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Legion of the damned are pretty sick now. They're the new sternguard for me in some ways. They're quite badass, they have to deep strike no matter what but get a re-roll on the scatter (it seems they can still be guided by beacons which is sweet). They're fearless and cause fear. Still got that 3+ invul. And here's the kicker, all of their ranged attacks have the ignores cover rules and they're slow and purposeful so they can always charge...




Anyway here's a comparisson of a 10 man legion squad I would run vs a hypothetical 10 man sternguard squad (with vulkan I can see a unit like this being real scary), in all reality these squads could just as easily be a one two punch in the same list. Re-rolling scatter will never beat the safety of a drop pod though.


ELITE - Legion of the damned squad - 325pts
9 legionaires, 2x plasmaguns 1x plasmacannon
1 sgt with plasma pistol and power axe


vs


ELITE - Sternguard veteran squad - 365pts
9 veterans with combi-watervers
1 sgt with combi-whatever


The legion squad comes out as 40pts cheaper than the sternguard. Now granted the sternguard squad is still better for pure killability, the legion squad can really make a dent on units in cover and no matter what weapons you give them, they will always ignore cover which is totally badass. A downside of the legionaires is they don't benefit from chapter tactics so that's another point fo the sternguard. The legionaires also cannot ever be joined by an ic. The fact that legionaires have an invul and will never run is pretty sweet. Add that to the fact that they're pretty good in combat and might be hittin on 3's occasionally. The sgt is also pretty safe in a challenge, making the axe that much of a better choice, might even be the ideal candidate for a powerfist, remember those? The slow and purposeful is huge, means they can unload with plasma and still charge, the plasmacannon even gets to shoot after deepstrike.

Anyway, really enjoying the new dex.

LotD are 3pts more expensive than SG, and don't come with Special Ammo. Yes, their attacks ignore cover, but SG can do that anyway with Dragonfire Rounds, and still have more variety of rounds for different targets. The 3++ save is good I admit, but it's no better than standard Power Armour against mass-fire. Yes they can fire Plasma and still charge but you're giving up on Overwatch, which is a big drawback in some cases when you're Deep Striking right in assault range.

Edit: In short, they've got better, but I still don't think they're as good as Sternguard.

As good as sternguard in what capacity though? I fully admit sternguard can do more damage initially, 10 combi plas or melta is really deadly. But after that they die pretty easy, at least easier than legionaires.

On the alpha strike, no question sterguard are still king but these guys are close second and a great second punch if you've got a beacon on the sternguard's pod.

Maybe the LoD are better, but the Eldar would like to say hi with their scatterlaser/shruicannon walkers. Your invulnerable saves mean nothing.

The inv save means more in combat than from shooting, I have no illusion there. But if we're talking eldar, legion can really hurt serpents and bikes, bye bye jink. Hell you can do a cheap 5 man squad too if you're worried about losing'm to mass fire. And if if you wanna maximize high strength you could do 2 melta and a multimelta all for a whopping 155pts. That's the base cost of a 5 man sternguard squad with pod and nothing else.

Yeah, that would have some utility. Still won't kill a serpent on average, or even really get close, but it's something I guess.

Martel732 wrote:
Yeah, that would have some utility. Still won't kill a serpent on average, or even really get close, but it's something I guess.

2 bs4 meltaguns and a bs4 multi-melta won't kill an av 12 vehicle on average if they're within 6/12?

How can you guarantee the squad won't get close? They deep strike and get a re-roll on the scatter, seems like a decent chance to me to put them pretty much next to whatever you want. It's riskier than a pod no doubt but a pod can still misshap if it scatters of the board.


Points for points I'll take legionaires over sternguard. At least for small squads.

155pts for 5 stern in a pod with nothing. All you get there is a for sure turn one drop.

155pts for 5 legionaires with 2 melta and a multi-melta. Struck with having to roll.

They certainly look like theyve been improved from the old dex, which is nice.

If I was gonna run them though, itd have to be flame and melta weapons instead of Plasma. Its the LotD after all. Wouldnt feel right without flames and melta in there.,

Not an AV 12 vehicle with a serpent shield. Don't forget you only average two hits, that will both be glances. There goes your hopes right there.

I meant get close to killing it. Yeah, they can get close physically. And probably get shurikened to death the next turn. The Eldar seriously give me flashbacks back to 2nd edition.

