of things.
b) Smart opponents will not provide it the opportunity to deep strike next to a whole bunch of squads at once, unless they play Tau.
c) You have a 1 in 6 chance of rolling Iron Arm, and give up a fantastic shooting attack for that chance.
d) Any opponent that lets a Doom of Malan'tai survive a whole turn to cast Iron Arm on itself should forfeit right then and there, they're either terrible players or were already about to lose.

Who said anything about losing cataclysm for IA? I like to drop it within range of zoanthropes or a terv with IA so it can still blast away with that SX, LB.

Iron Arm can only be cast on the psyker using the power.

Also, is it even possible to join the Prime with the Swarmlord, since the Swarmlord (as an MC) can't join any other unit except Tyrant Guard?

No, but you can join both the Swarmlord and the Tyranid Prime to a single unit of Tyrant Guard. Being a Monstrous Creature doesn't affect the ability to join units in the slightest, The Swarmlord can only join Tyrant Guard because it isn't an Independent Character and only Tyrant Guard have the Shield Wall special rule.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 Irkhalu wrote:

Who said anything about losing cataclysm for IA? I like to drop it within range of zoanthropes or a terv with IA so it can still blast away with that SX, LB.

Iron Arm can only be cast on the psyker using the power.

Also, is it even possible to join the Prime with the Swarmlord, since the Swarmlord (as an MC) can't join any other unit except Tyrant Guard?

No, but you can join both the Swarmlord and the Tyranid Prime to a single unit of Tyrant Guard. Being a Monstrous Creature doesn't affect the ability to join units in the slightest, The Swarmlord can only join Tyrant Guard because it isn't an Independent Character and only Tyrant Guard have the Shield Wall special rule.

I knew that about Iron Arm. Dumb mistake.

For whatever reason, I thought T.Guard could only join with tyrants... So that makes things much more clear. Tried it out last night, and the Swarmstar worked to hilarity. Swarmy had IA, and Warp Speed, and the nearby Zoan had Endurance. At one point I had +3S,T,I,A, and with regen on the Prime, I managed to absorb over 12 wounds (good regen rolls). It single handedly controlled the board.

 Irkhalu wrote:
I knew that about Iron Arm. Dumb mistake.

For whatever reason, I thought T.Guard could only join with tyrants... So that makes things much more clear. Tried it out last night, and the Swarmstar worked to hilarity. Swarmy had IA, and Warp Speed, and the nearby Zoan had Endurance. At one point I had +3S,T,I,A, and with regen on the Prime, I managed to absorb over 12 wounds (good regen rolls). It single handedly controlled the board.

So basically, you went for dragon points? Also, it sounds like your experience pretty much sum'd up the expected results. Fun fact, most people expect people to field 2 Flyrants. They are woefully unprepared when the ultimate beatstick comes to the party.