Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Chapter Master Damnd, of the Legion of the Damned, is a figure that inspires fear and awe in the hearts and minds of men and their enemies alike. Wielding the ancient relic, the Sword of Silent Denial, said to be forged from the casing of the letter the emperor wrote to Magnus informing him that he was not permitted to harvest the blood of imperial citizens for his cocktail party. This weapon, gifted to Damnd since the final fight of the Fire Hawks, can rend the very soul, or lack there of, from any grazed by the blade.



Chapter Master Damnd 200 pts HQ

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv 7 5 4 4 4 5 4 10 3++



Wargear

Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak grenades, Power armour



Chapter Relic

Sword of silent denial



Warlord Trait

Storm of Fire



Special Rules

A Damning Denial, Eternal Warrior, Aid Unlooked for, Fear, Flaming projectiles, slow and purposeful, unyeilding spectors,We Are Legion, Indepedant Character, The Fears that People Have, Fearless



We Are Legion

Legion of the Damned Squad are scoring troop choices for you. Damnd may only join Legion of the Damned Squads, and may join them even though independant characters normally cannot.



The Fears that people Have: Non legion of the damned models within 12" of Damnd have their leadership reduced by 3.



A Damning Denial: If Chapter Master Damnd is slain in melee combat, including a challenge, he gets a free hit with any melee weapon he has available on the model that slay him.



Sword of silent Denial

Stength: User +2, AP 2, Melee, Soulblaze, Master Crafted, The terror from within



The Terror from within: Models that take one or more unsaved wounds from the sword of silent denial must take a leadership test. If they fail, they take wounds equal to the amount they failed by, with no saves of any type allowed.

Cool idea. Wildly undercosted.
is the LD test on 2d6 i assume? seems really really powerful

The fears that people have can be brought into line, make units use their lowest leadership, rather than their highest, and then give them fear.

Scoring is fine.

EW is worth a lot of points, and is not needed, everyone wants to make their character a special, unkillable snowflake, but in reality, this isnt the case, either raise his points accordingly (+30), or drop it

He has a AP 2 relic blade that doesnt make him use both hands as well, at WS 7..so 6 attacks on the charge. No.
Make it similar to the new relic from the C:SM codex,

Needs to be WAAAAAAYYYYY more than 200pts.

-Unlocks a new unit as a troops choice? Check.
-Solid invuln save on multi-wound character? Check.
-Eternal Warrior? Check.
-Good strength and AP2 CCW? Check.
-Debuffs enemy in a not insignificant way? Check.
-Can essentially ID mutli wound models? Check.

There's nothing this character can't do. Oh, and he's WS7, just to be sure.

He's basically the equivalent of a chapter master with the sword and shield relics, which would bring him up to 200+, without the ability to unlock LotD troops, leadership debuffs, pseudo instant death, and WS7. Oh, and he doesn't suffer the drawback of losing an attack like his counterpart would using the shield.

Significant nerfs needed, or an absurd price tag.

Hmmm, is he too cheap?

Which would be preferable, a points increase or reducing some things?

I was basing him on Lysander, which is why he had eternal warrior. I thought he was a little less good though, with the having to start in reserve and slow and purposeful etc. I guess I misjudged it.

Okay, lets fix this guy! Thanks for the feedback.

I don't have the new codex, so I'm kinda going off of some old numbers I know, rough estimates from info gathered across a few sources, and gut instinct, but he feels like a 300pts character.

He's got the durability of a lot of beaty characters with a 3++ (in a fight with top character, armour doesn't factor in much), can't be ID'd, has 5 attacks base with S6 AP2, master crafted and soul blaze at WS7. That combo is nothing to sneeze at, as it will easily wound just about anything, and ignore all armour. He also gets a re-roll, and is a higher WS than most MEQ characters and goes toe to toe with Eldar-esque characters. Right, and he can pseudo ID other characters, by entirely bypassing the ID rule, which means he can punk a lot of other characters without breaking a sweat.

If he was just that with nothing else going for him, I'd recommend he be between 250-275pts. Considering that's the bracket for really beaty characters, he'd fit right in.

But, he has a relatively strong leadership debuff ability, and the ability to make LotD scoring, which apparently in the new codex are actually somewhat reasonable. Likely better troop choices than normal tac marines.

So now he's a force multiplier and absolute beat stick.

Basically, I'm leaning with something in the 325pts range, but someone with the new codex in hand can correct me. I'm assuming also that a chapter master with the two relics (the cool sword and EW shield) bring the cost up to 200pts, and going from there.

My philophy; if your character is more than 250pts, he has too much going on.

I would drop him to a normal Chapter Master's statline, give him either a MC S: User, AP: 2 sword, or a boost to strength but at AP3, so that he doesn't have the best of both worlds in close combat. EW is actually kinda fluffy, so I can let it stay. Remove the terror from within rule on the sword entirely.

Then I'd entirely remove his leadership debuff thing, and give him fear. The ability is fluffy and not exactly powerful, so its a slight buff.

Then I'd finally make LotD scoring, instead of troops choices. Frankly, I also think that he shouldn't be allowed to be your warlord, forcing you to bring a normal, real, character as your warlord. Their fluff kinda makes it so that they don't stick around long, so even scoring is actually iffy and not really fluffy.

If you want him to make LotD a little better and fluffy, make him grant them some sort of bonus, like Pedro. Granting +1 attack in 12" is a nice buff, if they stay as unscoring elite slots.

He already has fear, as he's Legion of the Damned and they have fear themselves.

What second relic do you mean? He doesn't have a shield.

I like the leadership debuff but maybe it should be just -1 to leaderships, -3 is probably way overboard.