Martel732 wrote:
Not an AV 12 vehicle with a serpent shield. Don't forget you only average two hits, that will both be glances. There goes your hopes right there.

I meant get close to killing it. Yeah, they can get close physically. And probably get shurikened to death the next turn. The Eldar seriously give me flashbacks back to 2nd edition.

You cookin the books here mac, lets assume when you have the choice where to deep strike you do it near the one that fired. If they don't scatter, well holy quacamole that's one dead serpent.

Martel732 wrote:
Not an AV 12 vehicle with a serpent shield. Don't forget you only average two hits, that will both be glances. There goes your hopes right there.

I meant get close to killing it. Yeah, they can get close physically. And probably get shurikened to death the next turn. The Eldar seriously give me flashbacks back to 2nd edition.

4th edition for me, seeing as it was SkimmerSpam that was king again.

Also Serpant shield doesn't work from the back, if he can get there he can pen them.

 Crablezworth wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Not an AV 12 vehicle with a serpent shield. Don't forget you only average two hits, that will both be glances. There goes your hopes right there.

I meant get close to killing it. Yeah, they can get close physically. And probably get shurikened to death the next turn. The Eldar seriously give me flashbacks back to 2nd edition.

You cookin the books here mac, lets assume when you have the choice where to deep strike you do it near the one that fired. If they don't scatter, well holy quacamole that's one dead serpent.

What Eldar player is going to fire the shield with these guys coming into deep strike? The answer is zero good players. You can't hold your reserves as some kind of threat. The Eldar player waits till these guys show up, and then goes back to full firepower mode. It's not like they don't have good firepower without the shield. That's why they are sick.

Martel732 wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Not an AV 12 vehicle with a serpent shield. Don't forget you only average two hits, that will both be glances. There goes your hopes right there.

I meant get close to killing it. Yeah, they can get close physically. And probably get shurikened to death the next turn. The Eldar seriously give me flashbacks back to 2nd edition.

You cookin the books here mac, lets assume when you have the choice where to deep strike you do it near the one that fired. If they don't scatter, well holy quacamole that's one dead serpent.

What Eldar player is going to fire the shield with these guys coming into deep strike? The answer is zero good players.

So you're telling me that until this unit arrives from reserve (something neither player has knowledge of) it has the power to assure every "good" eldar player in existance will in fact not fire with any of their serpent's shields? That makes me like the legion squad even more.

Also I would look at at Grav Gun, Combi Grav, and a multi melta. Take advantage of that relentless platform. Great way to deliver some AP 2 goodness into your opponents lines.

 Crablezworth wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Not an AV 12 vehicle with a serpent shield. Don't forget you only average two hits, that will both be glances. There goes your hopes right there.

I meant get close to killing it. Yeah, they can get close physically. And probably get shurikened to death the next turn. The Eldar seriously give me flashbacks back to 2nd edition.

You cookin the books here mac, lets assume when you have the choice where to deep strike you do it near the one that fired. If they don't scatter, well holy quacamole that's one dead serpent.

What Eldar player is going to fire the shield with these guys coming into deep strike? The answer is zero good players.

So you're telling me that until this unit arrives from reserve (something neither player has knowledge of) it has the power to assure every "good" eldar player in existance will in fact not fire with any of their serpent's shields? That makes me like the legion squad even more.

Well, what in the marine codex would compel an Eldar player to throw their shields at the marines? They've already got scatterlasers, star cannons, shuricannons, and regular catapults that rend to do that. I'd make your guys come in, fail to kill a serpent, then go about my business. A big part of this is that the scatter laser is a broken weapon. It was broken in 5th, but the Eldar had other issues, so no one noticed. But now we all get to eat this thing to the face every match over and over.

I can also bubble wrap a serpent with jet bikes or some such thing and allow it to fire its shield. Deep striking is a total crap shoot and often is easily foiled.

Deep striking can be incredibly useful, especially in an edition where a deployment type invovles short table edges. And either way, using a wave serpent as a benchmark of a unit is more depressing than useful. Using the marine dex as a metric, I think out of the many elite choices they're pretty good for the points. I also think it will always be stern vs legion, they work great together and can compliment eachother.

also legion can only take one hvy weapon and 1 special weapon. in the whole squad. not for every 5 sadly.

 Crablezworth wrote:
Deep striking can be incredibly useful, especially in an edition where a deployment type invovles short table edges. And either way, using a wave serpent as a benchmark of a unit is more depressing than useful. Using the marine dex as a metric, I think out of the many elite choices they're pretty good for the points. I also think it will always be stern vs legion, they work great together and can compliment eachother.

No, just as Vendettas are the standard for fliers, wave serpents are the new standard for transports. They exist and some people will have them, so they are the new measuring stick. I can't participate in 40K without waveserpents, so they can not be ignored.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
also legion can only take one hvy weapon and 1 special weapon. in the whole squad. not for every 5 sadly.

Ya someone on another forum mentioned that this morning, changes things a wee bit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
Deep striking can be incredibly useful, especially in an edition where a deployment type invovles short table edges. And either way, using a wave serpent as a benchmark of a unit is more depressing than useful. Using the marine dex as a metric, I think out of the many elite choices they're pretty good for the points. I also think it will always be stern vs legion, they work great together and can compliment eachother.

No, just as Vendettas are the standard for fliers, wave serpents are the new standard for transports. They exist and some people will have them, so they are the new measuring stick. I can't participate in 40K without waveserpents, so they can not be ignored.

That's subjective. And again, the intent was to contrast and compare to other units in the new dex, not cherry pick something good that other codex's could field in a game and then cherry pick the context in which it's raping said squad. You can tear apart any unit that way.

"oh you think thunderhammer stormshield terminators are good? Well my vindicator always rolls a hit on scatter and it will totally always have los because I control reality and you'll totally fail all your invuls and as such thunderhammer terminators are bad, never take them"

Martel732 wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
Deep striking can be incredibly useful, especially in an edition where a deployment type invovles short table edges. And either way, using a wave serpent as a benchmark of a unit is more depressing than useful. Using the marine dex as a metric, I think out of the many elite choices they're pretty good for the points. I also think it will always be stern vs legion, they work great together and can compliment eachother.

No, just as Vendettas are the standard for fliers, wave serpents are the new standard for transports. They exist and some people will have them, so they are the new measuring stick. I can't participate in 40K without waveserpents, so they can not be ignored.

Problem with comparing rhinos to waveserpents-one is triple the cost of the other.

But eight times as efficacious.

Martel732 wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
Deep striking can be incredibly useful, especially in an edition where a deployment type invovles short table edges. And either way, using a wave serpent as a benchmark of a unit is more depressing than useful. Using the marine dex as a metric, I think out of the many elite choices they're pretty good for the points. I also think it will always be stern vs legion, they work great together and can compliment eachother.

No, just as Vendettas are the standard for fliers, wave serpents are the new standard for transports. They exist and some people will have them, so they are the new measuring stick. I can't participate in 40K without waveserpents, so they can not be ignored.

Depends who you play and how competitive your meta is of course. That said, there are still a ton of situations in which the Legion would be good, they don't *only* have to destroy transports.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
Deep striking can be incredibly useful, especially in an edition where a deployment type invovles short table edges. And either way, using a wave serpent as a benchmark of a unit is more depressing than useful. Using the marine dex as a metric, I think out of the many elite choices they're pretty good for the points. I also think it will always be stern vs legion, they work great together and can compliment eachother.

No, just as Vendettas are the standard for fliers, wave serpents are the new standard for transports. They exist and some people will have them, so they are the new measuring stick. I can't participate in 40K without waveserpents, so they can not be ignored.

Problem with comparing rhinos to waveserpents-one is triple the cost of the other.

Well it seems Kelly's 4th edition godmode is back then, Skimmerspam has returned in a different format.

I was hoping for ap3. But ignoores cover is nice. But I think people are missing the fact the SGt can take a combie grav and fire all 3 shots.

Really, I'm not looking for them to be clearly superior, I'm just happy that they are balanced enough with other elites units that there's at least room to discuss whether or not they are worth it.

I just wanted them to be a valid choice. IT makes me happy they are.

No, LoD are legit. Use them to tie up annoying things.

Martel732 wrote:
No, LoD are legit. Use them to tie up annoying things.

Sternguard are just better as a "You there. Die now." sort of unit.

The 2+ poison ammo make a lot of annoying gak go away.

I'm glad of the LotD being even quasi-viable now. I always wanted to convert some, but couldn't justify doing so at their silly high points cost.