Remember that the Legion of the Damned stuff is mostly downside for him, he's slow and purposeful and has to deep strike.

The stat line should lose the extra WS yes, I agree. Which would take him down to regular chapter master stat line.

So if I push the leadership reduction bubble to -1 rather than -3, and do that.

I'd like to keep legion of the damned as scoring and troops as the whole point was to allow legion of the damned as an army.

My point about the shield was comparing his abilities to wargear you can purchase on a character normally. You know, as a baseline.

So I fond the points cost I was looking for; a Chapter Master with the Burning Blade (S+3, AP2, very close to your weapon) and Shield Eternal (grants EW and 3++, like your character) is base cost of 230pts.

Yeah...

Granted, you lose out on orbital bombardment, so we'll take off 15-20pts for about 215pts. That's with no other abilities besides his close combat beaty-ness.

We drop his WS down to 6, as he should be. He already has fear because I forgot LotD have that as default, we drop the whole negative leadership modifier in its entirety, and we lose the special rule on his sword forcing leadership tests for wounds. Just leave it at soul blaze and master crafted.

He's now a 235pts-ish character with the weapon's special rules added on to his 215pts-ish base.

Now you want scoring LotD. Sure, we'll make him 260pts; 25pts seems reasonable to make another unit a troops choice.

If you wan't to give him another buff, and a reasonable one, make it so that the unit he's attached to is granted relentless, instead of SnP. Call him 270pts.

Though I'd personally rather see his sword become either S: User AP2, or S: +2 AP3, which could bring him down 250pts.

Did he want -scoring- Legion? Or -Troops- Legion?

As the latter would mean an army of guys with a 3++...

 curran12 wrote:
Did he want -scoring- Legion? Or -Troops- Legion?

As the latter would mean an army of guys with a 3++...

Troops. I suggested doing away with the whole thing, or doing just scoring, but he seems to want a full army of them.

Granted, they still die just as easy to anything AP4 and worse, and cost twice as much. I dunno, they were pretty awful in 5th.

 Blacksails wrote:
My point about the shield was comparing his abilities to wargear you can purchase on a character normally. You know, as a baseline.

So I fond the points cost I was looking for; a Chapter Master with the Burning Blade (S+3, AP2, very close to your weapon) and Shield Eternal (grants EW and 3++, like your character) is base cost of 230pts.

Yeah...

Granted, you lose out on orbital bombardment, so we'll take off 15-20pts for about 215pts. That's with no other abilities besides his close combat beaty-ness.

We drop his WS down to 6, as he should be. He already has fear because I forgot LotD have that as default, we drop the whole negative leadership modifier in its entirety, and we lose the special rule on his sword forcing leadership tests for wounds. Just leave it at soul blaze and master crafted.

He's now a 235pts-ish character with the weapon's special rules added on to his 215pts-ish base.

Now you want scoring LotD. Sure, we'll make him 260pts; 25pts seems reasonable to make another unit a troops choice.

If you wan't to give him another buff, and a reasonable one, make it so that the unit he's attached to is granted relentless, instead of SnP. Call him 270pts.

Though I'd personally rather see his sword become either S: User AP2, or S: +2 AP3, which could bring him down 250pts.

Shouldn't we be taking points off for his disadvantages too though? Like *Has* to deep strike, and slow and purposeful?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 curran12 wrote:
Did he want -scoring- Legion? Or -Troops- Legion?

As the latter would mean an army of guys with a 3++...

Sure, but not exactly many of them right?

SnP is a bit of a drawback, but when you consider that having to deep strike and getting a re-roll on that means you can start wherever you want and shoot heavy weapons upon arrival. Sure, you're slower afterwards, but you get to pick exactly where you want to come in.

Kind of a wash really.

 Reeniee wrote:


Shouldn't we be taking points off for his disadvantages too though? Like *Has* to deep strike, and slow and purposeful?

Those are fake disadvantages.They do very, very little to limit how he plays and in fact, gives him some side benefits, i.e. shooting heavy weapons on the move.

Those are fake disadvantages.

Aren't they all though?

Overall, another speshul snowflake.

Does he pass out candy to children and befriend all animals?

Because he's so underpriced he may as well do all that and come with a free bag of chips.

My recommended changes:

Chapter Master Damnd 205 points HQ
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv 6 5 4 4 4 5 4 10 3++

Wargear
Boltgun, Frag and Krak grenades, Power armour

Chapter Relic
Sword of Silent Denial

Warlord Trait
Storm of Fire

Special Rules
A Damning Denial, Aid Unlooked for, Fear, Flaming projectiles, Slow and Purposeful, Unyeilding Apectors, We Are Legion, Indepedant Character, The Fears that People Have, Fearless, Eternal Warrior

We Are Legion
Legion of the Damned Squad are scoring. Damnd may only join Legion of the Damned Squads, and may join them even though independant characters normally cannot.

The Fears that people Have
Non legion of the damned models (friend or foe) within 12" of Damnd have their leadership reduced by 1.

A Damning Denial
If Chapter Master Damnd is slain in melee combat, including a challenge, he gets a free hit with any melee weapon he has available on the model that slays him.

Sword of silent Denial
Stength: User, AP 2, Melee, Soulblaze, Master Crafted, The Terror from Within*

*The Terror from Within: Models that suffer one or more unsaved wounds from the sword of silent denial must take a leadership test. If they fail, they take wounds equal to the amount they failed by, with no saves of any type allowed.


----

I left Eternal Warrior on, because if Lysander has it, why doesn't the leader of the Legion of the Damned? (Though IMO Calgar and Lysander should not have that rule...)

Or I would drop Eternal Warrior, and maybe give WS7 back as the Damned Sergeant has +1 WS for no reason too.